PearlHowardman Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 Who said they need a "statewide fan base"? Well, if it's going to be called "New York State University" I would presume that SUNY would want a school/sports program that everyone in New York State will support. Putting this flagship program in Buffalo means it would appeal to only about 1/4 of NYS geography and about 1/10 of the state population. Put it in Albany! ...or Binghamton! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 Well, if it's going to be called "New York State University" I would presume that SUNY would want a school/sports program that everyone in New York State will support. Putting this flagship program in Buffalo means it would appeal to only about 1/4 of NYS geography and about 1/10 of the state population. Put it in Albany! ...or Binghamton! a) no, anyone that thinks they are shooting for 100% support in state is missing the point b) if they start winning, that will be what makes the biggest difference. the name change would just be a little extra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 (edited) Well, if it's going to be called "New York State University" I would presume that SUNY would want a school/sports program that everyone in New York State will support. Putting this flagship program in Buffalo means it would appeal to only about 1/4 of NYS geography and about 1/10 of the state population. Put it in Albany! ...or Binghamton! Except that only Buffalo has D-1 football. You can't be a flagship without football! By the way here is that interactive map showing what areas follow what teams. While SU dominates the center of the state it's weak at either ends. PTR Edited April 9, 2013 by PromoTheRobot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 (edited) Except that only Buffalo has D-1 football. You can't be a flagship without football! By the way here is that interactive map showing what areas follow what teams. While SU dominates the center of the state it's weak at either ends. PTR and honestly, its about incremental growth, and building a brand. not just opening a floodgate. this isnt about stealing existing hardcore fans from syracuse - thats not going to happen wherever its located. its about making it easier to pick people off slowly but surely. A kid in poughkeepsie that grows up with NYSU winning, will potentially be a fan. a kid that grows up there with UB winning is less likely. the key will still be winning. Edited April 9, 2013 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PearlHowardman Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 SU is just too big. Worse, SU is right smack-dab in the middle of NYS! "New York State University" in Buffalo will never grow a fan base or appeal to many people east of Rochester. I guarantee it! Eastern NYS down to NYC-LI will never follow a "State" team 300-450 miles away especially with SU right in the middle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 SU is just too big. Worse, SU is right smack-dab in the middle of NYS! "New York State University" in Buffalo will never grow a fan base or appeal to many people east of Rochester. I guarantee it! Eastern NYS down to NYC-LI will never follow a "State" team 300-450 miles away especially with SU right in the middle. they may not in large masses but id also bet New york state university has more marketing potential statewide (and across state lines) than University at Buffalo. it doesnt have to be the number 1 most popular school in every county of the state to be a successful rebranding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 Typical Buffalo fear of change going on in this thread. The fact remains that re-branding WORKS. If it didn't, it wouldn't happen all the time. Whether we want to admit it or not, marketing folks (Ahem RUSS BRANDON) know how to use even the smallest cues to manipulate your thought process and hope to capture your impulses. It's why grocery stores are laid out the way they are. It's why commercials are so annoying and repetitive. Marketing works, and oftentimes subconsciously. Period. Then UB should just rename itself "The Ohio State University" and be done with it. People are freaking out because UB has an AD bent on raising the level of the programs. He fired a bunch of coaches who were just puttering along. He's funding a new fieldhouse by creating a new club section at UB stadium, much like the ones at RWS. He hires an untested coach but one with marquee name value and ties to an elite program. If he fails it won't be from playing it safe. But like JM57 said, Buffalo people can't handle change. PTR The generic renaming of a school isn't real change. If you want more recruits to come (look, top athletic recruits are never coming to UB) or applications to rise--get a better sports program. Why bump up to Div to be a doormat? How attactive is that? and honestly, its about incremental growth, and building a brand. not just opening a floodgate. this isnt about stealing existing hardcore fans from syracuse - thats not going to happen wherever its located. its about making it easier to pick people off slowly but surely. A kid in poughkeepsie that grows up with NYSU winning, will potentially be a fan. a kid that grows up there with UB winning is less likely. the key will still be winning. I don't see why. Just because UB changed it's name, he's no more likely to have an attachment to this distant school. People making the analogy to Ohio State or Penn State ignore the fact that those campuses are, overwhelmingly, the dominant locations of those states' public college systems. UB is just not that kind of dominant campus--not by application numbers, size, and quality of education. It is rapidly being ecclipsed by Binghamton and Stony Brook. UB deciding to pass itself off, suddenly, as NYSU" will fool no one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 (edited) The generic renaming of a school isn't real change. If you want more recruits to come (look, top athletic recruits are never coming to UB) or applications to rise--get a better sports program. Why bump up to Div to be a doormat? How attactive is that? I don't see why. Just because UB changed it's name, he's no more likely to have an attachment to this distant school. People making the analogy to Ohio State or Penn State ignore the fact that those campuses are, overwhelmingly, the dominant locations of those states' public college systems. UB is just not that kind of dominant campus--not by application numbers, size, and quality of education. It is rapidly being ecclipsed by Binghamton and Stony Brook. UB deciding to pass itself off, suddenly, as NYSU" will fool no one. i think you have to look at this as going hand in hand with aggressive actions, ideally, to improve the entire system - not just buying a new sign out front and replacing the sweatshirts in the student center. Things like cleaning out the programs, and building the new facilities, etc... the name itself isnt the big change if this is going to work, its just a small part of an overall package. you start the snowball rolling and hopefully it picks up steam. no promise it works but i think it works better under the flag of NYSU, instead of UB. again - name change cant be all that happens. name change is about incremental steps not opening a floodgate. so the kid in poughkeepsie is more able to identify with this school representing his state, than he is a school representing some city hundreds of miles away. doesnt mean he will, but that i think itll be more likely. Edited April 9, 2013 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 It would certainly help recruiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 Until 1991, they were all called "State University of New York" @ <put your favorite city>. Then in 1992, they decide to rename them as University at <Put your favorite city> . SUNY Albany (Alma mater) sounded much more cooler than University at Albany.... So, the four university centers all use the "at?" I always figured that it was named University at Buffalo, because even though it was SUNY Buffalo and I used to see it called SUNYAB meaning at for years, everybody in WNY still called it UB (because if was the University of Buffalo as a private university up until about 1962. Much like I still call the stadium Rich Stadium). So, I figured SUNY just said OK, if they're going to call it UB, then we'll make it University at Buffalo, so at least it'll be right. That is not what happened? