Hackett / Fitz Connection

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Most reports indicate just 500k in guaranteed money for Jackson, but I'm guessing Hackett has decided to keep him on the roster at this point. The Fitzpatrick situation is completely unclear.

 

Thanks for the info on Fitz, I thought I saw an interview saying "Wall Street".

 

I think that would be nuts to keep Fitz, TJax and a rookie. If Hackett has, in fact, made that decision then they should get out a knife and cut Fitz clean before March 12.

[NoSaint]

 

 

Thanks for the info on Fitz, I thought I saw an interview saying "Wall Street".

 

I think that would be nuts to keep Fitz, TJax and a rookie. If Hackett has, in fact, made that decision then they should get out a knife and cut Fitz clean before March 12.

 

Problem is we don't know if we get a rookie til late April, even if they want one

[Hapless Bills Fan]

It's an interesting situation.

 

The new league year starts in 8 days at which time Fitz is due a $3 million roster bonus.

 

Unless he restructures??

 

Which is of course, why time is to his advantage. He can bet that they'd like to keep him enough to pay him the bonus "on spec", in which case he's gotten a very good salary for the year and can afford to chase down a low-budget opportunity if he's cut. Or if he's cut before the 12th, he'll be first in line for a team wanting a capable backup QB and willing to pay a bit to get one (SF? AZ?)

 

Financially, I don't think it's in Fitzpatrick's favor to restructure. His only motivation to do so would be if he wants a shot to compete for a starting job more than he wants $$, and he believes he'll get a fair shot here.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

The Bills could also pay Fitz that $3 million roster bonus with the thinking that the act would engender a reciprocal act of good faith on Fitz' part in making his contract more team friendly.

 

It's really unclear to me what's going to happen with Fitz.

[reddogblitz]

After another 8 years with the Bills and sporting 2 Super Bowl rings I suspect to see Fitz retire to a Jim Kelly type role with the Bills. PR/Hanger on/Chearleader.

[ny33]

After another 8 years with the Bills and sporting 2 Super Bowl rings I suspect to see Fitz retire to a Jim Kelly type role with the Bills. PR/Hanger on/Chearleader.

 

Fitzpatrick has more ties to the Arizona/Boston areas, and isn't beloved by the fan base like Kelly. I highly doubt Fitzpatrick continues to be involved with the organization, and he can be far more successful elsewhere.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Just 2 Super Bowl rings for Fitz, reddog?

 

[Prickly Pete]

Fitzpatrick has more ties to the Arizona/Boston areas, and isn't beloved by the fan base like Kelly. I highly doubt Fitzpatrick continues to be involved with the organization, and he can be far more successful elsewhere.

 

Well, (since you are taking this seriously), you have to believe that if Fitz won 2 Super Bowls with the Bills, he would be pretty effin' beloved by the fan base here.

[ny33]

 

Well, (since you are taking this seriously), you have to believe that if Fitz won 2 Super Bowls with the Bills, he would be pretty effin' beloved by the fan base here.

 

Yeah, I missed the first part of that post.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

easily.......luck, wilson, kaep, ponder, rg3, dalton, cam all are making the seamless transition it's nowhere near as far fetched as it used to be that a 1st/2nd year qb has success.

 

So you see, it's very simple. In the 2012 draft, Luck, RGIII, and Wilson have had success. Brandon Weedon (drafted 33 picks ahead of Wilson) not so much.

In the 2011 draft, Cam Newton, Andy Dalton, and Colin Kaepernick have had success. Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder, and Jake Locker (taken 27 picks ahead of Dalton) not so much. In 2010, we're still awaiting any success Sam Bradford, Tim Tebow, Colt McCoy, and Jimmy Clausen might have.

 

(begin sarcasm)

All we have to do is figure out who, in this draft, is more like Wilson, Dalton, or Kaepernick and less like Weedon, Gabbert, Ponder, Locker, McCoy, and Clausen.

(end sarcasm)

 

I don't think the issue was whether a QB in general could have success as a rookie, but whether any of THIS YEAR's QB class are NFL ready.

Is there is a Wilson or a Dalton or all Locker, Ponder, McCoy and Clausen?

 

Gabbert and Locker being living proof that because a guy has a great PR machine, throws a bunch in college, and gets drafted in the top 10 picks of the first round, doesn't make him an NFL-capable starter.

