Did Ralph Already Grant Toronto An Option To Buy?

[ICanSleepWhenI'mDead]

i would not discount the dig-down plan.

 

jw

1. Thanks for sharing - - the Internet is a great resource for finding info but sometimes there's no substitute for actually talking to someone (regardless of whether it's the SkyDome architect or some other knowledgeable source).

 

2. You previously said "there is no reason to believe Canadian or Ontario taxpayers will pony up a large chunk of cash for a new stadium. a large amount is going to have to come from private sources."

 

At this point, it looks like I'm not going to get an answer about whether that statement was (a) stating your own opinion or (b) paraphrasing what a source knowledgeable about the Bills In Toronto deal told you shortly after the deal was made. But it isn't your credibility I'm concerned about - -it's the credibility of your source(s).

 

I can think of lots of reasons why the Toronto people would want to sandbag a WNY reporter by downplaying their ability to eventually buy the Bills' franchise (with or without an existing option to buy or right of first refusal to buy). Your underestimate of Larry Tanenbaum's wealth makes me wonder if your source(s) sandbagged you. I would consider it further evidence that you were being sandbagged if somebody on the Toronto side of the Bills In Toronto Series deal told you around 2007 or early 2008 that "there is no reason to believe Canadian or Ontario taxpayers will pony up a large chunk of cash for a new stadium. a large amount is going to have to come from private sources."

 

Why? Take a look at this September 21, 2006 report:

 

http://www.tribemagazine.com/board/sports/122933-new-soccer-stadium-mlse-profits-taxpayers-get-screwed.html

 

"While crews work to fill out the aluminum skeleton of the new soccer stadium at the CNE, Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment acknowledges it has already made money from the taxpayer-subsidized venture.

Yesterday MLSE announced that the Bank of Montreal (BMO) has bought naming rights to the stadium for the next 10 years.

Now known as BMO (pronounced "bee-mo") Field, the 20,000-seat stadium will host Toronto FC of Major League Soccer, as well as several 2007 under-20 World Cup games next spring.

Last year the federal government pledged $27 million to the project, while the provincial government added $8 million and the City of Toronto provided $9.8 million and the land the stadium stands on.

MLSE, which owns Toronto FC, promised to pay the remaining $18 million for the project, with up to $10 million of that cash coming from the sale of naming rights.After a press conference yesterday to announce the deal, MLSE executive vice-president and chief operating officer Tom Anselmi wouldn't place a dollar value on the deal.

"It's a private matter between two private parties," he said.

Last month the Star reported that the 10-year naming rights deal between BMO and MLSE would be worth $27 million."

 

================================================================================

 

Regardless of what the political climate is like in Toronto now for building a stadium (more on that later), the people involved on the Toronto end of the deal with the Bills must have known in 2007/2008 about how little private money was being used to build the new Toronto soccer stadium, and how quickly that private money would be recouped in the naming rights deal. Now admittedly building a new NFL stadium would be a far more ambitious and expensive project, but the way in which the roughly $60 million soccer stadium was being publicly funded must have warmed the hearts of Ted Rogers and Larry Tanenbaum.

Edited May 26, 2011 by ICanSleepWhenI'mDead

[ICanSleepWhenI'mDead]

i would not discount the dig-down plan.

 

jw

If there really is at least some preliminary analysis or discussion of the Rogers Centre dig-down plan going on in Toronto, it ocurred to me that maybe the same Toronto councilman's comments about a potential new waterfront stadium might also be something more than just a fantasy.

 

Although it's difficult to interpret what it means, I was a little surprised to find this reference to a "contemplated" new NFL stadium in "The Journal of Commmerce - - Western Canada's Construction Newspaper:"

 

http://www.journalofcommerce.com/cgi-bin/project.pl?rm=show_top10_project&id=30b1c306828fe4ea80117667da32a87b1ae35029

 

"STADIUM Proj: 9135077-2

Toronto, Metro Toronto Reg ON CONTEMPLATED

RL Hearn site, Portlands, M5V

$50,000,000 est

Note: This project is extremely preliminary. The tenant has a long-term lease for the site. How an architect will be secured is undetermined. Schedules for design, tender and construction have not been set. Further update winter 2011.

Contact information for the Owner's Representative has been corrected. Waterfront Toronto is not involved in this project.

