Dorkington Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 If you are a fan, why think like that? I mean really, it is a question. I'm being objective as best I can. I *hope* the BIlls finish 15-1, at this point. But looking at our wins, and our loss, I'll be surprised if we come out of the next few weeks in good shape. I am bookmarking this comment and expect a full mea culpa when the team is gunning for a playoff berth being second in the AFC East sitting at 10-6. This is an above average team that will have more ups than downs. Are you really saying it's unrealistic to think this team can't win three more games? Uh... it'd take 5 more wins to get to .500 for the season, no? Do I think it's unrealistic? Absolutely not. But looking at how we performed against the Bengals, and how our defense fared against he Raiders and the Patriots. I have a hard time believing that we'll come away with 7 more wins (for a 10-6) record through the end of the season. We got pushed around by a good defense, and we couldn't stop a rookie QB. How can you not see huge problems with that? We made Jason Campbell look like a HoFer. That being said. I hope you're right and I'm wrong. And if I am wrong, I'll be the first one on this forum yelling about how wrong I am. AND I'll be !@#$ing happy to do so. I am way more into the Bills being good than I am being right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 This question has been brought up in countless threads. Some people think they can be a fan of a team but still question the teams methods and think the team is not very good wrt player and coaching talent. Some people think you cannot be a fan of a team if you question the teams methods or think the players or coaches lack talent. You seem to fall into the latter category, but there are some who fall into the former. Simple enough. Bingo. I go to a Bills Backer bar every weekend to watch them play. I have my gear. I scream loudly throughout the game. I don't think we are perfect though. I don't see any harm in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delete This Account Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 (edited) No, your idea of a discussion is to discount MY argument as pure Bills fan ignorance while propping up your own take on the Bills. That is not argument, and yet you continue to do it, as if anyone who dares to disagree with you is delusional. thought i'd give this more thought in my response, because i find your response curious because you seem to think this is all about you. whether i disagreed or discounted YOUR (why you choose to capitalize for empahasis is curious, too) argument is well neither here nor there. it's YOUR argument and you can do with it what you might. and if you happen to construe my point in this thread as being solely directed at you, well, that's what you get for inferring. but now that you mention it, YOU were the one who referred to my posts as essentially "moronic" and "drivel," when i did no such thing in response. there have been times (many times) in the past where i have come at posters, but never have i used the word "moron" or "idiot." and in recent months, those here who are familiar with my drivel might note that i've taken a bit of a more laidback approach. perhaps, i am the one who's delusional. and yet YOUR approach to this discussion seemed to make it out like this was YOU against me, when that wasn't the case. jw Edited October 4, 2011 by john wawrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 (edited) something incredibly strange has happened among Bills fans of late and i can't seem to put my finger on it. several fans on this board and beyond have grown so bold in their belief that the Bills are pure, good, godly and infallible that they've gone so far as to refute any reasonable attempt at perspective and discussion. anyone saying anything hinting at the Bills having faults is suddenly regarded as a traitorous moron, and asked to somehow back up their hypotheses with facts (they're hypotheses so facts aren't part of the equation), told to go fornicate themselves and urged to go root for the Jets, Patriots, Dolphins and so on. i thought there was room on this board to actually have discussions. but it's becoming increasingly apparent that the delusional few have taken the reins. just one person's opinion. jw. I can only speak for myself, John - but, in my never-ending quest to attain total perfection, I do strive for consistency. I realize, however, that said consistency must necessarily be tempered, at times, with reality. This is why I have now, wisely, backed away from my 19-0 prediction... GO BILLSSS!!!! 18 and 1 baby!!!!! . Edited October 4, 2011 by The Senator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delete This Account Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 I can only speak for myself, John - but, in my never-ending quest to attain total perfection, I do strive for consistency. I realize, however, that said consistency must necessarily be tempered, at times, with reality. This is why I have now, wisely, backed away from my 19-0 prediction... GO BILLSSS!!!! 