JPL7 Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--sources--new-orleans-saints-kept-a--ledger--detailing-weekly-earnings-in-bounty-scandal.html "While the ledger doesn't necessarily prove that there was an actual transaction, it is potentially strong evidence that such a system existed. In the ledger, payments of $1,000 for cart-offs (a hit that resulted in a player being helped off the field), $400 for whacks (hard hits) and $100 deductions for mental errors were kept track of for each player. Two specific entries for the 2009 season were shown during one meeting. In a game at Buffalo on Sept. 27, 2009, there were three $1,000 awards." Anyone remember specifics from this game? Who fro our beloved Bills were carted off?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussiew Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 I'm sure Lori or Jack will know.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Hammersticks Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--sources--new-orleans-saints-kept-a--ledger--detailing-weekly-earnings-in-bounty-scandal.html "While the ledger doesn't necessarily prove that there was an actual transaction, it is potentially strong evidence that such a system existed. In the ledger, payments of $1,000 for cart-offs (a hit that resulted in a player being helped off the field), $400 for whacks (hard hits) and $100 deductions for mental errors were kept track of for each player. Two specific entries for the 2009 season were shown during one meeting. In a game at Buffalo on Sept. 27, 2009, there were three $1,000 awards." Anyone remember specifics from this game? Who fro our beloved Bills were carted off?? The only injury information I could find was that Leodis McKelvin left the game with an "undisclosed leg injury." No mention of whether or not he was carted off the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Player Available Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--sources--new-orleans-saints-kept-a--ledger--detailing-weekly-earnings-in-bounty-scandal.html "While the ledger doesn't necessarily prove that there was an actual transaction, it is potentially strong evidence that such a system existed. In the ledger, payments of $1,000 for cart-offs (a hit that resulted in a player being helped off the field), $400 for whacks (hard hits) and $100 deductions for mental errors were kept track of for each player. Two specific entries for the 2009 season were shown during one meeting. In a game at Buffalo on Sept. 27, 2009, there were three $1,000 awards." Anyone remember specifics from this game? Who fro our beloved Bills were carted off?? Wondering if the Costa Nostra could file for trademark infringement on the Saints use of the word WHACKS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Hammersticks Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 (edited) Here's something.... While Goodell’s letter to Fujita states that the pool “paid large cash rewards for ‘cart-offs’ and ‘knockouts,’” the NFL still has produced no specific evidence that anyone received any payment for players being carted off and/or knocked out of games. (That’s possibly because the only player carted off of any Saints game from 2009 through 2011 was Saints running back Reggie Bush, who broke a leg against the 49ers in 2010.) Absent such evidence, Fujita merely contributed to a pool of money that was paid out to players who intercepted passes, forced fumbles, etc. Wonder if they have their facts straight? My link Edited June 1, 2012 by Johnny Hammersticks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stony Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--sources--new-orleans-saints-kept-a--ledger--detailing-weekly-earnings-in-bounty-scandal.html "While the ledger doesn't necessarily prove that there was an actual transaction, it is potentially strong evidence that such a system existed. In the ledger, payments of $1,000 for cart-offs (a hit that resulted in a player being helped off the field), $400 for whacks (hard hits) and $100 deductions for mental errors were kept track of for each player. Two specific entries for the 2009 season were shown during one meeting. In a game at Buffalo on Sept. 27, 2009, there were three $1,000 awards." Anyone remember specifics from this game? Who fro our beloved Bills were carted off?? Nothing about the hits, but if my memory is correct, Moorman threw a TD Pass to Denney in the 1st half off of a fake FG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 (edited) Jaurons brain was carted off after deciding not to go for it on 4th and short in the 4th quarter with the bills down only 3 and starting to show signs of life moving the ball on offense. Deciding instead to make the saints "earn it." which of course they did on their next possession on a by then tired and worn out defense. Edited June 1, 2012 by Joe_the_6_pack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 I'd guess the parish fumble, the Edwards pick, and likely the deflection to get the pick, or one of the sacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimBob2232 Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 And somewhere Dick Jauron is walking slowly over to a ref to unemphatically drop a red flag at his foot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 (edited) The only injury information I could find was that Leodis McKelvin left the game with an "undisclosed leg injury." No mention of