Project: proposed construction of a NFL stadium on the site of the abandoned RL Hearn generating plant in the Portlands on Toronto's Waterfront. The project would include demolition of the existing building and reuse of some of the existing foundation.

Development: New

Category: Recreational bldgs

Tenant The Cortel Group, 2800 Hwy 7 W Ste 301, Concord ON L4K 1W8, Phone: 905-695-0802 Fax: 905-695-0801; Joe Derocchis

Owner's representative Ontario Power Generation Inc, 700 University Avenue, Toronto ON M5G 1X6, Phone: 416-592-2555 Fax: 416-592-4181; Ted Gruetzner

First report Wed Apr 27, 2011.

This report Wed May 04, 2011."

===========================================================================

 

The site is a publicly owned but apparently abandoned power plant (the new Toronto soccer stadium was recently built on publicly owned land). The $50 million estimate is crazy-low for an NFL,stadium, which makes me wonder if this is just a "construction lead" posting of some sort - - kind of a "heads up" for people in the Canadian construction business about future potential projects they might want to track so they can later bid on them if they ever actually happen. It also seems odd that the info appears in a newspaper nominally targeted to Western Canada.

 

I tried to see what I could find on the "Cortel Group" which is listed as having a "long-term" lease for the site. Turns out it is a real estate development company that has been involved in at least one Toronto condo project. I haven't done much digging on the developer, but I did find an article stating that its president in 2009 was Mario Cortellucci. Mario donated $2 million to the "Hunting and Fishing Heritage Centre" in Peterborough and is described as a philanthropist and entrepeneur. Don't know how wealthy he is.

 

http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/Honorary-Degree-Conferred-Upon-Mario-Cortellucci-1056040.htm

 

It's just a guess at this point, but maybe ol' Mario tied up the power plant site with a long term lease at a cheap price, and upon hearing talk in Toronto about the possibility of a new stadium, pitched his site to the Toronto mayor and his councilman brother. If they want to use the site, they presumably would have to buy out his existing long term lease to free the site for stadium development.

 

There has been speculation that Rogers Communications may have played a role in getting Doug Ford interested in the powerplant site for a new stadium:

 

http://spacingtoronto.ca/2011/04/18/lorinc-let%E2%80%99s-play-ball-with-the-waterfront-again/

 

"It is interesting to note that on March 9, a team of three in-house lobbyists from Rogers — including the president of Rogers Media, the division that owns the company's sports properties -- paid a visit to Doug Ford, ostensibly to talk about cell phone towers.

 

Now, as far as I know, city bureaucrats rubber-stamp cell phone tower applications, so it’s difficult to know why Rogers — which owns the Blue Jays and the Rogers Centre and is famously on the prowl for an NFL franchise — would need to dispatch a platoon of high-ranking arm-twisters to chat up Doug on such a quotidian matter. Perhaps something else came up in the course of a congenial conversation.

 

Lo and behold, as my colleague Marcus Gee reported in the Globe and Mail on Saturday, Doug a month later has found himself musing publicly about the Hearn Generating Station as a venue for a NFL football stadium. He’s certainly not the first businessman to think about building such a facility on the portlands. Various schemes have surfaced over the years, including a smelly gambit by the former city agency TEDCO to extend grocery magnet Steve Stavros’ lease on a large chunk of waterfront real estate that looked to be a potential stadium site (the secret deal was later nixed).

 

Tactically, then, the Fords’ conspicuously public aspersions about WT may in fact be aimed at prompting the other two shareholders to crack open the agency’s plans so they can re-arrange the long-range capital budget and cancel the sorts of investments the Fords don’t care for. After all, an NFL stadium certainly won’t get built without a generous dollop of gravy from the public sector, and it seems as if Doug’s had some ideas on where the city can find those dollars."

==============================================================

The connection between the March 9th meeting and the powerplant site seems pretty thin. Maybe the March 9th meeting was about the dig-down plan instead? Hard to know, but it sure seems like there is a lot of NFL stadium-related talk in Toronto these days.

 

Finally, the "Steve Stavros" mentioned above was at one time the majority owner of MLSE, but apparently sold his majority stake to the Ontario Teachers' Pension Fund in 2003.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Stavro

[Delete This Account]

um, after failing to read any of the links you've provided, or muster the energy to acknowledge anything you might or might not have posted, because, really, who has the time to read all of this stuff, i've come to the conclusion that the only response i can provide in this vast and speculative thread -- filled with one report after another, which apparently are supposed to tie all of this together in one neat bow in which the answer is apparently apparent -- is: so?