 

None of the above to be construed as an argument against drafting a QB. You never hit the shot you don't take. It's just 1) need to be prepared to keep shooting if the first shot misses 2) there are worse things for a rookie QB than a year sitting on the bench, learning what it takes and getting hungry if he's not mentally ready to go - like getting thrown into the fray from Day 1 and having his confidence dented when he sucks and gets benched in favor of Hasselbeck or Fitz. (Note: not intended to compare Hasselbeck and Fitz)

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Problem is we don't know if we get a rookie til late April, even if they want one

 

Doesn't matter, to my way of thinking. All the QB will be learning a new offense this season. I thought it was a bit bogus by the end of the season, but there's actually some truth in the don't-dress-TJax argument that there aren't enough reps to give 3 QB quality time, esp. after training camp.

 

Given that, it makes no sense to keep two middle-aged journeyman QB who are pretty much known quantities on the roster. #2 should be a developmental prospect. If there isn't a rookie look for someone who might have promise and is odd-man-out, on the chopping block on a more talented roster, but someone who might be able to be developed.

 

If they have made up their mind to keep TJax, cut Fitz. It only makes sense to keep Fitz if you want him to compete with TJax for "who does best in the Hackett/Marrone system." TJax has had some success in a run-centric West Coast based system. Fitz at least has exposure to the West Coast terminology (opinion seems to vary on whether St Louis and Cincy were really running a West Coast offense), and as a pretty smart guy, can probably pick it up quickly. Who makes fewer mistakes, who syncs up with the new wideouts better.

 

Way I see it, anyway.

Edited March 5, 2013 by Hopeful

[xsoldier54]

Not to belabor the obvious but all this talk about cutting Fitz & drafting a "franchise" QB has to come down to this basic question: do you believe any QB in this draft is a real improvement over Fitz, who can come in & turn things around right now? If your answer is "no," then how in the world can you even think of getting rid of him? That's the heart of the matter. Or to put it another way, Fitz may not be very good, but are any of these guys better? I don't believe any of them are. The Bills are going to draft a QB. Whoever it is will have flaws & will need work, & to my eyes, none of them are anywhere near capable of coming in this year & turning things around.

I believe at least three or four of these guys would be an improvement over Fitz. I would take Smith, Barkley, Wilson or E.J. Manuel over Fitz in a heartbeat. Fitz just doesn't have it, period. Nice guy, terrible QB.

[Prickly Pete]

So you see, it's very simple. In the 2012 draft, Luck, RGIII, and Wilson have had success. Brandon Weedon (drafted 33 picks ahead of Wilson) not so much.

In the 2011 draft, Cam Newton, Andy Dalton, and Colin Kaepernick have had success. Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder, and Jake Locker (taken 27 picks ahead of Dalton) not so much. In 2010, we're still awaiting any success Sam Bradford, Tim Tebow, Colt McCoy, and Jimmy Clausen might have.

 

(begin sarcasm)

All we have to do is figure out who, in this draft, is more like Wilson, Dalton, or Kaepernick and less like Weedon, Gabbert, Ponder, Locker, McCoy, and Clausen.

(end sarcasm)

 

I don't think the issue was whether a QB in general could have success as a rookie, but whether any of THIS YEAR's QB class are NFL ready.

Is there is a Wilson or a Dalton or all Locker, Ponder, McCoy and Clausen?

 

Gabbert and Locker being living proof that because a guy has a great PR machine, throws a bunch in college, and gets drafted in the top 10 picks of the first round, doesn't make him an NFL-capable starter.

 

None of the above to be construed as an argument against drafting a QB. You never hit the shot you don't take. It's just 1) need to be prepared to keep shooting if the first shot misses 2) there are worse things for a rookie QB than a year sitting on the bench, learning what it takes and getting hungry if he's not mentally ready to go - like getting thrown into the fray from Day 1 and having his confidence dented when he sucks and gets benched in favor of Hasselbeck or Fitz. (Note: not intended to compare Hasselbeck and Fitz)

 

I think most people here understand all that. The point is, most don't want to sit through another year of Fitz. It's time to do something. Sure, they might eek out a couple more games this year with him, but it's clear that they are treading water with Fitz., and they can no longer sell fans the false hope he delivers. They really should have drafted a guy 2 years ago, but they didn't. They tried to build the team up around Fitz instead, but it's blown up in their face.

 

I don't know what else there is to say about Fitz that hasn't been discussed, ad nauseum.

 

Doesn't matter, to my way of thinking. All the QB will be learning a new offense this season. I thought it was a bit bogus by the end of the season, but there's actually some truth in the don't-dress-TJax argument that there aren't enough reps to give 3 QB quality time, esp. after training camp.

