Beerball Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Where's the call to head hunt? I would look under the 'kill shots' that his former players talk about...more money for kill shots, more money for injuring an opponent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 I would look under the 'kill shots' that his former players talk about...more money for kill shots, more money for injuring an opponent. Again, if you can point to ANYTHING that shows head shots were more common, I'll concede that. Warner and favre, neither head shots. In fact I've often heard that their free safety, Jenkins, is among the best at following the new rules/emphasis. A kill shot could be any big hit. Fletcher had a kill shot on fitz, moats had one on favre - both clean. Go ahead and make the jump - it may even end up true - but I haven't seen anything yet to support it besides the fact that locker room talk sounds awful at the dinner table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Again, if you can point to ANYTHING that shows head shots were more common, I'll concede that. Warner and favre, neither head shots. In fact I've often heard that their free safety, Jenkins, is among the best at following the new rules/emphasis. A kill shot could be any big hit. Fletcher had a kill shot on fitz, moats had one on favre - both clean. Go ahead and make the jump - it may even end up true - but I haven't seen anything yet to support it besides the fact that locker room talk sounds awful at the dinner table. Sorry buddy, we're irrational. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 (edited) Sorry buddy, we're irrational. I mean Warner was a chest injury, and favres leg was his main issue, and didn't even knock him out.... And those are the only two instances anyone's pointing at. There are a lot of legal ways to knock someone out of a game, or rattle them enough to make mistakes. In fact, most defensive players thrive on that. Fans love it. From what I've heard I really suspect it was about being the most physical team possible in order to ultimately make big plays. If it ends up being after the whistle, or life threatening hits to the head I'll certainly get on board the train about to roll over Gregg. So far, no. Heres Matt bowen discussing it: http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Williams-remember-me-hits-part-of-the-game-6380.html If that article is accurate to the goal, how do you feel beerball? Edited March 4, 2012 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wnyBacker Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 100 percent motivation. Coy Wire is a little baby for ratting us out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Sorry buddy, we're irrational. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 NFL can prepare for massive lawsuits from any player injured by the Saints... CRIMINAL CHARGES Criminal charges of assault and battery against the teams, including Williams, are possible, said Ryan Rodenberg, an attorney and a sports management professor at Florida State University. Rodenberg said that in 2000, Canadian prosecutors brought assault charges against Boston Bruins hockey player Marty McSorley for smashing Vancouver Canucks player Donald Brashear in the head with a hockey stick. As a result of the blow, Brashear struck his head on the ice, lost consciousness and suffered memory lapses. McSorley was sentenced to 18 months probation and banned from playing for that period. Although the case did not involve bounty payments, it illustrates the willingness of prosecutors to get involved in situations involving intentional hits, Rodenberg said. Criminal charges related to the bounty scandal could arise from the various jurisdictions where injuries occurred. Federal prosecutors could also bring charges, said Paul Callan, a former New York City prosecutor who is an attorney at New York's Callan, Koster, Brady & Brennan. If bounties were paid for games played outside a team's home state, then interstate telephone calls, computer use and travel could trigger federal charges, he said. Possible charges could include wire fraud, conspiracy and racketeering, Callan said. Tax evasion charges were another possibility for the money that players earned for making big hits. "Things could get interesting," Callan said. http://news.yahoo.com/bounty-scandal-could-end-u-courts-223629970--nfl.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffOrange Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Sorry if this was asked already, but why didn't our defense hit anybody for the 3 years he was here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICanSleepWhenI'mDead Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 I'm still curious abou the 18k documents totaling 50k pages That's like 350 documents averaging 3 pages per game. That's like 6 documents and 18 pages per snap. It's a strangely huge number. Just guessing here, but it's possible that each e-mail the NFL reviewed is considered a "document." With the extent to which most communications are electronic these days, any competent investigator would be looking for e-mails to see what was really going on. The NFL could afford top notch investigators if it wanted them, and the NFL coaching fraternity is probably clueless about what it takes to actually rid all traces of e-mail communications from a computer's hard drive. When you simply "delete" an e-mail, it's not really gone. I would not be surprised if one of the first things the investigators did was "image" the hard drive of any coach suspected of being involved. This would also explain how the NFL got the e-mail from Ornstein (sp?) to the Saints' head coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marauderswr80 Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Head hunting or whatever you wanna call it either way what gregg williams did was wrong. Plain and simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Roddy white on record as it's a league wide thing. Atlanta is on the list now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 (edited) I mean Warner was a chest injury, and favres leg was his main issue, and didn't even knock him out.... And those are the only two instances anyone's pointing at. There are a