 

jw

Edited May 27, 2011 by john wawrow

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

Pardon my not reading the whole thread.. or if posted elsewhere

 

http://blogs.wsj.com/dailyfix/2011/05/26/bills-draw-another-interested-buyer/

 

High-profile bond-fund manager Jeffrey Gundlach says he’s in the early stages of attempting to acquire the Buffalo Bills.

 

“I’m trying to put a group together to buy it,” he said Thursday, adding that he has floated the idea to several wealthy clients for whom he manages money. The discussions are in the early stages, he said. “Now, I’m thinking about thinking about it.”

 

Brought up in Buffalo, Gundlach was a star fund manager for Trust Co. of the West, or TCW, which he joined as a bond analyst in 1985. After an acrimonious split with TCW, Gundlach founded DoubleLine Capital, which is headquartered in Los Angeles.

[ICanSleepWhenI'mDead]

um, after failing to read any of the links you've provided, or muster the energy to acknowledge anything you might or might not have posted, because, really, who has the time to read all of this stuff, i've come to the conclusion that the only response i can provide in this vast and speculative thread -- filled with one report after another, which apparently are supposed to tie all of this together in one neat bow in which the answer is apparently apparent -- is: so?

 

jw

I was pretty up front in the OP that the question of whether Ralph already granted Toronto an option to buy or a right of first refusal to buy is speculative. I don't even have a sloppy bow to tie it all together, much less a neat one. Feel free to read as much or as little as you like of my posts or the associated links that I've provided here.

 

But in answer to "so?" - - -

 

We have a 90+ year old owner who has never publicly stated, as far as I know, that he has made any arrangements to help keep the Bills in Buffalo after his death. But he has publicly stated that the team will be sold after his death, as opposed to left to family members. At the same time, the NFL has been at least talking about eventual international expansion, and both billionaire businessmen and Toronto politicians have publicly stated that they want to bring an NFL team to Toronto. Rogers Communications has already invested in marketing the Bills to the Toronto area for several years, and despite the death of Ted Rogers, has not disavowed interest in bringing an NFL team to Toronto as far as I know.

 

I happen to be interested in what will happen to the Bills after Ralph's death, and I think the Toronto situation bears watching. I doubt that I'm the only one. Even if it turns out that Ralph has NOT granted any sort of option or right of first refusal to anyone, Toronto people are potential bidders in any future post-Ralph sale of the Bills.

 

So as I find information relevant to Toronto's interest or ability to eventually buy the Bills and move them to Toronto (with or without the benefit of any existing option or right of first refusal), I will probably post it here. Anyone who's not interested in the topic can pretty easily ignore this thread if they wish - - I am sure many will. But the deeper I dig, the more concerned I get that the Bills may have Toronto ownership in a few years.

 

I won't assume that your silence indicates that you agree with anything I say - - but when you do post your thoughts here they are fair game for comment and evaluation - - just like anyone else (including me).

 

Pardon my not reading the whole thread.. or if posted elsewhere

 

http://blogs.wsj.com/dailyfix/2011/05/26/bills-draw-another-interested-buyer/

 

High-profile bond-fund manager Jeffrey Gundlach says hes in the early stages of attempting to acquire the Buffalo Bills.

 

Im trying to put a group together to buy it, he said Thursday, adding that he has floated the idea to several wealthy clients for whom he manages money. The discussions are in the early stages, he said. Now, Im thinking about thinking about it.

 

Brought up in Buffalo, Gundlach was a star fund manager for Trust Co. of the West, or TCW, which he joined as a bond analyst in 1985. After an acrimonious split with TCW, Gundlach founded DoubleLine Capital, which is headquartered in Los Angeles.

Thanks - - this thread is pretty long, so there's no need to read it all before posting here, at least as far as I'm concerned.

Edited June 9, 2011 by ICanSleepWhenI'mDead

[tennesseeboy]

Painful subject but certainly you raise a number of facts that would work toward the possibility of a sale to Toronto, and the fact that Ralph already is playing some games there adds fuel to the fire. In the end it will be about who puts the best package together and whether the league buys into the deal. A decision made very very far above our respective foodchains.

