truth on hold Posted July 16, 2012 Author Share Posted July 16, 2012 Newt? Are you out of your mind?!!! That was a brain shart Yes to Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 He makes a good point: Romney will not win simply by slinging mud and trading barbs with Obama. Obama's been under the gun for 5 years now covering the primary against Hillary, presidential campaign against McCain and nearly 4 years in office. All the negatives are out and the guys still standing. Going negative will have minimal impact at this poInt. Romney needs to add Substance. What his cohesive overall plan? Vision? Platform? philosophy? Just being a rich guy who wants to be president whose not Obama isn't going to cut it .... Which was basically mccains criticism of him. It's already working for Romney. They're tied in the polls (if there's Dem oversampling, that's even worse news for Barry), undecideds usually go with the challenger, and Romney hasn't chosen a VP or unveiled his cohesive overall plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
....lybob Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 But Gus lost And Holder doesn't even compare with Mike 2 hours and 10 more minutes The most important thing is Mitt ain't Walter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 It's already working for Romney. They're tied in the polls (if there's Dem oversampling, that's even worse news for Barry), undecideds usually go with the challenger, and Romney hasn't chosen a VP or unveiled his cohesive overall plan. http://www.mittromney.com/blogs/mitts-view/2012/06/obamas-false-attacks?cct_info=1|25219|7946991837|138422374|7793877934||24458078614|tc||d||timesofindia.indiatimes.com|&cct_ver=3&cct_bk=obama%20re%20election&gclid=COjPzp3onLECFYao4Aodyw3ofA I know this comes from the campaign, but addresses things well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinga Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Romney isn't saying anything of analytical merit either. Just sound bite BS about BO being "soft of defense". I know, and I guess it's a failure to articulate properly on my part.... So far, MR has gotten himself sucked into defending himself, instead of pouncing on easy prey... Unless he can come out with a defined plan and talk about it, instead of defending himself, PBOs "forward" movement will swamp him under... Let's face it.... the Democrats as a whole, have nothing to run on this cycle, just like in 2010... They will instead, try to turn this into a "yeah but, those guys are worse" campaign, and so far, have succeeded... MR HAS to turn it back on them.... Hard part is though, staying apart (or above the fray) himself... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 I know, and I guess it's a failure to articulate properly on my part.... So far, MR has gotten himself sucked into defending himself, instead of pouncing on easy prey... Unless he can come out with a defined plan and talk about it, instead of defending himself, PBOs "forward" movement will swamp him under... Let's face it.... the Democrats as a whole, have nothing to run on this cycle, just like in 2010... They will instead, try to turn this into a "yeah but, those guys are worse" campaign, and so far, have succeeded... MR HAS to turn it back on them.... Hard part is though, staying apart (or above the fray) himself... Mitt keeps improving in the polls though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Obama To Americans: You Don’t Deserve What You’ve Earned! “Here's the smartest President ever, speaking in Roanoke on Friday and writing Romney’s next ad for him. Sure sounds like he’s channelling Elizabeth Warren. . . . Barack Obama openly stokes bitter resentment against Americans who work hard, take risks, and create jobs. But at least he’s ‘likable’!” “Obama to Americans: You don’t deserve what you’ve earned” Americans to Obama: “Funny, we were thinking the exact same thing about you…” Heh. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted July 16, 2012 Author Share Posted July 16, 2012 Mitt keeps improving in the polls though. Most recent polls I see have him losing ground http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/us/general_election_romney_vs_obama-1171.html Which is why people think the Obama attacks are working Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinga Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Mitt keeps improving in the polls though. Believe me, I know that 3rd, but it won't stay that way long if he thinks a defensive campaign will keep him there. A real leader, takes the point so to speak. LEADS the charge, not follows and feels he has to defend himself. Not that Romney needs to attack, he shouldn't!!!! But he needs to take the high road.... Get above the negative crap, and focus on what he WILL DO, not what PBO IS doing. Call it a "leadership cred" if you want... Mitt has to show he's a leader, not always defending himself. Someone that is always defending himself is doing so because of insecurity, just what PBO hopes Romney will do... A TRUE leader, doesn't have to defend themselves... We know about Obama's cred and know it's "somewhat" lacking... Let's see what MR has... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Most recent polls I see have him losing ground http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/us/general_election_romney_vs_obama-1171.html Which is why people think the Obama attacks are working Negative works. Period. That's been politics for centuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted July 16, 2012 Author Share Posted July 16, 2012 Negative works. Period. That's been politics for centuries. Its not that simple. I viewed Romney as one of the least negative in the Repub primaries Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinga Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Negative works. Period. That's been politics for centuries. Could that be why people are so fed up with the system then?? Your assertion is true, but only to a point... Decades maybe, except for a few diversions... Reagan' morning in America Bush Sr 1000 points of light and painful as it was PBO's hope and change... Through all of them, there were negative attacks, but it was the positive that won the election... