For those that wanted Tebow...

[San Jose Bills Fan]

It takes a couple of years for most QBs to develop. I'm not saying that he's going to be great but it's a bit early to be saying I told ya so.

That's true and it also takes a few years for a new GM/Head Coach combo to turn a losing program around. And yet there are many people on this board who'll tell you that Nix and Gailey are bound for failure.

 

I don't understand the point. Tebow not starting has more to do with the Broncos' inability to rape the Dolphins than it has to do with the Broncos distrust of Tebow at the helm. If you've still got Orton, of course he's your starter right now.

Not true. Some of the articles from the last two days point out that Brady Quinn is ahead of Tebow on the depth chart. Tebow is having a hard time completing passes in practice. He's missing wide-open receivers. It's said the locker room is completely behind Orton and the decision makers do not want to alienate the locker room by trading him and dumping the season as a result.

 

I don't think there are too many (rational) people who want to pile on Tebow and wish him to fail. Rather, I think many football fans are annoyed by the mindless assumption that Tebow was destined to succeed simply because of some inherent and undefinable "winner" quality.

 

Tebow's fans were putting SB rings on his fingers before he had ever played a down of NFL football. This, not the man himself, was what people reacted negatively to.

I think this is very true.

 

I think the whole fascination with Tebow is based more on his personality rather than on his potential to actually progress to the next level. Most of the coverage before the draft emphasized his "speed" and "leadership" qualities, and the fact that he was a "winner". But most of the evaluations by real NFL scouts indicated that he wouldn't be able to make the transition. I'm not saying he won't, but there have been a lot of guys that have been through the NFL with the same kind of athletic abilities but couldn't take the next step. I hope he makes it, but so far it doesn't look good.

Agree with this also. The media and fan adulation for the guy became very annoying to me… and I was not alone.

 

I'm not sure anyone anointed Tebow anything. I remember most analysis hating the pick. His fans are his fans.

 

Tebow does have an inherent "winners" quality to him. Listen to his teammates at UF talk about him. Urban Meyer, who might is one of the greatest HCs in recent CFB history said that he was undoubtedly the greatest leader that he's ever been around. Pretty high praise from a guy like Urban.

 

The negative reaction was charged by the media's love affair with TT. Gary Danielson might be solely responsible for it actually.

 

I'd take him on the Bills in a heartbeat.

Bottom line though, in sports, results are all that matters. No matter how great a leader he is, if he can't perform, then it's totally irrelevant. In fact some would be harsher than I and say that if he can't win, he's not really a leader. And yes, you are channeling dog.

 

There's recognizing leadership (which Tebow has in spades) and then there's the irrational assumption that this leadership acts as a Midas Touch that can overcome any and all potential deficiencies.

Ed Zachary.

 

That sounds to me like Belichick doesn't think he can play QB at all in the NFL.

I thought so too. I also thought about the fact that Belichick and Meyer are close friends and that Belichick would NEVER EVER say anything negative about Tim Tebow… one of Meyer's all-time favorites.

 

Kinda early for Denver to look at either QB and make any judgements with such a short off season.

Kinda early to make a lot of judgements.

[CarolinaBill]

I said it before he was drafted and I stick to it now, Tebow's skills from college dont translate to the NFL. These reports only confirm that so far. Big ups to Merrill Hoge for having some balls and railing against football jesus, its about time.

[Zulu Cthulhu]

For all his "winning" attitude, Tebow can't really do any actual winning when he can't get on the field to actually play the game.

 

I don't hate Tebow, I just find the legions of his fanboys embarassing. I think they are in love with his image, and shout down anyone who dares look upon him with a critical eye.

 

The fact is, currently, Tim Tebow is a 3rd string quarterback. He is lagging behind not only Orton, but also Brady Quinn - another guy who got loads of irrational praise simply because he went to Notre Dame.

 

I get it. Tebow has a "winning" smile, loves Jesus and is lily white and that causes a tickle in your collective pants. None of those things will help him develop into a pro quarterback. My advice to Elway and the Broncos is quit wasting time, covert him to fullback now and let him block for Moreno.