[ICanSleepWhenI'mDead]

From http://www.jeffreyteam.com/blog/search/real-estate-toronto-2011/ (significant portion reproduced below - scroll down to the 5/16/11 entry of this link to see the rest):

 

"An influential Vaughan developer, who donated generously to Mayor Ford’s pre- and post-election fundraising drives, controls a long-term lease on the Port Lands’ Hearn Generating Station, which has been proposed as a site for an NFL stadium by the mayor’s brother Doug.

 

Developer Mario Cortellucci, together with various relatives and individuals who listed his company’s premises on their donor forms, contributed $30,000 to the mayor’s campaign, about half of which was raised following the election as part of a multi-candidate effort to eliminate campaign deficits. He also secured a private meeting with Rob Ford, according to scheduling documents released under access to information laws.

 

The figures, based on election contribution filings, were compiled by York University political scientist Robert MacDermid. “The important point here is that when a councillor or mayor runs a deficit and wins, every person seeking influence crowds into the subsequent fundraising events.”

 

Adrienne Batra, the mayor’s spokesperson, says Mr. Cortellucci wanted to discuss a charitable organization Mr. Ford and his brother Doug “might be interested in getting involved in.” Neither Mr. Cortellucci nor Doug Ford responded to requests for interviews. Ms. Batra declined to reveal the charity, saying it was a “private meeting.”

 

Owned by Ontario Power Generation, the iconic but abandoned Hearn site has been leased since 2002 to Studios of America, controlled by Mr. Cortellucci. The city issued a demolition permit on Dec. 15.

 

OPG spokesperson Ted Gruetzner says the lease gives the company broad latitude to re-develop the property. “It’s between the city and the Studio to work through this.”

 

While Mr. Cortellucci’s development companies in the past have pledged hundreds of thousands of dollars in contributions to right-of-centre municipal and provincial candidates, Prof. MacDermid’s analysis shows the 2010 race was his first serious foray into Toronto politics. In 2006, Mr. Cortellucci and another relative gave just $2,500 to Jane Pitfield’s mayoral campaign. In 2010, he donated $4,000 and $2,000 to George Smitherman and Joe Pantalone respectively.

 

The Studio venture is largely considered to be moribund, and the massive structure’s future continues to be the subject of much speculation. During its Dec. 16 meeting city council voted 39-1 to urge OPG to consult broadly about the heritage value of the Hearn before proceeding with the demolition. Both the mayor and his brother voted in support of the motion.

 

However, in a recent interview with The Globe and Mail, the mayor’s brother said a stadium at the Hearn site could be the anchor for a massive redevelopment of the Portlands that would “turn this dump site into a wow factor.” It would include dramatically designed residential buildings and high-end retailers such as Macy’s department store. A monorail elevated transit system would link it to downtown.

 

Meeting with Rogers

 

The Globe has learned that NFL football in Toronto was discussed in a March meeting between Rogers officials and Doug Ford.

 

According to the city’s lobbyist registry, Councillor Ford in mid-March met with three Rogers executives, including Rogers Media president Keith Pelly, who oversees the company’s sports assets, including the Rogers Centre and the Blue Jays.

 

The registry indicates the three officials sought the meeting to discuss “cell towers.” But Rogers spokesperson Jan Innes said they also discussed the “Bills in Toronto” series with the mayor’s brother.

[ICanSleepWhenI'mDead]

This information was previously posted in a lightly followed thread about the CFL's Hamilton TiCats team. I realize that the political situation may be far different with respect to bringing the NFL to Toronto as opposed to saving the CFL in Hamilton, but it may shed some light on how stadium building or remodeling projects can get funded north of the border:

===================================================================================================

 

Ivor Wynne stadium in Hamilton, Ontario is going to be rebuilt and expanded - - but still way, way too small for an NFL team.

 

http://newscliptv.com/local/3175.html

 

What I find interesting, though, is the extent to which city, provincial and federal government money will be used to fund the roughly $ 150 million project. If I am reading the article correctly, here's where the stadium rebuild money is coming from:

 

Canadian federal gov't - - - $35.0 million

Ontario provincial gov't - - $57.5 million

Hamilton city gov't - - - - - $51.5 million

New naming rights - - - - - $ 6.0 million

Ti-cats team contributes - $ 3.0 million

.

Total $153.0 million

 

The Ticats are only putting up slightly less than 2% of the cost of the project.

[ICanSleepWhenI'mDead]

Although this article is over four months old, if it was posted in other threads, I didn't see it. Councilman Ford says in the article that the Bills are not being targeted, but I thought the fact that FOUR separate groups expressed interest in bringing an NFL team to Toronto was noteworthy.

