A New Domed Bills Stadium in the Falls?

[Ray]

Great idea on multiple fronts. But, I would make it a retractable roof stadium. For those who said it would be 1.5B?? Seriously? This is not going to be like Jerry Jones' stadium. This would be more like Indy's stadium which was about $600M.

You would be able to tap into the tourist market and it would be much easier to get the southern ontario fans. NF is the 5th biggest tourist destination in North America (all of NF--both NY and Ontario combined), so keep that in mind.

You would need dome capability to generate other revenue like concerts, other sporting events, etc....

I would say keep the dome open except for horrific weather (extreme winds, extreme snow, rain...). People say this is Buffalo but NOBODY likes watching games in weather we have had in recent years. 70mph winds in the Pats game a few years ago and the Giants game a couple years ago were awful!!! Terrible experiences for everyone and it is NOT football.

You could generate other income with Bills HoF, museum, other stores similar to Patriots Place but in a MUCH better environment. Pats place is in the middle of nowhere. NF would have a decent size/critical mass and immediately you would be able to compete with the Canadian side.

 

In the end it will not happen as it is a costly venture and Ralph is not going to shell out hundreds of millions of cash for it and the taxpayers are broke. We will have to be happy with the Ralph which is a good venue most of the time and in the end it will keep the team here.

[PromoTheRobot]

First of all there is no government money to build a new stadium, domed or otherwise.

 

That said, I supported this idea vigorously in the past. It puts the Bills closer to Toronto without leaving the USA, it puts the Bills in the middle of an established tourist area, a stadium complex could host other major events and bring in even more visitors, etc. I also think that sitting in the cold sucks. IMO a lot of the so-called die-hards stay home because it's too cold in December.

 

But there are huge hurdles besides money. There is some billionaire whose name I forget who apparently has been buying up big chunks of Niagara Falls (USA) for reasons unknown. Would this guy go for building a stadium? How much would he want?

 

Then there is the issue of dealing with Niagara County, an entity with a less-than-stellar record of being accommodating to development. While the mob isn't what it used to be in the Falls, the old ways of doing business die hard. Then throw in the NY State Parks system that owns the land along the river. You know they would make it hard on any development along the gorge.

 

As much as I would love to see a Falls dome for the Bills, I think refurbishing RWS is the practical way to go. Maybe they can start planning for a new stadium 20-30 years down the line, but if the Bills are willing to lock themselves into Orchard Park for 20 years then why argue with them?

 

PTR

[nucci]

Great idea on multiple fronts. But, I would make it a retractable roof stadium. For those who said it would be 1.5B?? Seriously? This is not going to be like Jerry Jones' stadium. This would be more like Indy's stadium which was about $600M.

You would be able to tap into the tourist market and it would be much easier to get the southern ontario fans. NF is the 5th biggest tourist destination in North America (all of NF--both NY and Ontario combined), so keep that in mind.

You would need dome capability to generate other revenue like concerts, other sporting events, etc....

I would say keep the dome open except for horrific weather (extreme winds, extreme snow, rain...). People say this is Buffalo but NOBODY likes watching games in weather we have had in recent years. 70mph winds in the Pats game a few years ago and the Giants game a couple years ago were awful!!! Terrible experiences for everyone and it is NOT football.

You could generate other income with Bills HoF, museum, other stores similar to Patriots Place but in a MUCH better environment. Pats place is in the middle of nowhere. NF would have a decent size/critical mass and immediately you would be able to compete with the Canadian side.

 

In the end it will not happen as it is a costly venture and Ralph is not going to shell out hundreds of millions of cash for it and the taxpayers are broke. We will have to be happy with the Ralph which is a good venue most of the time and in the end it will keep the team here.

The NFL has final say if a stadium with a retractable roof is open or closed. I have been to Cardinals and Texans new stadiums and both roofs can open. Weather in Houston on game day was 68 and partly cloudy. Beautiful day and roof was closed. In Phoenix it was a bit warmer but sunny and 80s. Roof closed. Guarantee if we have a retractable roof it will be closed all the time. Hate indoor football and every Bills fan here should also.

[RJ (not THAT RJ)]

I think it is Howard Millstein. He is sitting on pretty much all the land around the Casino, waiting for someone else to come up with a development plan so he can make a profit selling his land, and standing in the way of plans he does not like.