[eball]

That pompous ass McDaniels made a royal mess of the Denver roster. Look at the talent he shipped away! It's too bad he can't be ordered to return his salary.

 

I look at what's happened to Denver and what happened in Oakland (paying ridiculous money to Wimbley and Huff while allowing Asomugha, Miller, Gallery to depart), and realize the Bills have far from the worst organization in the NFL.

[thewildrabbit]

To all the Cam Newton lovers, this kid doesn't have that shady past like Newton. His throwing motion might not be as refined at this point but that shouldn't stop him from developing into a top QB.

 

"Tim Tebow is at the head of the list as far as the intangibles are concerned and why wouldn't you take a chance on a guy like that?'' Mayock said. "The second piece of it is that you have to have a certain baseline minimal physical ability to play the position. And I believe he does. Athletically, he's gifted.

 

"From an arm-strength perspective, he's got an above-average arm. It just comes out differently. He's got mechanical issues.''

 

Mayock compared those issues to those of former Texas quarterback Vince Young, the Titans starter selected third overall in the 2006 draft.

 

"I know he's not a starting quarterback in the NFL this year,'' Mayock said of Tebow. "However, I'm betting on that kid…that he's going to be a starting quarterback in the league either two years or three years from now.

 

 

 

 

http://content.usato...-of-nfl-draft/1

 

 

Like I said earlier, it would be foolish for Denver to give up on this kid so quickly. Elway might want that prototypical QB, if given the chance Tebow might very well develop into one.

[Zulu Cthulhu]

The minute after Tim Tebow played his last collegiate game, he started working on a new throwing motion. That was over a year ago, before the 2010 draft. Guess what? His delivery is still a mess. I'm not saying he'll never learn to throw like a pro qb needs to, but it doesn't seem like he's improved his delivery or accuracy at all yet. That's a problem when I assume he's been working at it non stop for over a year now, given his great work ethic.

 

The Mayock quotes aren't persuasive. He simply said the things we all concede about Tebow. He's athletic. Well yeah, i don't think anyone would deny that, even his detractors. He has a strong arm. Again, i don't know anyone who would deny that either. Tebow's trouble isn't a lack of arm strength. It's a lack of accuracy and a slow, telegraphing delivery.

[mob16151]

From everything I've read, Brady Quinn has looked 10 times better than Tebow. Not just Orton.

[thewildrabbit]

The minute after Tim Tebow played his last collegiate game, he started working on a new throwing motion. That was over a year ago, before the 2010 draft. Guess what? His delivery is still a mess. I'm not saying he'll never learn to throw like a pro qb needs to, but it doesn't seem like he's improved his delivery or accuracy at all yet. That's a problem when I assume he's been working at it non stop for over a year now, given his great work ethic.

 

The Mayock quotes aren't persuasive. He simply said the things we all concede about Tebow. He's athletic. Well yeah, i don't think anyone would deny that, even his detractors. He has a strong arm. Again, i don't know anyone who would deny that either. Tebow's trouble isn't a lack of arm strength. It's a lack of accuracy and a slow, telegraphing delivery.

Did you miss the part about 2-3 years down the road? Its been one year so far, and this off season hurt him because he couldn't train with the team.

 

You want to give up on him that's fine, but considering his high character and great work ethic I'd give it some more time. Besides, the kid is a playmaker on the field, put him in a wildcat-option and let him do his thing every now and then like they did at the end of last season. He just might prove to be more of a winner then Orton.

[CSBill]

Tebow for MVP !!!!

[Beerball]

Did you miss the part about 2-3 years down the road? Its been one year so far, and this off season hurt him because he couldn't train with the team.

He's been 'working on his mechanics' since early 2010 and the CBA issues didn't impact that. This type of training would be done with a personal coach, not the team.

[Zulu Cthulhu]

I didn't miss Mayock's prediction, I just disregarded it because neither he nor anyone else can predict the future. I also don't advocate giving up on Tebow - I don't know where you pulled that from.