lot of legal ways to knock someone out of a game, or rattle them enough to make mistakes. In fact, most defensive players thrive on that. Fans love it. From what I've heard I really suspect it was about being the most physical team possible in order to ultimately make big plays. If it ends up being after the whistle, or life threatening hits to the head I'll certainly get on board the train about to roll over Gregg. So far, no. Heres Matt bowen discussing it: http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Williams-remember-me-hits-part-of-the-game-6380.html If that article is accurate to the goal, how do you feel beerball? Great article, but here is what everyone will fail to understand: When players talk about "Remember Me Hits", they arent talking specifically about the head-hunting, human-missile stuff. They are talking about "big hits". It's up to the player to decide what form he uses. Some pull the missile crap, and it sucks. But that isnt what the bounty system was about, as far as we know. We've all seen good, clean "Remember Me Hits". And when theyre done right, the opposing player usually has to take a play or two off. Good, ol' Defensive football. That's all it's come down to so far. The problem the league has to ratify, is the "pay for performance", and the outside money coming into play. For that, there will be punishment. But from looking at the Saints history, and the other defenses' histories, it's very difficult to draw any correlation to dirty play. Edited March 5, 2012 by DrDareustein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Roddy white on record as it's a league wide thing. Atlanta is on the list now? Sure why not? Is your theory on crime that it's somehow less criminal the more often it's broken? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Sure why not? Is your theory on crime that it's somehow less criminal the more often it's broken? No - I've gone on record several times that there should be punishment. But the fact that you can total up about half the league in the last 5-10 years just from player admissions this weekend does imply it's not nearly the unspeakable offense that some here imply. Is it right? No. Is it the end of the world? Not really. In fact, it seems the NFL didn't reeeeally even want to know or they would have looked at Williams other teams before Friday. Apparently all it took was a phone call to any number of players on multiple rosters and they would have had the answers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Idk who said "end of the world" but paying cash bonuses for injuring opponents seems awfully serious to me. To me The problem increases in nature a) the more common it is amongst players and b) the more support it has from team officials. Your posts indicate you feel the problem is less serious the more common. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Idk who said "end of the world" but paying cash bonuses for injuring opponents seems awfully serious to me. To me The problem increases in nature a) the more common it is amongst players and b) the more support it has from team officials. Your posts indicate you feel the problem is less serious the more common. It's something to be addressed either way but the approach to address it changes greatly based on scope and severity. I'm seeing a ton of people doing it, and no proof of dirty hits yet. If it were one team and grossly dirty play I lay the hammer in a totally different way then if everyone's just celebrating big clean hits. We will see where this goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 The hits on favre in the NFC championship game were "grossly dirty". Even the league admitted the officials blew it. Sound a lot like the high-low hit dungy says williams redskins laid on manning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 I guess Joe, I just don't get coming from you. The reward is where it crosses into a deep dark moral abyss? Weren't you advocating the giants going after the 9ers returner with concussion issues? I'm not saying this is a good situation but I am saying it's not all that surprising or rare. I'm also amazed given what I've read from several of the most outraged that there's this kind of objection. So it's ok to go into the game with the goal of hitting a guy with a history of brain injuries in the head, but not to say I'll drop a grand in pockets for the biggest hits of the day? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Yes I think it's ok to test a guy with an injury to see if he can play. If he can't it's the opponents responsibility to get him off the field. I think it's crossing the line when a bounty is put on someones head to have them carted off the field. I believe the league rules are consistent with this view Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 (edited) Yes I think it's ok to test a guy with an injury to see if he can play. If he can't it's the opponents responsibility to get him off the field. I think it's crossing the line when a bounty is put on someones head to have them carted off the field. I believe the league rules are consistent with this view Again, I get that this is against the rules, and I get that isn't. When it came to a guy with concussion issues being your example, morally, I think that's a bit more bankrupt then what has so far been released in this example. Who was carted off the field again? I've yet to come up with a single name. If that was the primary goal it was do e pretty poorly. If the goal was big hits and attitude then yea I think the saints were good on that. Were there bad hits over that span? Sure. Were they more common than you'd expect from a team playing hard? No. Until I see dirty play within the lines I'm leaving it at the type of thing that should never have happened but did not cause dangerous play. So far we have a clean hit on manning, a clean block on Warner after a turnover, and a hit on favre that landed low on the leg but certainly wasn't the Vince Wilfork flying elbow to the knee type of bad hit. The flagged hit on favre that game got McCray absolutely ripped by coaches on the sideline. Edited March 5, 2012 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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