Mr. WEO Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 There is no reason, IMO, to believe for one second that Ralph Wilson would spend his entire adult life keeping the team in Buffalo, and saying and doing everything he has said and done for 50+ years, and then, after all that, just let the team go and let his legacy be that he let the team leave. No chance of that, regardless of whether you think he is all about money (which he is not). Ralph desperately wants the Bills to stay in Buffalo after he passes, and he wants his family to get the best deal and most money they can under that scenario, and I will bet anyone here that there is a specific plan in place to all but ensure that happens. It's possible some billionaire would outbid a local entity by 200 million or so and steal the team away but that is a highly unlikely scenario. Ralph very much cares about keeping the team in Buffalo. If this is true, wouldn't it be more likely to happen if he was alive when the team changed hands? Why doesn't he sell the team now? Or at least a controlling interest in it. What's in it for him at this point? Does he really think he is doing a good job directing the operations of this team? Or that he would do better than the next guy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zow2 Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 This whole notion that small market teams like the Bills will be hurt badly because they cannot spend to the cap like the big market teams is hogwash, imo. Look at the Sabres for example. The new owner comes in and says they aren't here to make money, they want to win and will spend whatever it takes. Of course winning will generate profits because winning SELLS. The NFL generates much more revenue of course and there has to be a handful of super rich people out there that would buy the Bills at whatever cost and keep the team here. I'm just not buying the fact that if they go to open auction, they will automatically be bought and moved out of the area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruceisloose78 Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 ok ok there's only one way to settle this, nevergiveup is there a plan to keep the team in buffalo? please tell us uninformed folk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloWest Posted June 23, 2011 Author Share Posted June 23, 2011 Yeah Wawrow, the media stirs the pot. Maybe you don't. But Mike Florio was stirring the pot. "Bloggers" were stirring the pot. Sullivan was stirring the pot. They don't have any idea what's going on and yet they go to the most somber, doomsday scenario possible. Why? Because it causes hits on their websites, gets nervous fans creating talk and that's good for ad money. Bills could leave. But reading the tea leaves I would say it's more likely they stay. And I do believe Mr. Wilson has a plan. Even if the Bills went to the highest bidder (which I don't believe will be the case), why does everyone assume there is nobody, who would keep the team in WNY, who can win the bid? Exactly...Of course TwoBills Drive is going to post issues about relocation-It is a Buffalo Bills Message Board, and it is an issue we are all looking at closely as we love the team. I'm not referring to all of the media either-but when Florio is on it, and Sullivan to a lesser degree is on it, and then it is on an AM Sports talk station in San Diego you have to ask if there is any REAL, significance behind this conjecture, and what I get is-"No ,Not really, just speculation that gets people buzzing"...the AM Drive host on my station simply told me that he "...wanted to create controversy and get people talking" by posing questions to Florio about San Diego/Buffalo/Cinci. He didnt know one way or another what would happen to Buffalo/Cinci and so on. I asked him point blank off air if he had heard anyting from his best friend and college roommate-Alex Van Pelt , while he was with The Bills for all of those years and he said Alex told him nothing/knew about any sale, move and so on...And that is coming from a guy who was with The Bills for years, on the field and as a coach, and also knew Kelly pretty damn well....Was he being secretive because his best friend is a talk show host? Maybe ...But I just dont think Florio or Sullivan know anything really-just speculation...And what Brandon said on WGR today was encouraging. All we can do is hope for the best, and hope the team is good this season-Winning matters too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delete This Account Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Exactly...Of course TwoBills Drive is going to post issues about relocation-It is a Buffalo Bills Message Board, and it is an issue we are all looking at closely as we love the team. I'm not referring to all of the media either-but when Florio is on it, and Sullivan to a lesser degree is on it, and then it is on an AM Sports talk station in San Diego you have to ask if there is any REAL, significance behind this conjecture, and what I get is-"No ,Not really, just speculation that gets people buzzing"...the AM Drive host on my station simply told me that he "...wanted to create controversy and get people talking" by posing questions to Florio about San Diego/Buffalo/Cinci. He didnt know one way or another what would happen to Buffalo/Cinci and so on. I asked him point blank off air if he had heard anyting from his best friend and college roommate-Alex Van Pelt , while he was with The Bills for all of those years and he said Alex told him nothing/knew about any sale, move and so on...And that is coming from a guy who was with The Bills for years, on the field and as a coach, and also knew Kelly pretty damn well....Was he being secretive because his best friend is a talk show host? Maybe ...But I just dont think Florio or Sullivan know anything really-just speculation...And what Brandon said on WGR today was encouraging. All we can do is hope for the best, and hope the team is good this season-Winning matters too. so it was one guy. a guy you deal with, and "we" in the media get all lumped in as a band of pot-stirrers. Florio is well connected, thus can be regarded as someone having informed speculation. what did Sully write that was off the wall? he wrote Bills fans should be concerned about these predators. how is that wrong. if i were someone wanting to keep the Bills in Buffalo, i would be concerned as well. the Bills may leave. they may stay. jw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mead107 Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Hay, just another thought. Lot of people thought the world was going to end this spring. I Think that if you think the BILLS are moving you all should send me your memorabilia. Don't forget to send me this years tickets . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Hay, just another thought. Lot of people thought the world was going to end this spring. I Think that if you think the BILLS are moving you all should send me your memorabilia. Don't forget to send me this years tickets . Is this OJ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 (edited) so it was one guy. a guy you deal with, and "we" in the media get all lumped in as a band of pot-stirrers. Florio is well connected, thus can be regarded as someone having informed speculation. what did Sully write that was off the wall? he wrote Bills fans should be concerned about these predators. how is that wrong. if i were someone wanting to keep the Bills in Buffalo, i would be concerned as well. the Bills may leave. they may stay. Sullivan is essentially saying that since we don't know Ralph's succession plan, there IS no succession plan. He also perpetuates the false notion that the team will be "auctioned-off to the highest bidder." Not to mention that the only way the Bills move to LA is if Ralph dies before the LA market is filled. I'm sure they want a team in LA soon and won't be waiting for Ralph's death to fill it. So is Sully saying we should be nervous that Ralph will die soon? Edited June 24, 2011 by Doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple haze Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 (edited) If this is true, wouldn't it be more likely to happen if he was alive when the team changed hands? Why doesn't he sell the team now? Or at least a controlling interest in it. What's in it for him at this point? Does he really think he is doing a good job directing the operations of this team? Or that he would do better than the next guy? Because it's HIS business. He built it. Whether you like the job he does or not his product obviously means something to you since you're on this board talking about it. He won't own the team soon enough. And that doesn't mean they are moving. so it was one guy. a guy you deal with, and "we" in the media get all lumped in as a band of pot-stirrers. Florio is well connected, thus can be regarded as someone having informed speculation. what did Sully write that was off the wall? he wrote Bills fans should be concerned about these predators. how is that wrong. if i were someone wanting to keep the Bills in Buffalo, i would be concerned as well. the Bills may leave. they may stay. jw How is that wrong? How 'bout we have heard all of this before? So talk about something new, not speculation. Wilson has NEVER been quoted saying he will sell the team to the highest bidder that I have seen. I have seen articles where the reporter surmised that and tagged it to Wilson. And then it becomes the normal line in the doomsday forecasts in future articles on the subject. Informed speculation? Unless Mr. Wilson tells us no one knows what his plans are. Not knowing the plan does not mean there is no plan. Tea leaves can be read that would keep the team in WNY too. But that doesn't create a sensational headline though does it? It isn't one guy. One guy says or writes something then others jump on that and act like they are breaking news. The media has changed a lot over the past ten years. Print and television. There is no denying that. Doesn't mean ALL reporters are the same, but there are many, who are just as much entertainers as they are "journalists" now days. No reason to be sensitive about it. Fans have changed through the years too and not always for the better. It is what it is. This reaction though should come as no surprise. Buffalo fans are a rough and tumble, emotional and passionate bunch; if the Bills did wind up leaving things will get ugly and hopefully not violently ugly for the new owner and various league officials. But I wouldn't be surprised if security is needed. Bills won't just be hi-jacked out of town and folks roll over and let it go. Modell still can't go back to Cleveland. And there are Bills fans everywhere. And no less passionate than the ones living in B-Lo. A LOT of us in Sourthern Cali. with Buffalo roots and otherwise. That being said I doubt the Bills go anywhere. Edited June 24, 2011 by purple haze Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typical TBD Guy Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 (edited) Some facts to consider in this topic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_United_States_Metropolitan_Statistical_Areas When you add Buffalo (#47) and Rochester (#51) together, WNY looks more like the size of Pittsburgh (#22). When you add Toronto and the Golden Horseshoe region, the Bills arguably control the 4th largest metro area in the NFL. Also note New Orleans (#46) and Green Bay (#153), two small markets with weaker economies than Buffalo but still thriving in the NFL. Edited June 24, 2011 by Randy Constan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Some facts to consider in this topic: http://en.wikipedia....atistical_Areas When you add Buffalo (#47) and Rochester (#51) together, WNY looks more like the size of Pittsburgh (#22). When you add Toronto and the Golden Horseshoe region, the Bills arguably control the 4th largest metro area in the NFL. Also note New Orleans (#46) and Green Bay (#153), two small markets with weaker economies than Buffalo but still thriving in the NFL. That's fine, Randy but again, population is only one part of the equation. Wealth is a big part of it too. The per capita income in most of the region is pretty small, I would guess. Corporate customers are a big part of it too. There is a shortage of corporate customers in the Bills market. In short, the team sells very little luxury seating (and at below average NFL prices) and our average ticket price is among the lowest in the league. Total revenues from paid attendance are probably in the lowest 4th or 5th of the NFL. So in