 

He "might" be a better winner than Orton? So Tebow should get the nod based on that notion, even if Orton thoroughly outplays him in camp? How fair is that to Kyle? Tebow was 1-2 as a starter last year btw.

 

Kyle Orton doesn't have a good win/loss record. But he was the least of denver's problems last year.

[thewildrabbit]

I didn't miss Mayock's prediction, I just disregarded it because neither he nor anyone else can predict the future. I also don't advocate giving up on Tebow - I don't know where you pulled that from.

 

He "might" be a better winner than Orton? So Tebow should get the nod based on that notion, even if Orton thoroughly outplays him in camp? How fair is that to Kyle? Tebow was 1-2 as a starter last year btw.

 

Kyle Orton doesn't have a good win/loss record. But he was the least of denver's problems last year.

Glad you feel you can disregard one of the best talent evaluators (college to NFL) on the planet. Given that you don't value his opinion I'd have to say that most NFL GM's & HC's value it. Mayock has stated many times he has been offered several jobs by NFL teams and turned them all down, he prefers doing what he is doing with the NFL network.

 

Who said anything about starting Tebow over Orton, I merely mentioned they should let him run the option-wildcat and he may eventually prove to be more of a winner.

 

He's been 'working on his mechanics' since early 2010 and the CBA issues didn't impact that. This type of training would be done with a personal coach, not the team.

Ask any NFL player about getting into "football" shape, all the gym-personal coaching reps in the world don't equal what training camp does for a player. Stating that, I can only imagine that the best situation to develop in, is in training camp.

Edited August 4, 2011 by Harvey lives

[Simon]

Glad you feel you can disregard one of the best talent evaluators (college to NFL) on the planet.

 

You do realize you can respect a guy without blindly agreeing with 100% of everything he says.......

[Zulu Cthulhu]

You're right - there's probably no better place to get into football shape than training camp. Of course, that's not what Beerball and i were talking about.

 

Tebow is attempting (and failing, so far) to completely overhaul his throwing motion. You do that one on one with a dedicated QB coach. Training camp is not, as you said, for that. Training camp is for getting into football shape and learning your position within your unit. Training camp is about competing for your place on the roster.

[playman]

they should try to sue mcdaniels. he really destroyed that franchise single handily

[Zulu Cthulhu]

Tebow's place is currently on the bench.

[thewildrabbit]

You're right - there's probably no better place to get into football shape than training camp. Of course, that's not what Beerball and i were talking about.

Tebow is attempting (and failing, so far) to completely overhaul his throwing motion. You do that one on one with a dedicated QB coach. Training camp is not, as you said, for that. Training camp is for getting into football shape and learning your position within your unit. Training camp is about competing for your place on the roster.

 

I get what your both saying about a personal trainer, although It is what I'm talking about, a million reps with a personal trainer won't ever equal game like conditions,which is what you get in training camp. The more reps he gets in camp as well as the more game experience he gets the better he will develop. Kinda tough to undo in one year what he has been doing his entire football life. The College coaches don't really care that much about technique and throwing motions, they care more about winning.

 

 

I like Orton and think he is very much like Ryan Fitzpatrick, and if Tebow was a Buffalo Bill I would still say the kid needs more time to develop

 

 

 

Anyway, kinda funny to read what Bronco fans post about Orton....

 

""It really just shows how bad that extension screwed the Broncos. McDaniels gave Orton $9 MILLION for NO REASON, he would have taken less, he essentially made Orton untradable unless a team is desperate. I still think Miami or Washington might make a run for him though as they are both desperate at the QB position.

 

Still, with every 3rd down not converted, with every botched comeback, the pressure will mount.