18 and 1 baby!!!!! . well, there's no arguing with you. jw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Giants will crush us. So stop dreaming And Philly will beat us too. The problem with the Bills is we play up or down to the opponents we face. We beat the tough teams and lose to the horrible teams. So you're saying the Giants and Eagles are horrible then? I disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennesseeboy Posted October 4, 2011 Author Share Posted October 4, 2011 the .500 isn't an unrealistic prediction. preseason I posited that we might be 303 at the break and based on that might get to the nine game win (actually that's only one game above .500) Is it too early to talk playoffs? Probably, but so far our division which looked like an impossible dream at the beginning of the season is showing some real chinks in their armor. The pats are not yet playing like the pats of old, and the jets look less stellar than we do by a long shot. Miami is pretty much throwing in the towel. I could see us even winning the division with nine wins. If they are the RIGHT wins (patsies, jets and dolphins) the playoffs are a real possibility. This could be a very good season for us...not to panic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennesseeboy Posted October 4, 2011 Author Share Posted October 4, 2011 My problem with the media on this particular sunday? Note that Cincinnatti has one of the better defenses in the league, note that Cefric Benson and the running backs we have faced (Charles, McFadden) are some of the premier running backs of the league, and but for two questionable calls we would have won the game. I don't see it as a "crash" by any means. Not a particularly good performance, but we're still and appropriately leading the division. I don't mind the media criticizing (I have been known to criticize a time or two), but I just don't see the "sky is falling" mentality the media seems to be showing on tbd as justified by the performance of this team in the first four weeks of the season. Let's say we lose the next two, I'd be concerned. I think we would be favored over the eagles and not favored over the giants, but we will have to play better than last week to beat either of them...and we showed in the first three weeks that we can play a lot better than we did last week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasternOHBillsFan Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 thought i'd give this more thought in my response, because i find your response curious because you seem to think this is all about you. whether i disagreed or discounted YOUR (why you choose to capitalize for empahasis is curious, too) argument is well neither here nor there. it's YOUR argument and you can do with it what you might. and if you happen to construe my point in this thread as being solely directed at you, well, that's what you get for inferring. but now that you mention it, YOU were the one who referred to my posts as essentially "moronic" and "drivel," when i did no such thing in response. there have been times (many times) in the past where i have come at posters, but never have i used the word "moron" or "idiot." and in recent months, those here who are familiar with my drivel might note that i've taken a bit of a more laidback approach. perhaps, i am the one who's delusional. and yet YOUR approach to this discussion seemed to make it out like this was YOU against me, when that wasn't the case. jw When I brought forward the importance of the bad calls made by the referees, you lumped me into that category instead of arguing the point on its merits. I find it curious that you make a comment about the media being a 'weathervane' when you yourself are a part of the media. To me, you chastise people for something you have engaged in and then on top of it you criticize the media when you ARE part of that group. So, in summary, you cannot expect people to make valid points and to engage in a civil argument when you don't practice what you preach. Which is it, allow people to criticize you like you criticize them, or just to label many Bills fans as delusional, write what you will, and call it a day? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delete This Account Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 (edited) When I brought forward the importance of the bad calls made by the referees, you lumped me into that category instead of arguing the point on its merits. I find it curious that you make a comment about the media being a 'weathervane' when you yourself are a part of the media. To me, you chastise people for something you have engaged in and then on top of it you criticize the media when you ARE part of that group. So, in summary, you cannot expect people to make valid points and to engage in a civil argument when you don't practice what you preach. Which is it, allow people to criticize you like you criticize them, or just to label many Bills fans as delusional, write what you will, and call it a day? umm, couple of things here: -- in the thread in question, i said it was a curious call, though it didn't decide the game. i then listed numerous stats to point out how poorly the Bills played and didn't deserve to win. someone called it "drivel" and said it's "moronic" that i don't see thier point that the officials essentially decided the game. -- i have never made any comment about the media being a "weathervane." -- when have i criticized the media? -- i have criticized you? you'll be sure to know when i've criticized you, and i've done nothing of the sort. my first post in that thread was: "i hate the fact that the officials allowed the Bengals to generate 450 yards offense. you'd think they'd get in the way of Dalton or Benson in an attempt to stop them. unfair." my second post was: "the Bills managed a season-low 12 first downs. they got into an opponents' territory a season-low three times, after doing that a combined 22 in previous three games. they would've scored 13 points if not for Florence's interception. they punted eight times. their defense has allowed 450 yards in three straight games for only the second time in team history according to STATS LLC. so i see where the officials are ultimately to blame. the call was a curious one, i agree. i don't think it proved anywhere near decisive. good teams rebound from adversity. the Bills overcame their own mistakes in previous two weeks. how anyone can chalk this loss up to the officials