T master Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 I don't think there is enough money in Buffalo to sign all of those players , but i guess it doesn't hurt to dream !! We may be able to get a couple of them which could help out a ton !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ny33 Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 The idea of my OP was to have an intelligent discussion on how to take away Brady's weapons. I believe the reason why Brady is good in the Patriots system is because he possesses those qualities. In no way does that make him the same QB as Manning or Rodgers. Brady is not the same down the field passer that Brees, Manning, or Rodgers are. Brady completes most of his passes underneath and beats you deep when you get tired of being bludgeoned to death with all the short passes and runs. But no feel free to say he is not a system quarterback and while your at it neither is Matt Cassel. Let's call the Patriots bluff. If they are so enamored with Mallett then they won't trade him. If they decide he is movable as they did Drew Bledsoe then we will benefit & the Patriots will be without their #2 QB. If they decide he is movable, and trade him to Buffalo, we'll probably have traded a second rounder for a mediocre QB. The guy's been on the roster long enough for the Patriots, and only the Patriots, to have a good idea of his capabilities. He is staying on that team until the last year of his contract at the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Cowlings Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Shouldn't we be discussing how to kill the Patriots? Looking at the 2013 Patriots free agents it's obvious the Patriots are vulnerable to mass defections at key positions of strength, and key positions where they are weak. The Bills would be wise to target the Patriots at their core. Here is what I'm proposing: #1 Offer our 2nd & 3rd round pick in 2014 for Ryan Mallett #2 Sign Wes Welker WR #3 Sign Julian Edelman WR #4 Sign Sebastian Vollmer T #5 Sign Aqib Talib CB Now I know we aren't going to get all 5 of these guys, but the idea is we can make the Patriots weaker by: A - forcing them to pay more to retain their talent, B - taking their talent making them weaker and us stronger, & C - eliminating their depth at key positions QB, WR, T, CB while adding to ours. Here is my rationale further explained: Quarterback: Mallett IMO is a guy they have confidence in to step in for Brady much like Cassel did in 2008. At the very least Mallett should be a guy who could play backup in Buffalo and possibly be a strong starter at a Flacco level. Also such a move would weaken New England's depth and further stretch out their resources at QB. The worse case scenario if we were to acquire Mallett would be that he sucks and we'd lose a couple of draft picks that Nix was likely to miss on anyway. Furthermore the Bills aren't likely to get Geno Smith a QB many consider to be the #1 overall pick in the draft Wide Receiver: The Patriots have so many weapons, but many of them are Tight Ends. Edelman & Welker are slot receivers who do so much for New England underneath. Further more Welker has just set an NFL record 5 100 catch seasons. Welker will be 33 next season, but he hasn't shown any signs of slowing down. Eliminating these receivers and adding them to our roster would also free up space for Johnson. Offensive Tackle: The Bills could benefit from Vollmer who is better suited at RT. The Bills have zero rushing touchdowns rushing outside of their right guard. Vollmer is valuable asset and won't come cheap. He will likely be the #2 sought after T in FA outside of Jake Long. Cornerback: The Patriots #1 weakness has been at corner the past 5 years. Taking Talib would further deplete their secondary and allow the Bills to move away from the McGee & possibly make McKelvin expendable. Go Bills! No one wants to come to Buffalo. Why in the world would Wes Welker decide to end his career here? The only way to get anyone here is to really over pay for them-see Mario Williams. he to probably regrets the fact that he signed here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 That's what really scares me about this. How's Cassel done since he's left NE?? But I'd probably take the chance for a 2nd and 3rd in 2014 if you could pull that off. Welker I think is too old for the money he's going to likely get. Edelman and Talib part I like as those are two spots that need improvement though what we really need at WR is a guy with big guy with speed. Is Edelman really that or are we getting more of another SJ?? At RT we have two guys that are both decent, as I've said about almost any area of the team WR, LB line, etc, you don't need great players at all positions. Assuming they resign AL you have four solid positions. In fact I'd much rather see whatever $$ you're going to pay Vollmer, instead give it to Andy L. It's great to "disassemble the Pats", but only if you're absolutely certain it does improve the Bill's. Some of these suggested moves may be more done to spite them! : Mallett IMO is a guy they have confidence in to step in for Brady much like Cassel did in 2008. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean Cain Posted December 20, 2012 Author Share Posted December 20, 2012 (edited) We have ZERO rushing touchdowns to the right outside of our right guards right shoulder. That lends me to believe we can't run right like Derek Zoolander can't turn left. Vollmer or Jake Long would be welcome additions. Wes Welker would be a solid #2 slot receiver. Mallett has a cannon & a strong arm & by all accounts a high football IQ. It would be worth a gamble for a few picks. Talib is a solid corner who would combine with Gilmore to press receivers. We have a $120 million salary cap to work with & we will likely release: Fitz, Kelsay, Pears, McGee if these deals can be made. Pull these moves off & we could also possibly get Manti T'eo as well. Edited December 20, 2012 by BigCountryBills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 You can't take away Brady's weapons. They'll just be replaced with new WR and suddenly they will become stars. It's Brady that makes those receivers go not the other way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section122 Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 I don't get this thread... We are going to make the Pats* weaker by taking their depth, and then trade a 2nd and 3rd round pick for their backup qb?!?!?!?! Wouldn't that give them the ammunition to refill their depth? What am I missing here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean Cain Posted December 20, 2012 Author Share Posted December 20, 2012 (edited) I don't get this thread... We are going to make the Pats* weaker by taking their depth, and then trade a 2nd and 3rd round pick for their backup qb?!?!?!?! Wouldn't that give them the ammunition to refill their depth? What am I missing here? This is a 2 pronged attack. First, Let's find out what Mallett is worth. If we are going to spend a 1st, 2nd or 3rd in the '13 draft on a rookie don't you think it be worth investigating Mallett, a guy who has 1st round potential but teams shied away from due to off-field issues? We will find out in '13 if Mallett is worth the risk. If he busts than we likely get Johnny Football. If he performs and I believe he will, then will have acquired a solid starter for years. Second, why not acquire players from the Patriots or force them to over spend to retain them? This is what the Yankees & Red Sox having been doing to each other for years. It's time to compete. Edited December 20, 2012 by BigCountryBills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section122 Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 This is a 2 pronged attack. First, Let's find out what Mallett is worth. If we are going to spend a 1st, 2nd or 3rd in the '13 draft on a rookie don't you think it be worth investigating Mallett, a guy who has 1st round potential but teams shied away from due to off-field issues? We will find out in '13 if Mallett is worth the risk. If he busts than we likely get Johnny Football. If he performs and I believe he will, then will have acquired a solid starter for years. Second, why not acquire players from the Patriots or force them to over spend to retain them? This is what the Yankees & Red Sox having been doing to each other for years. It's time to compete. No I don't. He was passed over multiple times by every team in the league. I would prefer someone without off field baggage and a 1st/2nd rounder. As for your second paragraph forcing them to overspend is not a bad idea - giving them draft picks to reload with is - which is what is suggested in the op. It doesn't deplete them of anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeisterHollow Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 I admire your intention. However, I believe any expense of energy not solely concentrated on how to fix our own team, how to make it as sound and strong as possible, would be a misuse of our resources. There are too many good teams to base your strategy on adapting to one or a few; it's more sustainable and, I believe, more successful, to get good enough at what you do to force opposing teams to adapt to you. It's more than the talent on the field, its the attitude and level the players and coaches hold themselves to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProbablyWrong Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Talib would be the.most valuable with mckelvin in the nickel/returning kicks. Vollmer.would also be an upgrade. I see no reason to go for Mallett over any other QB backup/FA, and the WRs really won't give us a great upgrade with welker aging and no deep threat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPS Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 #1 drop a daisy cutter on marcias house thats the only way youre gonna stop them. hes a one man team and the only reason belicheat isnt the painfully mediocre surly nobody he always has been no idea why that came out underlined but it does look dramatic doesnt it You are absolutely correct. Take away Edelman and Welker and Brady will make a Naaman Roosevelt or some other nobody a household name. He's that good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean Cain Posted December 20, 2012 Author Share Posted December 