 

And worst of all, we may have NO clue what to do in 2012 when it's draft time. That's what really screws over the franchise. Orton is a goner, he will be out of here, Quinn also, it's Tebow's fault if he apparently looks this bad in practice though. ""

http://www.broncosfo...ad.php?t=268121

[KD in CA]

The only reason Tebow is never going to be good in the NFL is his throwing motion. He can't fix it, and if he can't fix it he will always suck. From the time he decides to throw until the ball gets there is far too long. It's the same reason that Leinart will never be good, even though Tebow has a much stronger arm than Leinart.

 

Tebow got away with it in college but in the pros the linemen and LBs and especially DBs are too fast. Has nothing to do with arm strength. He can't do it and he can't change, and there were a lot of scouts, writers, and fans, including myself, who could see that a mile away when he was in college, and when he is in the pros. I would never want him as my QB. All he does is win.

 

 

Fixed.

 

 

[/TSW circa April 2010]

[Beerball]

Ask any NFL player about getting into "football" shape, all the gym-personal coaching reps in the world don't equal what training camp does for a player. Stating that, I can only imagine that the best situation to develop in, is in training camp.

I'm not talking about 'football shape', I'm talking about his mechanics. I'm talking about the fact that the ball starts at his knee when he begins his throwing motion. Those things, mechanical things, are what he would be working with a personal coach to overcome. But as others have said...when the pocket collapses & he's got to instinctively get rid of the ball his mechanics will be effed up.

 

He's a nice guy, has terrific moral character, a great competitor, a leader...but he isn't an NFL QB IMO.

 

You're right - there's probably no better place to get into football shape than training camp. Of course, that's not what Beerball and i were talking about.

 

Tebow is attempting (and failing, so far) to completely overhaul his throwing motion. You do that one on one with a dedicated QB coach. Training camp is not, as you said, for that. Training camp is for getting into football shape and learning your position within your unit. Training camp is about competing for your place on the roster.

Hell froze over...I'm in agreement with Zulu!

 

I get what your both saying about a personal trainer, although It is what I'm talking about, a million reps with a personal trainer won't ever equal game like conditions,which is what you get in training camp. The more reps he gets in camp as well as the more game experience he gets the better he will develop. Kinda tough to undo in one year what he has been doing his entire football life. The College coaches don't really care that much about technique and throwing motions, they care more about winning.

 

 

I like Orton and think he is very much like Ryan Fitzpatrick, and if Tebow was a Buffalo Bill I would still say the kid needs more time to develop

 

 

 

Anyway, kinda funny to read what Bronco fans post about Orton....

 

""It really just shows how bad that extension screwed the Broncos. McDaniels gave Orton $9 MILLION for NO REASON, he would have taken less, he essentially made Orton untradable unless a team is desperate. I still think Miami or Washington might make a run for him though as they are both desperate at the QB position.

 

Still, with every 3rd down not converted, with every botched comeback, the pressure will mount.

 

And worst of all, we may have NO clue what to do in 2012 when it's draft time. That's what really screws over the franchise. Orton is a goner, he will be out of here, Quinn also, it's Tebow's fault if he apparently looks this bad in practice though. ""

http://www.broncosfo...ad.php?t=268121

I told myself that I would never ever get sucked into another Tebow thread...yet here I am again...$9M isn't extravagent for a starting NFL QB. What is Tebow's salary plus prorated bonus for 2011?

[billsfreak]

LOL.

 

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/09000d5d82136d17/Mile-high-limbo-for-Tebow?module=HP11_cp

I am not saying that Tim Tebow is the next Johnny Unitas, but you can't write anyone off after one year, a year that when he did play, he wasn't that bad. If a QB is going to be written off after the rookie year that Tebow had, then Peyton Manning who pretty much sucked his rookie year would have been cut immediately. Little early too be proudly waving your "I told you so" banner. There are alot of questions about Tebow, but looking at our QB situation here, I mean we essentially have a roster of three backups and one who probably shouldn't even be in the NFL, so it still would have been worth a 2nd round pick on him. Could he have done much worse at this stage then our draft class from 2010 did? Not really. I bet you aren't willing to write off Spiller yet after a terrible rookie season, so why Tebow?

Edited August 4, 2011 by billsfreak