 

I am an NF native, and it pains me to say your analysis of both the city and county is certainly true, Promo. Add to that the unwillingness of Erie County to lose the sales tax and other revenue from the Bills, and a move to the Falls seems quite remote.

 

Remodeling the Ralph is the smart play.

 

 

 

First of all there is no government money to build a new stadium, domed or otherwise.

 

That said, I supported this idea vigorously in the past. It puts the Bills closer to Toronto without leaving the USA, it puts the Bills in the middle of an established tourist area, a stadium complex could host other major events and bring in even more visitors, etc. I also think that sitting in the cold sucks. IMO a lot of the so-called die-hards stay home because it's too cold in December.

 

But there are huge hurdles besides money. There is some billionaire whose name I forget who apparently has been buying up big chunks of Niagara Falls (USA) for reasons unknown. Would this guy go for building a stadium? How much would he want?

 

Then there is the issue of dealing with Niagara County, an entity with a less-than-stellar record of being accommodating to development. While the mob isn't what it used to be in the Falls, the old ways of doing business die hard. Then throw in the NY State Parks system that owns the land along the river. You know they would make it hard on any development along the gorge.

 

As much as I would love to see a Falls dome for the Bills, I think refurbishing RWS is the practical way to go. Maybe they can start planning for a new stadium 20-30 years down the line, but if the Bills are willing to lock themselves into Orchard Park for 20 years then why argue with them?

 

PTR

[Endless Ike]

Only good thing I could think of if they added a dome is that they could play a super bowl in Buffalo. Not that they ever would play one in Buffalo but they technically could then.

 

Other than that, screw the dome.

 

No they couldn't play the super bowl in buffalo. Not without about 5,000 more hotel rooms at nice new hotels. The hotel stock in buffalo is largely outdated. There are probably a handful of hotels in the area that wouldn't be embarassing for the tens of thousands of high-rolling out of towners to stay at.

[r00tabaga]

The NFL has final say if a stadium with a retractable roof is open or closed. I have been to Cardinals and Texans new stadiums and both roofs can open. Weather in Houston on game day was 68 and partly cloudy. Beautiful day and roof was closed. In Phoenix it was a bit warmer but sunny and 80s. Roof closed. Guarantee if we have a retractable roof it will be closed all the time. Hate indoor football and every Bills fan here should also.

This is not true. When the Colts opened their stadium, Tony Dungy had up until an hour before kickoff to decide wether or not to close the roof.

[RJ (not THAT RJ)]

This is not true. When the Colts opened their stadium, Tony Dungy had up until an hour before kickoff to decide wether or not to close the roof.

 

 

No retractable roof has even been left open in bad weather. Ever. Sensible people should stop pretending otherwise.

 

Retractable roof = dome, except on brilliant sunny days. I leave it to the individual to decide whether they like that, but that is what it is.

[nucci]

This is not true. When the Colts opened their stadium, Tony Dungy had up until an hour before kickoff to decide wether or not to close the roof.

OK, I've read differently. You are correct.

 

NFL rules for roof opening -- home team determines if roof is to be opened or closed 90 minutes before kickoff (except if precipitation is within the vicinity of LOS, temperature is below 42 degrees, or wind gusts are greater than 40 mph, then roof is automatically closed). It remains open unless there are hazardous conditions (lightning, severe winds, precipitation, low temperatures, etc.) Once closed, the roof may not be reopened.

Edited November 1, 2011 by nucci

[RJ (not THAT RJ)]

OK, I've read differently. You are correct.

 

NFL rules for roof opening -- home team determines if roof is to be opened or closed 90 minutes before kickoff (except if precipitation is within the vicinity of LOS, temperature is below 42 degrees, or wind gusts are greater than 40 mph, then roof is automatically closed). It remains open unless there are hazardous conditions (lightning, severe winds, precipitation, low temperatures, etc.) Once closed, the roof may not be reopened.

 

 

Nice find on the rules, proving my point above.

[r00tabaga]

No retractable roof has even been left open in bad weather. Ever. Sensible people should stop pretending otherwise.

 

Retractable roof = dome, except on brilliant sunny days. I leave it to the individual to decide whether they like that, but that is what it is.