whether or not he was carted off the field. It's been alleged knock out was just missed time(shaken up) and cartoff was did not return.... Also, he plays defense. Which doesn't match anything reported this far. Here's something.... Wonder if they have their facts straight? My link Yes and no. Only saints but both porter and roby also were taken off in ambulances. Edited June 1, 2012 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynchMob23 Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 (edited) It's been alleged knock out was just missed time(shaken up) and cartoff was did not return.... Yes and no. Only saints but both porter and roby also were taken off in ambulances. Injured Players Jauron provided little update on the status of safety Bryan Scott (ankle) and starting left tackle Demetrius Bell (groin), who also were hurt against the Saints. Jauron said Scott was having tests on Monday. Bell's status will be monitored once the team returns to practice Wednesday. Another Link ORCHARD PARK, N.Y. -- The Buffalo Bills' defensive backfield is suddenly depleted by injuries following a 27-7 loss to the New Orleans Saints on Sunday. Starting cornerback Leodis McKelvin did not return after aggravating an ankle injury in the first half. Also unable to finish were starting safeties Donte Whitner, who hurt his thumb, and Bryan Scott, who also hurt his ankle in the second half. Starting left tackle Demetrius Bell left the game after sustaining a groin injury. Edited June 1, 2012 by LynchMob23 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 (edited) Injured Players I don't think mckelvin, scott or whitner were victims of Gregg Williams defensive bounties. Though perhaps bell was a target! The giants injury is also an LT with a groin injury. Kind of odd injury to be targeting though. And bell was hurt a lot, if I remember correctly. I maintain the bills game was turnovers and big plays primarily. Edited June 1, 2012 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynchMob23 Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 I don't think mckelvin, or whitner were victims of Gregg Williams defensive bounties. Though perhaps bell was a target! The giants injury is also an LT with a groin injury. Kind of odd injury to be targeting though. And bell was hurt a lot, if I remember correctly. I maintain the bills game was turnovers and big plays primarily. That makes sense, though if there were three - I would think one is Bell's "cart off" and then the other two were for big plays/turnovers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 (edited) That makes sense, though if there were three - I would think one is Bell's "cart off" and then the other two were for big plays/turnovers... Could be - I mentioned earlier that there were 2 turnovers. Though one was a rb making a hit on special teams, so again unless offense was in on it I don't know how to chalk that one up... I don't think bells injury was so much a targeted hit but I don't recall the specific play. How would you even cause a groin injury to him as a defender? Could have been pretty liberal in doling it out though. Edited June 1, 2012 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 I don't think mckelvin, scott or whitner were victims of Gregg Williams defensive bounties. Though perhaps bell was a target! The giants injury is also an LT with a groin injury. Kind of odd injury to be targeting though. And bell was hurt a lot, if I remember correctly. I maintain the bills game was turnovers and big plays primarily. Plenty of opportunies to drill a guy in the nuts in a pile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 I wonder how the speeches went if the two examples are we have are both groin.... "touch the groin, effect the groin. You take out the groin and he becomes human." Sorry - I do take this serious but that gave a small chuckle. I do t doubt a system was in place but I think it's far less nefarious than the nfl is portraying. They've acknowledged even turnover payments are referred to as bounties in their releases. The way they used specific words to paint this, and hanging on cartoffs and knockouts (which are again allegedly words used but not literal meaning)....it's frustrating. Punish people for what happened, prove it happened to any level and let's move on. Plenty of opportunies to drill a guy in the nuts in a pile Though painful I don't think that's the multi game injury were discussing. Let's assume a muscle pull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 (edited) Aaand now the league is saying the bills section isn't true? What a cluster... Now pointing to 3 payments in the panthers game. Which happened to have 3 fumbles recovered but the only injury was a panthers lb tearing his acl untouched Edited June 2, 2012 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 (edited) No cluster at all. Give is a rest dude. Theres been no official release of the ledger. The yahoo and ap reports are only citing "a person close to the matter" kind of thing. Who cares if quotes from unnamed sources differ somewhat. Fact is you have the DC issuing a complete unconditional apology an admittance of guilt, a HC who appealed the decision only to get more clarity on what he's allowed to do via as vis NFL during his year suspension - nothing - , players testifying against players, coaches testifying against players, perhaps a ledger of some kind, coach caught on tape, etc etc. plenty