 

http://www.sportsnet.ca/football/nfl/2011/01/21/toronto_jaguars/

 

"Four separate groups interested in buying a struggling NFL team and moving it Toronto have approached Mayor Rob Ford since his election in October, city councillor Doug Ford said Friday.

 

Paul Godfrey, chairman of the Ontario Lottery and Gaming Corporation and head of the PostMedia newspaper chain, has long been the torchbearer for efforts to bring the NFL north, while more recently Rogers Communications Inc., has moved to the forefront with its Bills in Toronto series.

 

That two other parties are also in pursuit of a team is news. Ford didn't identify the parties, but said City Hall is ready to help them make it happen."

[trolls_r_us]

The writing is on the wall.

 

To anyone NOT a Bills fan, the Bills make the most "sense."

 

The NFL can sell it in the PR battle as "they aren't really moving the way the Browns did... They'll be an hour away from Buffalo! This strengthens the team in the REGION... blah blah blah"

 

Then ESPN will play it off as no big deal, saying "So they aren't really moving any more than the Patriots moved away from Boston.... See, it's all ok... Now Lebron, Lebron, Lebron....Brady, Brady, Brady, (belch) Manning, Manning, Manning..."

 

And that will be that. To most sports fans, the Bills will basically not have moved at all.

[mattsox]

This isn't a comedy thread - - far from it. Could Toronto businessmen already have either an outright option to purchase the franchise or a right-of-first-refusal to match anybody else's offer to buy the franchise - - both triggered by Ralph's death? Could they have such rights either with or without having already purchased a minority ownership interest in Buffalo Bills, Inc.?

 

I would actually LIKE people to shoot this theory down if they can - - I'm not claiming it's actually happened, but I'm having difficulty seeing why it's not plausible.

 

It's easier to understand the rationale for this theory if I lay some facts out in roughly chronological order:

 

1. It's beyond dispute that the Buffalo NFL franchise is actually owned by Buffalo Bills, Inc. - - a New York Corporation. The Brady suit made ownership allegations that NFL court pleadings, including those filed in the 8th Circuit, have confirmed. I've previously posted a link to official New York State corporation records showing that Ralph Wilson is connected to that same company. If anybody wants proof I'll go back and dig up the links upon request.

 

2. The NFL Constitution and Bylaws (as amended through 2006 which is the most recent version I've been able to find online), establishes a few more facts:

 

(a) The "Home Territory" of the Buffalo franchise, as that term is defined in Article IV, Section 4.1, at page 14/292 of the Constitution and Bylaws, extends for 75 miles in every direction from the corporate limits of the City of Buffalo. This "Home Territory" therefore includes Toronto.

 

(b) The Constitution and Bylaws, at Article IV, section 4.2© at page 15/292, prohibits any other NFL club from playing a game within the home territory of the Buffalo franchise unless the Buffalo team is a participant in the game.

 

© Notwithstanding the above, per Article III, section 3.1(B) at page 5/292, a new Toronto team could be admitted into the league if 24 of the 32 team owners vote in favor of doing so.

 

http://static.nfl.com/static/content//public/static/html/careers/pdf/co_.pdf

 

3. On August 29, 2005 Hurricane Katrina hits New Orleans, damaging the Superdome and creating speculation about the future of the Saints franchise in New Orleans.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Hurricane_Katrina

 

4. "Early in September 2006 Canada ’s two most important sports entities began the process that might one day create one of the largest sports ownership groups in North America ..."

 

There are people with money, or access to money, in Toronto who have wanted, for a long time, to buy an NFL team and have it play games in Toronto. See this October 12, 2007 posting of an article apparently originally written by Howard Bloom for Sports Business News - it gives some background about several Toronto businessmen and their interest in bringing the NFL to Toronto:

 

http://sportsbiznews.blogspot.com/2007/10/nfl-expansion-to-canada-will-not.html

 

5. According to SI's Peter King, an otherwise unidentified Canadian consortium made an offer to buy the Saints for a billion dollars that was turned down by the Saints' ownership. A Toronto newspaper speculates, in an article published on September 25, 2006, that the consortium was probably a group from Toronto.