 

Given that, it makes no sense to keep two middle-aged journeyman QB who are pretty much known quantities on the roster. #2 should be a developmental prospect. If there isn't a rookie look for someone who might have promise and is odd-man-out, on the chopping block on a more talented roster, but someone who might be able to be developed.

 

If they have made up their mind to keep TJax, cut Fitz. It only makes sense to keep Fitz if you want him to compete with TJax for "who does best in the Hackett/Marrone system." TJax has had some success in a run-centric West Coast based system. Fitz at least has exposure to the West Coast terminology (opinion seems to vary on whether St Louis and Cincy were really running a West Coast offense), and as a pretty smart guy, can probably pick it up quickly. Who makes fewer mistakes, who syncs up with the new wideouts better.

 

Way I see it, anyway.

 

Sounds reasonable to me.

[thewildrabbit]

What I just don't get is that when Nix / Gailey came in everyone, and I mean everyone was defending their first year mistakes by stating that they need a year to analyze the players on the roster to determine who can play and who can't. Then they defended the 2nd year by stating that there simply isn't enough talent on the roster and it needs to take longer to bring in top talent. Ditto with the 3rd year. What a crock!

 

Now suddenly everyone thinks that because a few QB's came into the NFL last few years and had success by taking their teams to the playoffs, that any new QB the Bills draft is destined for that same outcome, they are not! It usually takes 3-4 years or more to develop a QB properly, which is exactly what happened with super bowl winning QB's Eli Manning, Drew Brees, Joe Flacco, Aaron Rodgers.

 

These new QB's having great success are not the norm. RG3, Russell Wilson, Cam Newton and even Tim Tebow had their offenses transformed to fit their play style in college. Look what happened to RG3 running the ball so much, very very serious knee injuries that he can't sustain every year or he will have a very short NFL career. Cam Newton had a tremendous rookie year stat wise, but fell very short win wise. All of those players can't continually run the ball every year or they will end up with injuries like RG3 / Mike Vick.

 

Andrew Luck is that once in a decade special player like John Elway that should have immediate success because of his outstanding talent. But even he needs a good surround cast of players to win a super bowl. The Bills bad luck to not suck as much as they should have, of if he had come out early the Bills would have gotten Cam Newton.

 

Lots of Bills fans here stating they don't want an Andy Dalton type QB, but that is exactly what the Bills want IMO. A young QB who has the tenacity to play hard, take hits and still make plays while he is developing. Face facts here, very few QB's come into the NFL and have the surrounding player talent / coaching talent on the offense that Joe Flacco has had. Dalton has one top WR and some half way decent talent on his team, but no where near the talent the wizard of OZ has built in Baltimore.

 

Do the Bills need a franchise QB...hell yeah! If they draft a QB this year will he be that player his first year, second year, third year? Probably not considering how badly Buddy Nix has failed to bring in top talent to a team starved for talent at almost every position but RB. But then considering the talent in this years crop of QB's, a new rookie QB may never succeed.

 

We fans don't know what Marrone will accomplish as the new Bills head coach in his first year. But I can tell you this, that O line still isn't ready for a rookie QB even with everyone on the line healthy. So unless the bills draft Alabama G Chance Warmack to replace Levitre if he leaves, or one of the 3 top LT's in the draft, that rookie QB will be running for his life, just like Fitz did in 2010.

 

I think everyone has forgotten what it was like to have Trent Edwards at QB. Called "captain check down" because he didn't want to throw an INT as he didn't trust his receivers and for good reason, where are they all now? That O line has been very bad since they traded away LT JP. In 2010 Nix / Gailey brought in players like FA RT Cornell Green in 2010 at 2 mill per, a player who was horribly bad! So bad that the Bills quietly benched him in week 5 and then then cut him in week 7.

 

That line is still not a top line despite the rep of giving up so few sacks because Fitz had the ability to get rid of ball so quickly, and he still took many hits after the ball was out in 1.5 seconds. Bills fans will see that right away with TJax or a rookie behind center. Frankly, IDGAD who the QB is this year as long as this new HC can produce a season equal to or better then Jauron / Gailey. So eff the idea of any QB in the first round. I'm hoping the Bills go WR, OT, G with that first pick at #8.

 

While you guys worry about who the starting QB is, I'll worry if this new HC can get it done with any QB.

[Prickly Pete]

 

While you guys worry about who the starting QB is, I'll worry if this new HC can get it done with any QB.

 

Those are both good things to worry about. But the coach I will give the benefit of a doubt, because he is new. The QB is still the same though, and we already know he sucks.

 

Get someone new in there.