that regard, total market population is secondary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Anyways, Chris Brown interviewed Russ Brandon on a wide range of subjects… http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-1/Bills-CEO-covers-range-of-topics/2065b48b-5d11-4410-9a4c-f0ed150f87a3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typical TBD Guy Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 (edited) That's fine, Randy but again, population is only one part of the equation. Wealth is a big part of it too. The per capita income in most of the region is pretty small, I would guess. Corporate customers are a big part of it too. There is a shortage of corporate customers in the Bills market. In short, the team sells very little luxury seating (and at below average NFL prices) and our average ticket price is among the lowest in the league. Total revenues from paid attendance are probably in the lowest 4th or 5th of the NFL. So in that regard, total market population is secondary. I completely understand (and agree with) the point you're making, but it is nevertheless interesting to note that the overly simplistic metric of population size happens to be significantly correlated with "NFL-caliber economic vitality." 75% of the NFL (24 of 32 teams) is located within the 26 largest metro markets defined by that list. Kansas City (#29) and Indianapolis (#34) aren't far behind. The Titans represent the state of Tennessee (mainly Nashville and Memphis at #38 and #41). The Panthers represent the state of Carolina (mainly Charlotte and Raleigh at #33 and #48). I already described Buffalo's situation with Toronto and Rochester. Green Bay is an historical anomaly, but they do represent Milwaukee and the entire state of Wisconsin which is kind of like one very large suburb of Chicago (#3). Population-wise, the Saints and Jags are the only two teams that don't fit this "large population = viable NFL market" idea. Is there correlation without causation here? I don't know. But it does seem like people tend to follow the money and that the money also tends to follow the people. So in the absence of strong economic data for U.S. cities, population size is a decent substitute. Sorry about that digression, everyone... Back on topic: us BUFFALO Bills fans may have every reason to be concerned about losing the team, but there's also reason for optimism. Pegula, Jacobs, Rich, and Golisano have publicly voiced their willingness to do what needs to be done to keep the Bills in Buffalo. Same with Kelly's mystery investor group. There may be others we never hear about (Danny Wegman?). Furthermore, a Buffalo ownership group only needs to worry about funding the franchise purchase fee plus $100 million or so for RW Stadium upkeep (which Albany would likely pay). LA and Toronto ownership groups would also need to worry about a completely new stadium ($1 billion?) plus the relocation fee plus the uncertainty of a new fanbase willing to support the Bills when the team sucks on the field. Finally, the stadium situations with the Vikings and Chargers are reaching a crisis point. If Ralph can hang out for 2 more years, those two teams could very well beat the Bills to L.A. Edited June 24, 2011 by Randy Constan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple haze Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 (edited) We need Ontario to embrace the Bills, at least for the short term, for regionalization to work. They need to feel the Bills are there's in some way to get those corporations involved. It's not impossible at all. It just takes time. TO will be hard pressed to get it's own team with that stadium and the CFL there. A game or two might be there only NFL shot. Edited June 24, 2011 by purple haze Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homey D. Clown Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 I can understand the need to keep things quiet if Jim Kelly truly has a buyers group in place, but it's almost too quiet, like maybe they aren't quite prepared for an inevitable bidding war. Serious speculation of course. I still can't get over the way the future of the franchise has been shackled to a worst case scenario once ralph moves on. there are a lot of rich bastards out there just aching to buy an NFL team that are not from Buffalo, or care about WNY as a whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Another silver lining here… two actually. The economy is in the dumpster. Many state and local governments are seeing record budget deficits and accumulated debt. The markets are down so a lot of the wealthiest people have seen a reduction in their personal wealth. So in some regards, this is the worst time to buy an NFL team and/or build a stadium. This could factor favorably into the Bills situation as it comes to a head. Secondly, from what I'm hearing from the Bills via Brandon's statements, as soon as a new CBA is signed the Bills and the County will begin serious talks on a new lease. That lease is between the club and the county (not the league) and could go a long way towards securing the Bills future in Buffalo… by securing their near term long enough for the dust to settle on the L.A. situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delete This Account Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 i would be concerned. jw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 i would be concerned. jw Many thanks, John. That's quite depressing hearing this from you, but it is what it is. Any specific basis (if you can say) or just a general vibe on this? Personally, I think the only really workable way for the team to stay here post-Ralph is for the team to regionalize and become something like "the Niagara Frontier Bills" playing in a stadium between Toronto and B'lo to draw on both fanbases (and, most importantly, Toronto's corporate luxury suite base)..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple haze Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 i would be concerned. jw Why, specifically? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloWest Posted June 24, 2011 Author Share Posted June 24, 2011 Why, specifically? Like I said -To keep the pot nicely stirred.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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