 

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/archives/article843833.ece

 

6. In an interview with the Buffalo Evening News that took place no later than June 17, 2007, Ralph Wilson confirmed for the umpteenth time that the team will be sold upon his death. He also said that he would not leave the team to his wife. Perhaps significantly in my view, this is the very last time that I can find any public comments by Ralph Wilson where he was willing to say much of anything specific about what would happen to the team after his death. I have seen lots of articles saying the team will be sold after Ralph's death to the highest bidder, but NEVER with quotation marks indicating that Ralph actually said the words "to the highest bidder." I think that's significant, because IF Toronto businessmen already own an option to purchase or a right-of-first-refusal the team WOULD be sold AFTER Ralph's death - - just not necessarily as the result of a bidding process. As far as I can tell, all the articles reporting that the team will be sold to the highest bidder are just assuming that there will be a bidding process because that's the most common way for assets to be sold after someone's death. But I don't see why an outstanding option to buy or right-of-first-refusal would be inconsistent with the exact phrasing of any statement RW has made at any time since the 5 year Toronto Series was announced.

 

"Also out of the question, according to Wilson, is the prospect of selling part of the team to a Western New Yorker while he’s still alive in order to perhaps give that person an advantage in eventually taking over the club. “That’s absolutely out,” he said."

 

http://www.nflgridirongab.com/2007/06/17/ralph-wilson-says-he-wont-sell-the-bills/

 

7. "In October 2007, Bills owner Ralph Wilson petitioned NFL owners to allow his team to play one “home” game per year (over five years) in Canada."

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bills_Toronto_Series

 

[Editorial note - - I don't consider Wikipedia very authoritative but I could not immediately find anything else specifying this date in the chronology]

 

8. The 5 year Bills in Toronto Series deal was announced by Ralph Wilson and Ted Rogers on February 2, 2008. The deal runs through and includes the 2012 season. "The deal with the Bills wouldn't preclude Rogers and Tanenbaum from making bids to buy and relocate other NFL franchises if they go up for sale."

 

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/bills/2008-02-06-toronto_N.htm?loc=interstitialskip

 

9. Here's Erie County Executive Collins' press conference after the announcement:

 

youtube.com/watch?v=jB14wCG6KxM

 

10. Here's the Bills' stadium lease with Erie County. It expires on July 31, 2013. So the last regular season games it covers are the ones played in the 2012 NFL season.

 

http://www.erie.gov/billslease/stadium.phtml

 

11. Whoever owns the Bills franchise (either before or after Ralph Wilson's death), can exercise an escape clause by paying a fee to buy out the remaining term of the stadium lease if they choose to do so.

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/buffalo/stories/2003/03/03/story2.html?page=1

 

 

12. On or about December 3, 2008, shortly before the Bills play the first regular season game in the Toronto Series, and shortly after the death of Ted Rogers, ESPN.com reports - -

 

" Rogers Communications was the creation of Ted Rogers, who as a law student built his holdings in an FM radio station into a wireless and cable empire that employs 24,000 and is worth an estimated $18 billion. Rogers Communications already owns the Blue Jays, the Rogers Centre and the Argonauts of the Canadian Football League. The death of Rogers, at 75, on Tuesday -- five days before the first NFL regular-season game was to be played in his building -- might not have a big impact on a potential move by the Bills.

 

Phil Lind, the Rogers vice chairman and a huge Cleveland Browns fan, is said to be the driving force behind the push for the NFL. Rogers has the diversity and the cash flow to spend the $1 billion it would take to buy the franchise. Certainly, the $78 million U.S. price tag to effectively lease those eight games is a powerful sign of interest."

 

13. The same December 3, 2008 ESPN.com report also stated:

 

"Buffalo fans have been nervous since the Bills signed an offseason deal worth $78 million with Rogers Communications that will take the Bills to Toronto for eight games, three of them preseason contests, over a span of five years. There were rumors that the deal included a right-of-first-refusal clause when the team is sold, but that hasn't been confirmed."

 

[Editorial note - - I would love to see somebody ask RW if anybody already has a right-of-first-refusal or option to buy the franchise and get a direct, responsive answer]

 

14. Although there are valid reasons to doubt his credibility, some time between January, 2011 and May 11, 2011 Doug Ford, a Toronto councilman, claimed in an interview, when discussing the seating limitations of the Rogers Center, that "he has spoken with officials at Rogers communication about digging down to add an additional 15,000 seats. The renovations wouldn’t cost taxpayers a dime and furthermore, he added, thousands of jobs would be created.

