San Jose Bills Fan Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Again, the Bills would have been a better team with fewer holes on the roster if they had kept Poz and Whitner. This in spite of the fact that neither player is all that great. The point: You CAN'T keep making holes in your lineup and then burning draft picks to fill those holes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Again, the Bills would have been a better team with fewer holes on the roster if they had kept Poz and Whitner. This in spite of the fact that neither player is all that great. The point: You CAN'T keep making holes in your lineup and then burning draft picks to fill those holes. Maybe. Suppose we signed Ellerbe or Kruger with the money we'd have spent on Poz? And as far as Whitner goes, I think he's better than he gets credit for around here, but is the $6+ mil/yr he was demanding really worth the difference in production between him and G Wilson? If we can signe Dwayne Bowe this off season b/c we let him walk is it worth it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 As I read the responses to the initial post I still beleive you have to sign and retain your top talent. Look at the snow ball effect in them letting Winfield walk. How many draft picks expended to replace him and he is still productive in Minnesota? Offensive lines are built on both talent and chemistry. Levitre is a valuable asset, he is a solid blocker and is versatile. There is a school of thought in the NFL that you don't pay a safety big money. Byrd has a nose for the ball and has good skills in coverage and tackling. As much as I love Byrd picking off passes (a much needed asset), having a solid line up front is a bigger need. If the Bills do have $20 million under the cap, sign both, dump non-productive vets (we pretty much know who) and build the core of the team through the draft. If they can't...then keep Levitre and bid Byrd a fond farewell and go thru the Winfield process again. That last part of the last sentence is sarcasm. Isn't it . Isn't it ? Isn't IT!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Maybe. Suppose we signed Ellerbe or Kruger with the money we'd have spent on Poz? And as far as Whitner goes, I think he's better than he gets credit for around here, but is the $6+ mil/yr he was demanding really worth the difference in production between him and G Wilson? If we can signe Dwayne Bowe this off season b/c we let him walk is it worth it? I guess the silver lining for sucking the last two years is that the loss of Poz and Whitner didn't hurt us to the point of keeping us from the playoffs and that as a result their loss wasn't really as noticeable. Thus replacing Poz and Whitner 3 years after their departures (they both left after the 2010 season) ends up not being as big a deal as it could have been because the Bills sucked. It's still bad practice to lose good players (and create roster holes) and it's something Nix said he would try not to let happen on his watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitro Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 SI.com has average safety salary $950,000 and offensive lineman $1,270,000. spotrac.com has Byrd making $1,070,000 (base and bonus) and Levitre at $965,000 (base and bonus). It would not be unreasonable to start with an offer of $1,600,000 to both which would be a higher base but lower bonus front end. Let the agents and the Bills management team work out the details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 SI.com has average safety salary $950,000 and offensive lineman $1,270,000. spotrac.com has Byrd making $1,070,000 (base and bonus) and Levitre at $965,000 (base and bonus). It would not be unreasonable to start with an offer of $1,600,000 to both which would be a higher base but lower bonus front end. Let the agents and the Bills management team work out the details. So your suggested strategy is to insult them both with lowball offers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 SI.com has average safety salary $950,000 and offensive lineman $1,270,000. spotrac.com has Byrd making $1,070,000 (base and bonus) and Levitre at $965,000 (base and bonus). It would not be unreasonable to start with an offer of $1,600,000 to both which would be a higher base but lower bonus front end. Let the agents and the Bills management team work out the details. Laughable. If your object is to make sure Byrd and Levitre refuse all future calls, this would be a great start. It would also signal to all prospective free agents that the Bills are a joke. Thankfully they know at least a bit better. Simply put, the scenario you've outlined is not how NFL free agency works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 (edited) I guess the silver lining for sucking the last two years is that the loss of Poz and Whitner didn't hurt us to the point of keeping us from the playoffs and that as a result their loss wasn't really as noticeable. Thus replacing Poz and Whitner 3 years after their departures (they both left after the 2010 season) ends up not being as big a deal as it could have been because the Bills sucked. It's still bad practice to lose good players (and create roster holes) and it's something Nix said he would try not to let happen on his watch. I don't think that's necessarily a fair assessment of the situation or fair interpretation of what I'm saying. I'm simply pointing out that giving those guys contracts above their value may have been helpful in the short term but could have prevented us from making other moves both then and now. Could we have gotten Mario if we retained them? maybe, maybe not. Would we have made the playoffs if we had them on the roster? doubt it. Would we be better off right now if we had Poz and his $7 mil cap hit on the roster right now? I'm inclined to doubt it. Edited February 1, 2013 by Rob's House Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 I don't think that's necessarily a fair assessment of the situation or fair interpretation of what I'm saying. I'm simply pointing out that giving those guys contracts