really wasn't watching." my third post was: "heading out to buy stock in dairy products. lots a spilt milk out there." my fourth post was: "why is it the refs are bad only when the Bills lose on this board? i'm sensing a trend." "my fifth post was in response to your comment in regards to you going out to buy fertilizer, so i thought i'd get a little cute (weak attempt, but it was an attempt): well, it's been evident your supply is running low. jw (couldn't resist) " i then proceeded to make several points and weak attempts at humor, but at no time did i dismiss your argument outright except to state my case that the catch-no-catch did not decide the game. not once did i suggest what you've written to be drivel or accuse your point of view as being moronic. all that being said, i would like to make it clear here that i completely dismiss the points you've made in this thread because they make absolutely little sense. your accusations are baseless and utterly false. i never called you delusional. i noted there are a few posters here i find to be delusional, with whom it's impossible to argue against. the fact that you're fully in the process of proving my point is not my problem. but keep digging if you must. jw Edited October 4, 2011 by john wawrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 (edited) Giants will crush us. So stop dreaming And Philly will beat us too. The problem with the Bills is we play up or down to the opponents we face. We beat the tough teams and lose to the horrible teams. You're wrong. That has not been the Bills pattern in recent history. That history has shown that the Bills lose to good teams and beat bad teams. Also, if you think Cincinnati is a bad football team, you are being dogmatic and not looking closely at what's going on. Cincinnati and Tennessee are two of the very up-and-coming teams in the NFL. something incredibly strange has happened among Bills fans of late and i can't seem to put my finger on it. several fans on this board and beyond have grown so bold in their belief that the Bills are pure, good, godly and infallible that they've gone so far as to refute any reasonable attempt at perspective and discussion. anyone saying anything hinting at the Bills having faults is suddenly regarded as a traitorous moron, and asked to somehow back up their hypotheses with facts (they're hypotheses so facts aren't part of the equation), told to go fornicate themselves and urged to go root for the Jets, Patriots, Dolphins and so on. i thought there was room on this board to actually have discussions. but it's becoming increasingly apparent that the delusional few have taken the reins. just one person's opinion. jw. So what's new? 6 weeks ago it was the same, but with the opposite bent, i.e. "they suck", Andrew Luck sweepstakes"; "Lucky to win 2 games", "Nix and Gailey are idiots", etc. Anyone suggesting a reasonable chance of success was branded a homer and a moron. I actually see it as a bell shaped curve, a few on each side of the extremes and a bunch in the middle. But as always, shallow water makes much noise. This question has been brought up in countless threads. Some people think they can be a fan of a team but still question the teams methods and think the team is not very good wrt player and coaching talent. Some people think you cannot be a fan of a team if you question the teams methods or think the players or coaches lack talent. You seem to fall into the latter category, but there are some who fall into the former. Simple enough. I have to disagree with you John W and agree more with the three posts below yours (except that Code Monkey forgets the third group of fans who believe that the Bills can do no right and that the decade of ineptitude proves that any decisions they make in the future are doomed to fail). Maybe it's because you haven't been on this forum for that long but this is an equal and opposite reaction… the pendulum is simply swinging in the other direction, IMO. I can only speak for myself, John - but, in my never-ending quest to attain total perfection, I do strive for consistency. I realize, however, that said consistency must necessarily be tempered, at times, with reality. This is why I have now, wisely, backed away from my 19-0 prediction... GO BILLSSS!!!! 18 and 1 baby!!!!! . Now if only we could change your views on Doug Flutie and Jason Peters. Edited October 5, 2011 by San Jose Bills Fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 I have to disagree with you John W and agree more with the three posts below yours (except that Code Monkey forgets the third group of fans who believe that the Bills can do no right and that the decade of ineptitude proves that any decisions they make in the future are doomed to fail). Hmmmm good point. I did forget that group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delete This Account Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 I have to disagree with you John W and agree more with the three posts below yours (except that Code Monkey forgets the third group of fans who believe that the Bills can do no right and that the decade of ineptitude proves that any decisions they make in the future are doomed to fail). Maybe it's because you haven't been on this forum for that long but this is an equal and opposite reaction… the pendulum is simply swinging in the other direction, IMO. fair enough, though there's one cantakerous poster in this thread who seems to be attempting to prove me right. ... jw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralonzo Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Tedy Bruschi's Buy/Sell on the surprise 3-1 teams: Titans: Buy 49ers: Buy Redskins: Buy Bills: Sell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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