Does not mean that it can't. Why would you ever want Peyton to throw in the rain or snow!

 

Edit: Just read the above post about no lifhtning, snow or rain. Didn't know that. Only heard that it was coaches call.

Edited November 1, 2011 by r00tabaga

[ChevyVanMiller]

First of all there is no government money to build a new stadium, domed or otherwise.

 

That said, I supported this idea vigorously in the past. It puts the Bills closer to Toronto without leaving the USA, it puts the Bills in the middle of an established tourist area, a stadium complex could host other major events and bring in even more visitors, etc. I also think that sitting in the cold sucks. IMO a lot of the so-called die-hards stay home because it's too cold in December.

 

But there are huge hurdles besides money. There is some billionaire whose name I forget who apparently has been buying up big chunks of Niagara Falls (USA) for reasons unknown. Would this guy go for building a stadium? How much would he want?

 

Then there is the issue of dealing with Niagara County, an entity with a less-than-stellar record of being accommodating to development. While the mob isn't what it used to be in the Falls, the old ways of doing business die hard. Then throw in the NY State Parks system that owns the land along the river. You know they would make it hard on any development along the gorge.

 

As much as I would love to see a Falls dome for the Bills, I think refurbishing RWS is the practical way to go. Maybe they can start planning for a new stadium 20-30 years down the line, but if the Bills are willing to lock themselves into Orchard Park for 20 years then why argue with them?

 

PTR

 

 

His name is Howard Milstein and in addition to what you'll see here he was named the Director of the NYS Thruway back in June.

Edited November 1, 2011 by ChevyVanMiller

[EndZoneCrew]

[Ray]

First of all there is no government money to build a new stadium, domed or otherwise.

 

That said, I supported this idea vigorously in the past. It puts the Bills closer to Toronto without leaving the USA, it puts the Bills in the middle of an established tourist area, a stadium complex could host other major events and bring in even more visitors, etc. I also think that sitting in the cold sucks. IMO a lot of the so-called die-hards stay home because it's too cold in December.

 

But there are huge hurdles besides money. There is some billionaire whose name I forget who apparently has been buying up big chunks of Niagara Falls (USA) for reasons unknown. Would this guy go for building a stadium? How much would he want?

 

Then there is the issue of dealing with Niagara County, an entity with a less-than-stellar record of being accommodating to development. While the mob isn't what it used to be in the Falls, the old ways of doing business die hard. Then throw in the NY State Parks system that owns the land along the river. You know they would make it hard on any development along the gorge.

 

As much as I would love to see a Falls dome for the Bills, I think refurbishing RWS is the practical way to go. Maybe they can start planning for a new stadium 20-30 years down the line, but if the Bills are willing to lock themselves into Orchard Park for 20 years then why argue with them?

 

PTR

 

PTR I agree with you. The renovation of RWS is going to be the only way to go due to money. The only way would be for someone to put up a lot of money if they thought a stadium attached to hotels and shopping etc...would be enough to draw people to the area for a profit.

It is Howard Milstein (who has bought up hundreds of acres) who interestingly tried to buy the Redskins, and his lead guy in the Falls is Roger Trevino Jim Kelly's former agent...likely just coincidence. Furthermore, you are right about sitting in the cold and it does suck! Why do you think no games in December are close to being sold out? People like going when it is warm. Now in Buffalo that could be no wind, sunny and 35 and people are okay with that. But throw in 20mph winds, snow, and 20 degrees and it is miserable and you would get a lot more people willing to go if there was a cover over the stadium.

But in the end too many hurdles but fun to speculate about!!

[ChevyVanMiller]

Milstein Bio

 

Sorry, here's the Milstein link

[Bills(70)]

that 1 billion + for a new dome was in DALLAS, where property costs are exponentially higher.

 

It would probably cost 1/2 that to build the same thing here, and there is no reason to make a new stadium as embarrassingly excessive as the JerryDome

Not true at all.

It will cost approx. 1.2 billion for a stadium of this nature in this area.

You seem to forget the engineering aspect of a Northern (heavy snow) area.

