Toshiero Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Everything in the NFL goes in phases. The current trend is to go 4 WR and put up 5000 yards passing etc. This means Most defenses are getting smaller and faster. At some point it will come back to bigger OL's and a strong running game again. With our change back to a 4-3 and a great DL we are getting back to what really works on D. What I would like to see is Chan go the San Fran way and lets dump the 4-5 WR sets and get back to a traditional offense NOW and pound the running game, use play action go with bigger WR's TE's etc in the passing game. We have the RB corp to do it and we are building a big OL so lets do it now. San Fran shows it can work I say start now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optometric Insight Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 I would do it. After a few years of one thing working, you got to step out of the comfort zone and try something new. Chan doesn't even do it when he's got an injured QB and a whole league that knows what he's doing so I don't think he'll do it. But I would love to see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 (I would like to see the Bills to be ahead of the curve for a change) Everything in the NFL goes in phases. The current trend is to go 4 WR and put up 5000 yards passing etc. This means Most defenses are getting smaller and faster. At some point it will come back to bigger OL's and a strong running game again. With our change back to a 4-3 and a great DL we are getting back to what really works on D. What I would like to see is Chan go the San Fran way and lets dump the 4-5 WR sets and get back to a traditional offense NOW and pound the running game, use play action go with bigger WR's TE's etc in the passing game. We have the RB corp to do it and we are building a big OL so lets do it now. San Fran shows it can work I say start now. I'd like a 2 week all expense paid vacation to Cancun. And I want a pony. The board here cares what I would like, why? Please, could you put a little more thought, a few more facts, and a little less "you" (what you want, what you're sick of, what you believe) into your posts and let's have a great discussion? It's a great topic for discussion, whether a 3-4 or 4-3 D works best or why the NFL current trend is pass pass pass ('cuz it works?). But you're just making these totally unsupported wild-ass assertions, there's little to discuss here. That makes it the moral equivalent of telling everyone you want a vacation in Cancun and a pony. Let's pull your post apart piece by piece: -Are defenses getting smaller and faster? The trend for drafting big hog DL and LB, and all the pre-draft stuff about how Carder at 6-2, 220 is too small to play in the NFL and the size of most NFL rosters argue against this premise. -In fact, the Giants stuffed the Pats zillion-volt passing offense by the simple formula of having 4 big hogs sit on Brady. Other teams have shut down top passing offenses by a similar strategy. -Nevertheless, the reasons for shifting to a 3-4 D are still valid and there are strong 3-4 D that work just fine. Thought question: How did the Texans get to the playoffs with TJ Yates as their QB? We aren't getting back to "what works" in a 4-3 D, we're employing a D our new DC prefers, and which fits our personnel better - we never had the personnel to run a 3-4 correctly (Any D with S. Johnson and Kelsey playing OLB is a bad idea) -Going with bigger WR and TE in the passing game isn't ahead of the curve, it's been here for a long time. See Moss, Gronkowski, etc. -Our RB are really not "ground and pound" big beefy power guys like Lynch. They depend upon holes and elusiveness. The point about what works for SF - a stronger focus on the run - is a good one, and by all accounts more focus on the run is in Chan's sights for 2012, but I'd need to break down their games to know whether or not they're doing this from a traditional 2 WR, 2RB 1 TE set. Have you done the breakdown, or read an analysis of their breakdown that shows this, or are you just making assumptions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FleaMoulds80 Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 (edited) Everything in the NFL goes in phases. The current trend is to go 4 WR and put up 5000 yards passing etc. This means Most defenses are getting smaller and faster. At some point it will come back to bigger OL's and a strong running game again. With our change back to a 4-3 and a great DL we are getting back to what really works on D. What I would like to see is Chan go the San Fran way and lets dump the 4-5 WR sets and get back to a traditional offense NOW and pound the running game, use play action go with bigger WR's TE's etc in the passing game. We have the RB corp to do it and we are building a big OL so lets do it now. San Fran shows it can work I say start now. They do it because they don't have full faith in Alex Smith, mediocre WRs, and they have a dominant defense. We have a better QB and a better WR core and better receiving RBs. Chan's offense is FINE. Edited August 3, 2012 by FleaMoulds80 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddaryl Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 The Bills OL and DL are HUGE. So size is there. the 4 WR setup is fine, especially if you have 4 and 5 WR's who can be effective, and the Bills are demonstrating this in camp. Spreading thee field and having some success throwing the ball softens the interior for the RB's We have a 2 headed monster at RB and Chan has said there will be more emphasis on running the football. Why would you want to scrap 2 previous years of implementation and revamp it? We saw what the O can do when healthy last year, and it was fantastic to watch... Depth issues, experience and injuries derailed us. last year we had no off-season and the playbook was smaller because of that, and getting the young WR's OTA work was non existent and that hurt... I am very excited for our O given the the fact that we have multiple WR's doing real well in camp, and the fact that Fitz is having a real good camp and looks more accurate hitting WR's in stride down field more often Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramblin' Rob Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 I would do it. After a few years of one thing working, you got to step out of the comfort zone and try something new. Chan doesn't even do it when he's got an injured QB and a whole league that knows what he's doing so I don't think he'll do it. But I would love to see it. Bills ranked 9th last year in rushing attempts and 10th in passing attempts, playing from behind in most games(2 of the 6 wins were epic comebacks). We also had a top 3 back for 10 games before he broke his leg, and the replacement took a few games to get going. And the ratio was right along the the league average. Ahead of the curve, no, but don't we have to get to the curve first? But eehhh facts schmacts!