of evidence for conviction in a civil suit which this is analogous to. Fines, penalties and suspensions are not based on how effective the program may have been, it's that it existed in the first place, the intent of which was explicitly forbidden under NFL rules. You and all other saints fans and season ticket holders should be venting on your team and no one else. Edited June 2, 2012 by Joe_the_6_pack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 No cluster at all. Give is a rest dude. Theres been no official release of the ledger. The yahoo and ap reports are only citing "a person close to the matter" kind of thing. Who cares if quotes from unnamed sources differ somewhat. Fact is you have the DC issuing a complete unconditional apology an admittance of guilt, a HC who appealed the decision only to get more clarity on what he's allowed to do via as vis NFL during his year suspension - nothing - , players testifying against players, coaches testifying against players, perhaps a ledger of some kind, coach caught on tape, etc etc. plenty of evidence for conviction in a civil suit which this is analogous to. Fines, penalties and suspensions are not based on how effective the program may have been, it's that it existed in the first place, the intent of which was explicitly forbidden under NFL rules. You and all other saints fans and season ticket holders should be venting on your team and no one else. So far the closest thing to evidence has changed 3 times since its come out. Yahoo has been the mouth of the nfl for "leaks" through this and they can't get it straight, my point is the league is recklessly blurring the line between pay for injury and pay for performance with its language. I doubt you caught things like the fact that turnover rewards are also "bounties" or that they we're quite ambiguous with terms like "bounties were paid on plays on which players were injured." does that encompass a situation like Kareem mckenzie who hurt his groin while Eli coughs up a fumble. Does this ledger entry show that payment as pay for injury or pay for play? The fact that instead of explaining what they thought the team categorized cartoffs and knockouts as instead just throwing the terms out there as blood in the water in the first release. They are being very dangerous with their words. even in this "leak" the teams involved have changed repeatedly (starts sounding like quite the list after you attach enough names to it) , and information doesn't match the games (unless bounties were paid for defensive players going down untouched). It also has implications that offensive players are in on it which is a HUGE revelation from the nfl which was totally unaddressed in any of this - that is, unless these are the wrong games leaked again. Hell, there are arguments that Gregg's conditions for reinstatement included letting the nfl change his statements. Basically a "nail this coffin shut for us and you'll be good to go." this coming from unnamed sources close to Gregg, and implied by sources with the team off record. Really, an open ended punishment based on cooperation with the investigation is a heck of a way to get someone to say what you want to hear. Sure, I likely get more analysis of every single word that's released being in new Orleans, but I feel the same about the cowboys and redskins punishments too and defended those teams as well. The nfl has shown this offseason that they are willing to get ugly to prove points instead of following the proper channels. Performance, injury, or a combo - its illegal and punishment is warranted but I think it's owed to the teams and fans around the league that the nfl maintains integrity of the system, even if they are really mad about something. I don't think the nfl has shown that integrity in MULTIPLE issues this offseason. To me as a fan of the league and sport that is frustrating too. Sure, I'm upset these guys were idiots, but I'm also upset that the nfl is seemingly trying to find ways to be just as dumb and reckless in this process. I think any fan of the league should be very unhappy with the way the offseason has gone, personally. But I suppose we will save that anger for when we get rolled on by the nfl. That's not arguing innocence (though i do think the boys and skins punishments are beyond ridiculous) but advocating truthful information and even handed application of the rules from that information, regardless of team colors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 (edited) http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ap-source-nfl-saints-bounty-005604804--nfl.html;_ylt=AiPBxAxvdUKCHCOYK1_c94pDubYF Another story on the ledger that's confirming that the language used was dumb but hits weren't targeted. That the players were never afforded a chance to see this. Vilmas been all over this on twitter going after the nfl leak. For his own sake I hope he knows what he's getting into and is truly uninvolved in pay for injury. And I've heard that the burbank is considering ruling that the nfl mishandled punishment and basically messed up grouping pay for play and pay for injury together (sound familiar from my posts the last 2 months?) and they will possibly need to go back to square one with a lot of this? No joe, this whole thing wasn't a mess for the nfl in how they handled it. Edited June 2, 2012 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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