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Believe me, I know that 3rd, but it won't stay that way long if he thinks a defensive campaign will keep him there. A real leader, takes the point so to speak. LEADS the charge, not follows and feels he has to defend himself. Not that Romney needs to attack, he shouldn't!!!! But he needs to take the high road.... Get above the negative crap, and focus on what he WILL DO, not what PBO IS doing. Call it a "leadership cred" if you want... Mitt has to show he's a leader, not always defending himself. Someone that is always defending himself is doing so because of insecurity, just what PBO hopes Romney will do... A TRUE leader, doesn't have to defend themselves... We know about Obama's cred and know it's "somewhat" lacking... Let's see what MR has... He needs surrogates to do the defending. A VP would do very nicely. He's touched on this but I think he has to articulate early and often an energy plan that will make us not only energy independent but a net exporter. Cheap energy can get this economy going and in turn reduce the deficit. Surrogates and PAC ads can blast Obama for wanting to make electricity expensive and get gas prices up to Europe's. They can blast Obama on wanting to bankrupt the coal industry. In the meantime Romney can take the high road and explain what he can do for this country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinga Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 He needs surrogates to do the defending. A VP would do very nicely. He's touched on this but I think he has to articulate early and often an energy plan that will make us not only energy independent but a net exporter. Cheap energy can get this economy going and in turn reduce the deficit. Surrogates and PAC ads can blast Obama for wanting to make electricity expensive and get gas prices up to Europe's. They can blast Obama on wanting to bankrupt the coal industry. In the meantime Romney can take the high road and explain what he can do for this country. YOU.... get it... I don't know how many others do though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 YOU.... get it... I don't know how many others do though... Reagan at one time gave us hope and was able to lift this country out of the Carter malaise. Obama is a little more skilled with the presentation of the bs than Carter. Carter was derided. Obama's ideas, "accomplishments" and statements need to be exposed enough to show him as the fool he is. He needs to be made into another Dukakis. He needs the Jay Lenos and Jimmy Kimmels making jokes about him every night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 He needs surrogates to do the defending. A VP would do very nicely. He's touched on this but I think he has to articulate early and often an energy plan that will make us not only energy independent but a net exporter. Cheap energy can get this economy going and in turn reduce the deficit. Surrogates and PAC ads can blast Obama for wanting to make electricity expensive and get gas prices up to Europe's. They can blast Obama on wanting to bankrupt the coal industry. In the meantime Romney can take the high road and explain what he can do for this country. Just a disclaimer here this all politics I'm talking. Not policy or the candidates value etc.... The Romney campaign is clearly getting worked at the moment. So it's easy to say this now, and there is a long road ahead and Obama-camp will make mistakes and get pounced on and Romney-camp will also make more mistakes going forward...but as of right now it really seems kind of like the Romney campaign was not ready. The part highlighted above is what he obviously needs to do. But the narrative is nonexistent at the moment. The tax thing has completely gotten away from him, and as they always say citing Kerry if you get defined negatively early then when you come with whatever your pitch is later people tune out. Romney had a hard time putting people away in the GOP primary but was able to kind of stick around and drop strategic money bombs and ultimately out last all those candidates...who were IMO (and most people's I think) weak. He was sort of, by definition, a weak candidate himself based on his ability to deal with that group. But it was brutal, he refined his skills and you would think at worst he would be capable going forward with good political strategy. But this is sort of strange and tell me if you think I'm wrong. Does the campaign seem unprepared? They're sort of leaking nonsense about the VP, now talking about moving the pick up early to change the subject, and really the push back from those interviews regarding the tax issues did nothing. When you know you are going to distance yourself from Mass Governor tenure and that the Olympics is only going so far...you put business achievements/private sector success at the for front. Fair enough what else can you do. But this is post-'08. You have to know that can be made a weakness and you must be ready for heavy hitting in an effort to make it a weakness. So when the most predictable punch from Obamas campaign comes and comes hard, from a serious campaign that can spend on your level...you have to be ready to deal with it. If you know it's going to hurt and you aren't going to release more taxes and can't get into a debate delving into the necessary reality of outsourcing or whatever...then you should probably be ready to counter quickly with what you were talking about 3rd. But yet...it hasn't come. They need to roll out a more defined, specific and articulable vision. Obama has rolled out his counter to the "economy sucks, referendum" with his focus on the middle class angle/build for the future angle...and then came hard with the negatives on top of that. Romeny campaign response? Seems to have been at this point to just sort of eat it hoping they can endure it and get through it but they aren't really doing anything effective to minimize the damage or even roll out their own competing "vision." They seem to still be in referendum mode. There's always a way out from the fire and it's early but the campaign seems unprepared and is in this moment getting worked politically. I'm not sure what to think other that they didn't really foresee this and thus are not prepared to counter it effectively on the spot? Maybe they thought the Bain attacks failed and they got through them a few weeks back and thus let their guard down a bit and got caught sleeping? All in all, it just seems this was handled badly and it's hard to imagine they didn't have some sort of more defined plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Just a disclaimer here this all politics I'm talking. Not policy or the candidates value etc.... The Romney campaign is clearly getting worked at the moment. So it's easy to say this now, and there is a long road ahead and Obama-camp will make mistakes and get pounced on and Romney-camp will also make more mistakes going forward...but as of right now it really seems kind of like the Romney campaign was not ready. The