 

“(The NFL) can’t keep ignoring a market this size,” Ford said.

 

And what about scarce turnout when the Buffalo Bills occasionally play in town?

 

“If we had our own team,” Ford told the Score, “we’d treat it like it’s our own and build up a fan base.”

 

There is a “big difference.”

 

http://www.thestar.com/mobile/NEWS/article/987073

 

[editorial note - this guy might just be a shill but I included his comments here because I had not seen the idea to expand the Rogers Center posted here before - - maybe I just missed it and I don't know how plausible "digging down" is]

 

15. There is some precedent for an NFL owner granting someone an option to buy the franchise at a future date. There may be other examples, but it's undeniable that a former owner of the New England Patriots once did this. See paragraphs 71-74 (under the heading "The Murray Option") of this otherwise long and complex court opinion:

 

http://openjurist.org/34/f3d/1091/sullivan-ii-v-national-football-league

 

Somebody please convince me that there's no possible way that anyone in Toronto already has a right-of-first-refusal or outright option to buy the Buffalo NFL franchise upon Ralph Wilson's death, because I want the Bills to stay in Buffalo.

 

Simple answer. No. Simply wanted to get money out that market, which he obviously did by putting a sub-par product on the field. Good for you Ralph, got your $$$. Wish you'd spend it on FA instead of pocketing and crying poor. Have a nice day

[ICanSleepWhenI'mDead]

My OP has a timeline, but includes activities of Canadians starting mainly in September, 2006. Just found a link with the George Lucas prequel:

 

http://thestar.blogs.com/jabs/2006/09/nfl_in_toronto_.html

 

The link has a timeline with more entries involving Toronto Star archive stories about possible NFL expansion to Toronto between 1986 and 2006 - - - here are most but not all of the entries:

 

"Jan. 1986. NFL commissioner Pete Rozelle says league doesn't intend to expand into Canada and that has nothing to do with the future of the CFL.

 

Feb. 1989. Toronto group (The Sun, Carling-O'Keefe) announces it's been working toward acquiring a franchise since 1986. Paul Godfrey estimates cost of an expansion team at $50-60 million.

 

Aug. 1990. Commissioner Paul Tagliabue on international expansion: "If you include Canada I think it is obviously realistic in this decade."

 

Dec. 1990. Cowboys owner Jerry Jones says Toronto is ready for an expansion franchise, "could easily support any sports franchise."

 

Jan. 1991. Bills owner Ralph Wilson: "A Toronto club wouldn't hurt us. We don't depend on Canada for fans."

 

Feb. 1994. NFL spokesman says league has no minimum seating requirement for stadiums.

 

June 1995. Godfrey pegs cost of expansion franchise at $200 million U.S. Tagliabue says L.A. the priority for a team, but suggests SkyDome smallish football capacity (54,000) is not a problem in Toronto's reckoning. "I think the future involves the quality of a stadium as much as the size."

 

Aug. 1995. Bills, Cowboys play exhibition game at SkyDome in front of 55,799.

 

Late 1995. Jacksonville, Carolina get expansion franchises for $140 million U.S. each. Bills owner Wilson: "A team in Toronto would definitely have an effect on our team. We think this is our market."

 

Aug. 1998. Bills, Packers play exhibition game in SkyDome in front of official crowd of 53,986, but Star reporters note about 10,000 no-shows out of that number.

 

Sept. 1998. Cleveland group pays $530 million for franchise.

 

Oct. 1998. At NFL owners meeting, Toronto doesn't make bid for 32nd league franchise. Godfrey: "The NFL will go international and I think the first international city in the league will be Toronto."

 

Nov. 1998. Tagliabue: "No timetable for expansion" internationally.

 

Summer 1999. Local report has Bills being acquired by Toronto group for $500 million US and moved to Toronto as part of Wilson estate planning.

 

Oct. 1999. Houston added as 32nd NFL franchise, expansion fee $700 million.

 

April 2002. Tagliabue: Toronto not on radar for future expansion.

 

Feb. 2005. Tagliabue, on whether NFL will expand to Toronto in our lifetimes: "It depends on how long you expect to live." And: "I think it could be very likely that the next franchises in the NFL, beyond 32, are outside the U.S. Toronto would certainly be a candidate."

=============================================================================================================

 

I was surprised by the "summer 1999" entry above - - my attempts at searching the Toronto Star archive to find it failed. It's odd that all the other timeline entries are listed by month, but that one is listed differently. Anybody recall seeing such a "local report" (whatever that is)?