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 i think you have to look at this as going hand in hand with aggressive actions, ideally, to improve the entire system - not just buying a new sign out front and replacing the sweatshirts in the student center. Things like cleaning out the programs, and building the new facilities, etc... the name itself isnt the big change if this is going to work, its just a small part of an overall package. you start the snowball rolling and hopefully it picks up steam. no promise it works but i think it works better under the flag of NYSU, instead of UB. again - name change cant be all that happens. name change is about incremental steps not opening a floodgate. so the kid in poughkeepsie is more able to identify with this school representing his state, than he is a school representing some city hundreds of miles away. doesnt mean he will, but that i think itll be more likely. How does the name change improve the whole system? A school like Stony Brook is on the rise and I don't see them asking to take Stony Brook out of their name. If anything, they are pushing that("Stony Brook University") as their brand to separate themselves from the SUNY mentality----the opposite of what UB is trying to do. And we will have to agree to disagree that the kid will be fooled by UB's name change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 How does the name change improve the whole system? A school like Stony Brook is on the rise and I don't see them asking to take Stony Brook out of their name. If anything, they are pushing that("Stony Brook University") as their brand to separate themselves from the SUNY mentality----the opposite of what UB is trying to do. And we will have to agree to disagree that the kid will be fooled by UB's name change. Schools become well known not because of sports but because of academics. Quick - if your kid was good at science got into UC-San Diego or Louisville, where would you send him or her? Of course, you'd most likely send him to UCSD because it's a far better school regardless of the fact that Louisville is better at sports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 Schools become well known not because of sports but because of academics. Quick - if your kid was good at science got into UC-San Diego or Louisville, where would you send him or her? Of course, you'd most likely send him to UCSD because it's a far better school regardless of the fact that Louisville is better at sports. The two definitely feed each other. Synergy and the like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 Depends which conference that San Diego school is in. Is it the one where Steve Fisher is or was the hoops coach or the one that Jim Harbaugh was the football coach? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 Schools become well known not because of sports but because of academics. Quick - if your kid was good at science got into UC-San Diego or Louisville, where would you send him or her? Of course, you'd most likely send him to UCSD because it's a far better school regardless of the fact that Louisville is better at sports. I agree that for the academically talented student, the best schools for him or her are well known. But I would argue that many "popular" schools are so because of their sports success. Even academically sound schools benefit from top sports programs. I would guess that if, for example, Michigan wasn't a perennial football (and basketball) powerhouse, far fewer students from outside of the state would apply. Same could be said for Notre Dame, Texas, NC, maybe Duke. Stanford could stand alone on its academics. Without sports, I would think Louisville's out of state applicants would number close to zero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homey D. Clown Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 Maybe they could get Russ Brandon to shank the school's fans out of one home game a year to Hamilton and call it a "home Game".... he is sooo good at convincing people it is the only way the program could be viable.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 I agree that for the academically talented student, the best schools for him or her are well known. But I would argue that many "popular" schools are so because of their sports success. Even academically sound schools benefit from top sports programs. I would guess that if, for example, Michigan wasn't a perennial football (and basketball) powerhouse, far fewer students from outside of the state would apply. Same could be said for Notre Dame, Texas, NC, maybe Duke. Stanford could stand alone on its academics. Without sports, I would think Louisville's out of state applicants would number close to zero. agreed. the two halves certainly help feed off each other. Extra national attention equates to extra applications which in theory should be a rising tide for everyones boat at the university. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 I wonder how many more applicants Florida Gulf Coast is going to get after all the free advertising they just had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endless Ike Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 You're off a few ways here: 1. UB doesn't have the only law school. Albany has one, and a good one. Albany Law School is a branch of Union College, it is private, and not affiliated with the SUNY system in anyway. Also, describing it as a "good one" strains credulity. It's a 3rd or even 4th tier school Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endless Ike Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 (edited) SU is just too big. Worse, SU is right smack-dab in the middle of NYS! "New York State University" in Buffalo will never grow a fan base or appeal to many people east of Rochester. I guarantee it! Eastern NYS down to NYC-LI will never follow a "State" team 300-450 miles away especially with SU right in the middle. The difference that you're failing to understand is that there are a lot of people who don't follow college football because they don't have a team. Alot of them didn't go to college. I'm more likely to root for UB than Syracuse, because UB is a public school, my money supports it, and I'm therefore a part of it. Syracuse is private. I don't care that I live much closer to Syracuse than Buffalo. Renaming it NYSU would make it clear that this is EVERYONE's school. Frankly, I think its kind of sad when adults root for private universities to which they have absolutely no affiliation or relationship. Yes, that includes ND and Duke for all you subway alums. Its why you get celebrities who dropped out of high school showing up at university sporting events. Because texans root for UT football, Kentuckians root for UK basketball, and New Yorkers should root for New York whatever. Obviously it takes time to build a following, but its certainly worth exploring. It would raise the profile. And there are plenty of Flagship Universities located far away from their states primary population centers. Edited April 10, 2013 by Endless Ike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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