above their value may have been helpful in the short term but could have prevented us from making other moves both then and now. Could we have gotten Mario if we retained them? maybe, maybe not. Would be have made the playoffs if we had them on the roster? doubt it. Would we be better off right now if we had Poz and his $7 mil cap hit on the roster right now? I'm inclined to doubt it. Let me say in rebuttal: Whitner was named to the Pro Bowl this year. Now we all know he's not a great player but look what happens when he has talent around him. Poz is a darn good linebacker who like most starting MLBs (including Patrick Willis) gets exploited in coverage a bit. Point is these guys are quality players and if we had a competent DC last year and would have retained these players, maybe people here wouldn't be advocating burning our #8 pick on a "run-stuffing linebacker." There are exceptions of course but generally it's really bad for team building to not retain your good players. Bringing the discussion full circle, if the Bills have to overpay a bit to retain Levitre and Byrd, I'm all for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Let me say in rebuttal: Whitner was named to the Pro Bowl this year. Now we all know he's not a great player but look what happens when he has talent around him. Poz is a darn good linebacker who like most starting MLBs (including Patrick Willis) gets exploited in coverage a bit. Point is these guys are quality players and if we had a competent DC last year and would have retained these players, maybe people here wouldn't be advocating burning our #8 pick on a "run-stuffing linebacker." There are exceptions of course but generally it's really bad for team building to not retain your good players. Bringing the discussion full circle, if the Bills have to overpay a bit to retain Levitre and Byrd, I'm all for it. All I'm saying is I think we can get more with the cap room than what we'd have gotten from them. Whitner's good, but G Wilson (contrary to popular belief) isn't a huge dropoff there. Poz would be an improvement over Shepard, but he's still not much; he's a liability in coverage and no more than an average run stuffer. Paying top money for average talent isn't a good way to build a winner. If we paid them what they wanted to stay we'd have $14 million less to spend this year. I think we can get a lot more value for that money in FA than what we'd have gotten out of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 If we paid them what they wanted to stay we'd have $14 million less to spend this year. I think we can get a lot more value for that money in FA than what we'd have gotten out of them. We shall see. Most free agents are overpriced. That's why I think that unless there's a clear upgrade, that you're better off keeping your own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 (edited) Hopeful and Dibs which to believe neither of these sets of numbers seems to add up, - he gets an extra $3 mil bot only costs $.45???? You have ESPN and the Buffalo News .... It will not cost the Bills any more to cut him than to keep him on the team. Actually, they will save almost a half million dollars. Fitzpatrick is due a $3 million roster bonus in March. If he gets cut before that bonus is paid, then he will count $10 million against the Bills’ salary cap in 2013. That's a lot, but not so much that he will have to be retained. If Fitzpatrick is on the roster, his cap number for 2013 will be $10.45 million. Fitzpatrick's base salaries going forward are $4.25 million in 2013, $4.35 million in 2014, $7.2 million in 2015, $8.75 million in 2016 and $9.45 million in 2017. http://blogs.buffalo...on-of-deal.html That's what I was under the impression of(above red)....however the ESPN article you linked states "Buffalo will save $4.45 million in cap space"....I am still confused as to where they get that number from($4.45M cap saving). Edited February 1, 2013 by Dibs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitro Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 So your suggested strategy is to insult them both with lowball offers? To a prior post I was asked "What do you think is a reasonable ceiling above which you're not willing to pay? " The premise was $20 million in cap. I am not privy to how they want to structure the teams salaries. There are other free agents on the team to sign and draft choices. My estimate was base only , no bonuses and let them work from there. I made a simple guess. Laughable. If your object is to make sure Byrd and Levitre refuse all future calls, this would be a great start. It would also signal to all prospective free agents that the Bills are a joke. Thankfully they know at least a bit better. Simply put, the scenario you've outlined is not how NFL free agency works. If you are trying to a respond to a question, you answer in the best possible way. I low balled my estimate. I do not know where the Bills rank them against their peers. This is why the answer to a question was a conservative one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benderbender Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 I own a Byrd jersey. I think he will only improve and it would be best to sign him. That being said, he's no Ed Reed. Sign Levitre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albany c2 Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 The only way the Bills will keep Byrd is with the franchise tag. He has 18 INTs and 10 FF through 4 seasons. I have a good feeling a team is going to pony up Polamalu-type money for him that we just won't be able to match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 Then franchise him... Look....this is a business.....franchise Byrd......resign Levitre....and work out the numbers of a new deal with Byrd after that...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 Let me say this about that - Levitre, Anderson, and Byrd will all be Buffalo Bills this season... GO BILLSSS!!!! 19 and 0 baby!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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