part highlighted above is what he obviously needs to do. But the narrative is nonexistent at the moment. The tax thing has completely gotten away from him, and as they always say citing Kerry if you get defined negatively early then when you come with whatever your pitch is later people tune out. Romney had a hard time putting people away in the GOP primary but was able to kind of stick around and drop strategic money bombs and ultimately out last all those candidates...who were IMO (and most people's I think) weak. He was sort of, by definition, a weak candidate himself based on his ability to deal with that group. But it was brutal, he refined his skills and you would think at worst he would be capable going forward with good political strategy. But this is sort of strange and tell me if you think I'm wrong. Does the campaign seem unprepared? They're sort of leaking nonsense about the VP, now talking about moving the pick up early to change the subject, and really the push back from those interviews regarding the tax issues did nothing. When you know you are going to distance yourself from Mass Governor tenure and that the Olympics is only going so far...you put business achievements/private sector success at the for front. Fair enough what else can you do. But this is post-'08. You have to know that can be made a weakness and you must be ready for heavy hitting in an effort to make it a weakness. So when the most predictable punch from Obamas campaign comes and comes hard, from a serious campaign that can spend on your level...you have to be ready to deal with it. If you know it's going to hurt and you aren't going to release more taxes and can't get into a debate delving into the necessary reality of outsourcing or whatever...then you should probably be ready to counter quickly with what you were talking about 3rd. But yet...it hasn't come. They need to roll out a more defined, specific and articulable vision. Obama has rolled out his counter to the "economy sucks, referendum" with his focus on the middle class angle/build for the future angle...and then came hard with the negatives on top of that. Romeny campaign response? Seems to have been at this point to just sort of eat it hoping they can endure it and get through it but they aren't really doing anything effective to minimize the damage or even roll out their own competing "vision." They seem to still be in referendum mode. There's always a way out from the fire and it's early but the campaign seems unprepared and is in this moment getting worked politically. I'm not sure what to think other that they didn't really foresee this and thus are not prepared to counter it effectively on the spot? Maybe they thought the Bain attacks failed and they got through them a few weeks back and thus let their guard down a bit and got caught sleeping? All in all, it just seems this was handled badly and it's hard to imagine they didn't have some sort of more defined plan. I'll make it short. "F" this POS that somehow got elected. He is the ultimate two-faced person. He is everything America is not. He's your boy and you own him. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted July 17, 2012 Author Share Posted July 17, 2012 But this is sort of strange and tell me if you think I'm wrong. Does the campaign seem unprepared? They're sort of leaking nonsense about the VP, now talking about moving the pick up early to change the subject, and really the push back from those interviews regarding the tax issues did nothing. When you know you are going to distance yourself from Mass Governor tenure and that the Olympics is only going so far...you put business achievements/private sector success at the for front. Fair enough what else can you do. But this is post-'08. You have to know that can be made a weakness and you must be ready for heavy hitting in an effort to make it a weakness. So when the most predictable punch from Obamas campaign comes and comes hard, from a serious campaign that can spend on your level...you have to be ready to deal with it. This is the part that really frustrates me. So it's a liability for a President to have been a successful businessperson, when the job of President has become more and more about the economy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 This is the part that really frustrates me. So it's a liability for a President to have been a successful businessperson, when the job of President has become more and more about the economy? And that sentiment is something the Romney campaign should be able to sell, would you agree? Why not try to own it? If some outsourcing happened under his watch then explain the situation that motivates business to do so and how you understand that well and want to enact policies to make America more competitive. Or you would just try and distance yourself from your own company even when there's clear ammo w/ the SEC filings...that seems less effective. If the tax issue isn't going away, why not just release them and say "there's the tax structure as is...we should reform it in following ways" and roll right into some specific plans for America regarding tax reform. They are going to have to outline a vision for America. If you are having trouble dealing with some fire then use it as a platform when all cameras are on you to talk about those issues and your vision for a plan regarding them. They said themselves...if you are defending you are losing....and then they just ... defend. Campaign wise the whole thing seems botched at this moment. I'll make it short. "F" this POS that somehow got elected. He is the ultimate two-faced person. He is everything America is not. He's your boy and you own him. Good luck. Is this you channeling your frustration at over the Romney campaign into fueling your hate for Obama further? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 And that sentiment is something the Romney campaign should be able to sell, would you agree? Why not try to own it? If some outsourcing happened under his watch then explain the situation that motivates business to do so and how you understand that well and want to enact policies to make America more competitive. Or you would just try and distance yourself from your own company even when there's clear ammo w/ the SEC filings...that seems less effective. Is this you channeling your frustration at over the Romney campaign into fueling your hate for Obama further? Now is unfortunately not really the time to try and teach economics, especially with the average persons 10 second attention span. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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