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Everything in the NFL goes in phases. The current trend is to go 4 WR and put up 5000 yards passing etc. This means Most defenses are getting smaller and faster. At some point it will come back to bigger OL's and a strong running game again. With our change back to a 4-3 and a great DL we are getting back to what really works on D. What I would like to see is Chan go the San Fran way and lets dump the 4-5 WR sets and get back to a traditional offense NOW and pound the running game, use play action go with bigger WR's TE's etc in the passing game. We have the RB corp to do it and we are building a big OL so lets do it now. San Fran shows it can work I say start now. As long as they call PI like they do and allow WRs to run without being touched it will always be a passing league. If scoring and offense start declining there will be new rules to help the offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just in Atlanta Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 We have the personnel for our current offensive system. We don't have ground and pound RBs. We have multi-tasking finesse runners, and that is fine by me. Plus, it's far more exciting to see quick release West Coast style offenses showing action every down as opposed to power rushing teams grinding out a couple yards here and there. No thanks. Our offense is right where it needs to be. Fitz has one more year to show what he can do. But for now, we are a spread West Coast team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Maybe if our defense could stop sombody Chan WOULD HAVE ran the ball more.... Its hard for a OC like Chan to run the ball when opposing offenses put up points quickly and early on us....he gets afraid that the game is gonna get away from him. Maybe a team that can create pressure and force some punts? Perhaps the game plan will now be different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Are defenses really getting smaller and faster? The Tampa 2 - which prefers faster defenders - has been around since the 1990s. Getting faster is not a new idea. And not everyone buys into it because of your point - when you line up speedsters on defense instead of big bodies, you will suffer against power running teams. This isn't a new observation. So not all defenses are built on speed at the expense of size. The best defenses have both speed and size. Chan proved at the beginning of last year (not to mention with other clubs) that what he wants to do works - when we have the right (or almost right) players and we're healthy. Why change to something unproven when Chan has a proven track record doing what he does? You say "the current trend is to go 4 WR and put up 5000 yards passing." If other teams are passing for 5,000 yards, then I want to get on that train! I want to follow the trend of what works, not go against the grain and do something that doesn't work. Brees, Brady and Stafford all threw for 5,000 yards last year and Eli was close. Apparently defenses aren't small and fast enough yet. Considering that defenses are struggling to defend the pass given some of the newer rules favoring QBs and WRs, Chan wants to throw the ball. That makes perfect sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 We have the personnel for our current offensive system. We don't have ground and pound RBs. We have multi-tasking finesse runners, and that is fine by me. Plus, it's far more exciting to see quick release West Coast style offenses showing action every down as opposed to power rushing teams grinding out a couple yards here and there. No thanks. Our offense is right where it needs to be. Fitz has one more year to show what he can do. But for now, we are a spread West Coast team. I agree with the comment about the runners. Might be a nit, but I don't think we are a West Coast offense team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Since 1972 Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Maybe if our defense could stop sombody Chan WOULD HAVE ran the ball more.... Its hard for a OC like Chan to run the ball when opposing offenses put up points quickly and early on us....he gets afraid that the game is gonna get away from him. Maybe a team that can create pressure and force some punts? Perhaps the game plan will now be different. Some "maybe's" and a coach that is afraid...Bring on the season! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 (edited) Everything in the NFL goes in phases. The current trend is to go 4 WR and put up 5000 yards passing etc. This means Most defenses are getting smaller and faster. At some point it will come back to bigger OL's and a strong running game again. With our change back to a 4-3 and a great DL we are getting back to what really works on D. What I would like to see is Chan go the San Fran way and lets dump the 4-5 WR sets and get back to a traditional offense NOW and pound the running game, use play action go with bigger WR's TE's etc in the passing game. We have the RB corp to do it and we are building a big OL so lets do it now. San Fran shows it can work I say start now. No. The best teams last year (GB, pats, NO, even the Giants against the run) had crappy defenses and pass happy offenses. That works. In their first playoff game the vaunted SF defense gave it up like Snookie on ladies nite. Brees pounded that secondary like it was his birth mother. Edited August 3, 2012 by Mr. WEO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toshiero Posted August 3, 2012 Author Share Posted August 3, 2012 They do it because they don't have full faith in Alex Smith, mediocre WRs, and they have a dominant defense. We have a better QB and a better WR core and better receiving RBs. Chan's offense is FINE. Fine. I guess fine = a losing record for the Bills and OT away from the superbowl for the niners? We have the personnel for our current offensive system. We don't have ground and pound RBs. We have multi-tasking finesse runners, and that is fine by me. Plus, it's far more exciting to see quick release West Coast style offenses showing action every down as opposed to power rushing teams grinding out a couple yards here and there. No thanks. Our offense is right where it needs to be. Fitz has one more year to show what he can do. But for now, we are a spread West Coast team. Exciting is winning a superbowl. Saints and Lions had 5000 yard passers and no SB Win. I would take the Ravens 2000 Superbowl team if it produced a win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 No. The best teams last year (GB, pats, NO, even the Giants against the run) had crappy defenses and pass happy offenses. That works. In their first playoff game the vaunted SF defense gave it up like Snookie on ladies nite. Brees pounded that secondary like it was his birth mother. And yet, the NFL.com headlines read Smith outduels Brees as 49ers oust Saints Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biglukes Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Wouldn't playing like it's the 1950's actually put the Bills behind the curve? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 And yet, the NFL.com headlines read Smith outduels Brees as 49ers oust Saints Yes, well that was par for the course for the crappy NO defense. Smith had the game of his life (the magic wore off immediately the next week when the 49ers lost to the Giants). Even with 5 turnovers, the Saints still almost beat them. Point is the only great defense in the playoffs gave up over 800 yards in 2 games and over 700 were against the pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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