20, 2012 (edited) You are absolutely correct. Take away Edelman and Welker and Brady will make a Naaman Roosevelt or some other nobody a household name. He's that good. That's right, Welker just beat Jerry Rice's NFL record and moved into sole possession with five 100 catch seasons. Yep Welker is a nobody. He is easily replaced in the Patriots offense. Question: How many catches did Welker have in 2008 with Matt Cassel? Answer: 111 Edited December 20, 2012 by BigCountryBills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AReed Deep For6 Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 I would like this post more if it was "Disemboweling the Patriots" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ny33 Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Jake Long will get big money to be someone's LT. He will not be a RT at a salary we can afford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 We already have a solid #2 in Stevie Johnson. We need a #1 I like SJ, he's way over achieving, but he's really a #2 Wes Welker would be a solid #2 slot receiver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 The Pats will most likely lose Welker this off-season. So that's one less weapon. As for the Bills, they need a real starting QB and they'll have a chance every time. Speaking of the Pats, that loss to the 49'ers basically killed their chances at a first-round bye. They're 10-4, while 12-2 Houston will beat Minny at home and/or Indy on the road, while the 11-3 Broncos will easily beat the Browns and Chefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 I admire your intention. However, I believe any expense of energy not solely concentrated on how to fix our own team, how to make it as sound and strong as possible, would be a misuse of our resources. There are too many good teams to base your strategy on adapting to one or a few; it's more sustainable and, I believe, more successful, to get good enough at what you do to force opposing teams to adapt to you. It's more than the talent on the field, its the attitude and level the players and coaches hold themselves to. Exactly.The NE obsession here is near psychotic. Lets say for the NE conspiracy buffs here the NFL just awards NE 16 wins a season. The Bills could still be 14-2 IF THEY GOT THEIR OWN HOUSE IN ORDER. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean Cain Posted December 21, 2012 Author Share Posted December 21, 2012 Exactly.The NE obsession here is near psychotic. Lets say for the NE conspiracy buffs here the NFL just awards NE 16 wins a season. The Bills could still be 14-2 IF THEY GOT THEIR OWN HOUSE IN ORDER. Maybe because the Patriots kick our ass every year? Even with Brady out in 2008 we managed to get beat twice by them finish 7-9 while New England went 11-5. In 2009 Brady's first year back from injury the Patriots went 10-6. How is it that Matt Cassel posted a better record then Brady? There are too many Bills fans that simply sum up the difference between the Patriots & Bills as they have Tom Brady, or Bill Belichick. Look at the drafts since 2000. Look at the facts, understand how they build their team using the draft & free agency. You can learn a lot by emulating your enemy. Does coaching play a part? of course, but by and large I will contend that New England has a winning formula that we haven't yet decoded. Since 2000 New England is 149-57 with 5540 points scored to 3867 against. 11 double digit winning seasons. Since 2000 Buffalo is 81-125 with 3975 points scored to 4691 against. 0 double digit winning seasons. In order to take down New England once and for all we need to attack them on and off the field. We simply need to start challenging them. But lets simply sum this up as Belichick is a genius and / or Brady is a god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Maybe because the Patriots kick our ass every year? Even with Brady out in 2008 we managed to get beat twice by them finish 7-9 while New England went 11-5. In 2009 Brady's first year back from injury the Patriots went 10-6. How is it that Matt Cassel posted a better record then Brady? There are too many Bills fans that simply sum up the difference between the Patriots & Bills as they have Tom Brady, or Bill Belichick. Look at the drafts since 2000. Look at the facts, understand how they build their team using the draft & free agency. You can learn a lot by emulating your enemy. Does coaching play a part? of course, but by and large I will contend that New England has a winning formula that we haven't yet decoded. Since 2000 New England is 149-57 with 5540 points scored to 3867 against. 11 double digit winning seasons. Since 2000 Buffalo is 81-125 with 3975 points scored to 4691 against. 0 double digit winning seasons. In order to take down New England once and for all we need to attack them on and off the field. We simply need to start challenging them. But lets simply sum this up as Belichick is a genius and / or Brady is a god. You missed my point entirely. We can't even beat the Jets. Let's fix the team BEFORE we set sights on the big kid on the block. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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