 

In example:

The 2007 proposed cost estimate for the downtown Minneapolis stadium was $953,916,000.[12] The total breaks down to $616,564,000 for the stadium, $200,729,000 for a retractable roof, $58,130,000 for parking, $8,892,000 for adjacent land right-of-way, and $69,601,000 to take into account inflation by 2010.[12] The estimate compares to upcoming stadiums in Indianapolis at $675 million (retractable roof, completed 2008), Dallas at $932 million (retractable roof, completed 2009) and New York at $1.7 billion (open-air, completed in 2010).[12] In addition, according to Wilf, taking into account the costs for the surrounding urban developments put forth in the proposal would bring the estimated total to $2 billion.[8] The estimated costs were based on projected 2008 construction and material costs, so it is possible that the stadium costs could hover near $1 billion if the Minnesota State Legislature does not approve the project in the 2008 session.

Referrence link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vikings_Stadium

 

And there are "always" cost overruns of 10% minimum or more on projects of this nature. The Pro Forma's written for them aren't set in stone. Not one project I've worked on over 22 years now has ever come in on budget and on time.

Just an FYI........

 

And further more, Niagara Falls is not a family friendly environment. You have a Casino, a run down and heavily under and undeveloped downtown, environmental nightmares such as Oxy Chem, Olen Chemical and Dupont Soduim along with a host of other high end polluters immediately adjacent to the area. Then there is the lack of infrastructure in the area, for example the inclompletion of the Lasalle Expressway (an estimated 35 million to complete, just to Buffalo Ave and River Rd. in NT) and the creation of heavy traffic in a known tourist zone (i.e. the Rainbow bridge and the Falls attraction itself, which is sure to see an overwhelming increase in traffic specific to games on Sunday, which the weekends have a higher volume of visition for the Falls itself), actually creating a detractor for visitors specific to the Falls.

 

And the list goes on......

Been down this road with regards to Niagara Falls.

It's hard to say this, but trust me on this one, downtown Buffalo is much more suited to a domed stadium.

Good idea, wrong area.

Edited November 1, 2011 by Bills(70)

[JCBoston]

I grew up in the Buffalo area, and my heart is in Buffalo. What I really don't understand is people complain about the Bills moving to the Falls would pull them from Buffalo but isn't Orchard Park out of Buffalo as well. That's no different than saying Amherst. I never understood why the politicians in Buffalo and the Falls do not team up and make it part of the city to draw more business and tourism. Oh wait, I'm sorry it's the Canadian side that looks at that. I about laughed my a** off when I stopped up there and watched the mayor talk about how they have a development team to have a business team try to develop the Falls....... What gives? The politics in the Buffalo area is just crazy stupid and they all need to be fired if half the city of Buffalo and the Falls were to really travel to a city that is on the up and up and see how it's done. Hell just stand at the Falls and look across the river and one can see the difference. Get rid of the politics and then talk about moving the Bills to the Falls or some way, some how, one of the politicians up there will do something stupid and sell the Bills off to another city.

 

Short answer: Erie County != Niagara County

[Lv-Bills]

"What is the bigger move? What could the people of Western New York do to make a national statement that the Bills are our team, the NFL our birthright, and that we are serious about being a real player at a poker table many think has reached a level too steep for our wallet?

 

Eschewing the stadium renovations in favor of building a state-of-the-art domed stadium would be the first shot across the bow that I'd fire to serve that notice nationally. Putting that stadium in downtown Niagara Falls would be the second."

 

Would you support a plan to build a new dome in place of shelling out $100 million to update the Ralph?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A DOME FOR THE BILLS IN NIAGARA FALLS COULD KEEP TEAM HERE, REVITALIZE CITY

 

 

NO NO NO NO NO NO NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. #1, there is no money and should be no money to do this. Period. #2 I don't know how many of you go to other NFL stadiums, BUT the seating in the Ralph is incredible. End of story. There is no better stadium in the league for sightlines, seating, closeness to field, etc. The Ralph is incredible. Make the amenities away from the seats upgraded, and we'll be fine.

 

The Ralph is awesome for football. We don't need a new stadium. We need an upgrade.

Edited November 1, 2011 by Lv-Bills

[Mr_Blizzard]

I'm ok with an update of the Ralph.

[don_of_manhattan]

I wouldn't be averse to a new stadium (God knows how we pay for it), but I don't want to see a dome for the Bills.

[Just in Atlanta]

In the falls? That would be pretty cool.