[Delete This Account]

jesus.

 

jw

[ICanSleepWhenI'mDead]

THE TIES THAT BIND:

TED ROGERS, LARRY TANENBAUM,

AND THE TORONTO SPORT ELITE (March, 2003)

 

https://physical.utoronto.ca/Libraries/CSPS_PDFs/Working_Paper_2.sflb.ashx

 

"The major purpose of this research project is to conduct an examination of the nature,

structure, and interconnectedness of professional sport franchise ownership in Toronto.

This study: (i) outlines the composition of the board of directors of each professional

franchise in Toronto within six selected team sports; (ii) determines the extent to which

these franchiseseither through ownership connections or more subtle links at the

board levelare integrated into larger corporate and media conglomerates; and (iii)

assesses the implications of such connections on franchise business practices and for

consumers."

 

* * * * * * *

 

"This case study of professional sport team ownership in Canada was first written as a

graduate student research project. The detailed and comprehensive data show striking

overlaps and interconnections between Rogers and Maple Leaf Sports and

Entertainment (MLSE) the two major players in professional sport in Toronto. At the

time of writing (2011), those connections appear set to become even closer with

rumours that Rogers is about to purchase MLSE. Dr. Field provides an insightful

prologue, Eight Years Later: The Toronto Sport Oligopoly in 2011, to update his paper."

Edited July 7, 2011 by ICanSleepWhenI'mDead

[BuffaloBillsMagic1]

It would have been disoclosed all ready. No way.

[thebandit27]

I think it's time for you to change the title of your thread to "Let me convince you that Ralph already granted Toronto an option to buy", since this appears to be an ongoing effort to prove that this is the case.

 

As many have stated: no, he hasn't. You continue to provide abstract references to the Toronto sports market and miscellaneous financial "indicators" without any supporting evidence that there is anything to your theory other than conjecture.

 

We get it: you think Ralph already sold Buffalo out.

 

Now it's time for you to get it: nobody agrees with you.

 

Move on.

Edited July 7, 2011 by thebandit27

[Delete This Account]

THE TIES THAT BIND:

TED ROGERS, LARRY TANENBAUM,

AND THE TORONTO SPORT ELITE (March, 2003)

 

https://physical.utoronto.ca/Libraries/CSPS_PDFs/Working_Paper_2.sflb.ashx

 

"The major purpose of this research project is to conduct an examination of the nature,

structure, and interconnectedness of professional sport franchise ownership in Toronto.

This study: (i) outlines the composition of the board of directors of each professional

franchise in Toronto within six selected team sports; (ii) determines the extent to which

these franchises—either through ownership connections or more subtle links at the

board level—are integrated into larger corporate and media conglomerates; and (iii)

assesses the implications of such connections on franchise business practices and for

consumers."

 

* * * * * * *

 

"This case study of professional sport team ownership in Canada was first written as a

graduate student research project. The detailed and comprehensive data show striking

overlaps and interconnections between Rogers and Maple Leaf Sports and

Entertainment (MLSE) – the two major players in professional sport in Toronto. At the

time of writing (2011), those connections appear set to become even closer with

rumours that Rogers is about to purchase MLSE. Dr. Field provides an insightful

prologue, “Eight Years Later: The Toronto Sport Oligopoly in 2011”, to update his paper."

great, now you can say you got your paper "published." took eight years, but ... hey.

 

jw

[Doc]

I think it's time for you to change the title of your thread to "Let me convince you that Ralph already granted Toronto an option to buy", since this appears to be an ongoing effort to prove that this is the case.

 

As many have stated: no, he hasn't. You continue to provide abstract references to the Toronto sports market and miscellaneous financial "indicators" without any supporting evidence that there is anything to your theory other than conjecture.

 

We get it: you think Ralph already sold Buffalo out.

 

Now it's time for you to get it: nobody agrees with you.

 

Move on.

Yep. It's an interesting theory, but has no basis in fact.

[GaryPinC]

great, now you can say you got your paper "published." took eight years, but ... hey.

 

jw

 

Good call, I am detecting sarcasm but nonetheless amazed at how far you're willing to stretch the definition of "published". Awfully kind of you.

[RTW2012]

Yep. It's an interesting theory, but has no basis in fact.

 

It's not even a theory, and it's far from interesting.