D-Line, if we draft Dareus

[AllDayADay]

So with the recent rumors and projections, Denver really seems to like Von Miller. We are pretty much at their mercy, but we are pretty much guaranteed a really good player. So we get Marcell Dareus, but what would D-line look like in the 2011 season. Do we have too much invested already? How many d-line men would we need to play a real 3-4?

 

Kyle Williams- Will see the field more than any other Bills d-line men, deservedly so. Playmaker, especially when rushing the passer and uses his pentration skills. 3 technique

Torrell Troup- 2nd round pick. Run stuffer, hopefully gets a lot better in his 2nd year. Nose tackle

Alex Carrington- 3rd round pick. Very good potential and can become a complete DE in 34. 5 technique

Dwan Edwards- The biggest free agent from the Nix era. Solid, versatile, but not over powering. 3 or 5 technique

Chris Kelsay- The underwhelming classic face of the Bills defense. Get a lot of PT, but clearly doesnt fit in a 34. DE in 4-3 looks.

Spencer Johnson- Good depth, average player with ST value. 3 or 5 technique.

*Marcell Dareus*- Could play in many positions along the line. Powerful, quick, can shed blocks. ?????

 

So my question is, where does he play and who is not starting? Personally, I would like to see Kelsay go (his contract extension was overrated and can be release without the bills losing too much money). Have Dareus playing a 5 technique in 34 looks and maybe DE in 4-3 looks. I think he is quick enough to play out on the edge. Maybe the Bills D staff will do something creative for a change.

[Zulu Cthulhu]

I would assume troup playing NT much more next year. That's really the only position he can play and was drafted high to specifically play nose. Dareus would play weak side 3 tech and Williams 5 tech.

 

If Troup disappoints and cant get on the field, then Williams reverts to nose, Dareus stays at 3 tech and Edwards goes to strong side i suppose.

 

Kelsay right where he belongs: bench

[buffalohotwings]

I really hope Troupe and Carrington make strides this year. If Troupe proves to be a solid starter/rotational impact player we could vastly improve in the run stopping game and hopefully free up our LBs a little more! Go BillS!

[DrDawkinstein]

I see the DLine looking like:

 

Williams - Troup - Dareus

 

 

Backups/Rotating In:

 

Edwards - Williams - Carrington

 

And no, we definitely do not have too much invested in it. Wouldn't mind spending a later round pick this year on a possible NT backup, and at least a 4th round pick at DE in 2012. Edwards isn't getting younger, people get injured. It would be nice to have 5 or 6 good DLs to rotate through and carry for depth. Luckily, I dont think we're that far away, and really like our DL situation with Dareus added to the mix.

Edited April 28, 2011 by DrDankenstein

[Meathead]

if they drafted dareus it would really be pretty silly for the bills to continue to try to run a 3-4 when they would have too many dlinemen and not enough lbs for that scheme

 

with williams and troupe on the inside and dareus on the outside they would only have to find somebody to take the other de spot, likely to be carrington and some kind of rotation

 

then our lb cupboard doesnt look nearly so bare with poz in the middle and merridude on one of the outsides. then again you just have to find another olb or rotation and youre in decent shape

[DrDawkinstein]

if they drafted dareus it would really be pretty silly for the bills to continue to try to run a 3-4 when they would have too many dlinemen and not enough lbs for that scheme

 

with williams and troupe on the inside and dareus on the outside they would only have to find somebody to take the other de spot, likely to be carrington and some kind of rotation

 

then our lb cupboard doesnt look nearly so bare with poz in the middle and merridude on one of the outsides. then again you just have to find another olb or rotation and youre in decent shape

 

IF we are lucky enough to have Dareus fall to us and take him, and IF we are serious about fixing the Defense, I think we could add a couple LBs soemwhere in rounds 2-4 that could help shore that up pretty quickly. Plus with that improved DL, our LBs would (or SHOULD) have the chance to make more plays. We'll see!

[buffalohotwings]

I agree it would be silly to keep running 3-4 if we draft Dareus. Poz, Merriman, Moats, + 2nd or 3rd rounder sounds better to me. Sounds our defensive front will depend largely on who we draft...miller will prob yield 3-4 and Dareus will yield 4-3. Cant wait for tomorrow!

[808]

edwards-williams-dareus would be our starting 34 front. and a d linemen would probably get cut and we add more LB

[NewEra]

I'd like to see carrington, Williams, Dareus or the same, with possibly Dareus filling the nt. Can he hold up vs 2 blockers and keep his ground? He seems to be very stout and has a great anchor. Williams, while having s great season, seems to be more of a penetrator. Would Williams be better at a DE? I have no idea truthfully, but adding Dareus would open up our DL to many possibilities. All I know is our run defense is one of the worst I've ever seen, and while he wa spectacular at time, maybe part of it was due to having Williams at the nt. Maybe not. Whatever we do, having Dareus would really help (duh). One of the telling factors will be, who has the better showing during training camp, carrington or troupe. I'd like to see one of them line up next to Williams and Dareus (if we draft him) in the starting line up. Having one of them, Edwards and Johnson (if he's back), would be a decent bunch to fill in.

[reddogblitz]

I see the DLine looking like:

 

Williams - Troup - Dareus

So we take our Pro Bowl NT and move him to DE?

 

Really?

 

I see it more like

 

Edwards - Williams - Troup - Dareus

 

However I prefer:

 

Kelsay - Williams - Fairley - Edwards

[NewEra]

So we take our Pro Bowl NT and move him to DE?

 

Really?

 

I see it more like

 

Edwards - Williams - Troup - Dareus

 

However I prefer:

 

Kelsay - Williams - Fairley - Edwards

I don't see a problem with moving him. He played great, but he's a penetrator, not an anchor. An anchor is needed as a 3-4 NT IMO.

[MyHorseAteTheKid]

I see the DLine looking like:

 

Williams - Troup - Dareus

 

 

Backups/Rotating In:

 

Edwards - Williams - Carrington

 

And no, we definitely do not have too much invested in it. Wouldn't mind spending a later round pick this year on a possible NT backup, and at least a 4th round pick at DE in 2012. Edwards isn't getting younger, people get injured. It would be nice to have 5 or 6 good DLs to rotate through and carry for depth. Luckily, I dont think we're that far away, and really like our DL situation with Dareus added to the mix.

[/quote

 

 

I hope you are correct.. And if there is a Football God, please let us draft Dareus and not Cam Newton!!!

 

I don't see a problem with moving him. He played great, but he's a penetrator, not an anchor. An anchor is needed as a 3-4 NT IMO.

 

 

 

Totally agree.. Williams is a really good Defensive Tackle but in a 3-4, Ted Washington he isn't!!

 

I've heard it said many times.. The hardest position to find is a quality Big Men! Newton has too many questions about his game to make me comfortable drafting him.. The Bills have too many holes on Defense to ignore a high quality big body like Dareus... If he is already gone than I would take Fairley for sure.. 2nd round, I want the best LB on the board... 3rd round I'm looking offensive tackle...

[benbillsfan]

IF we are lucky enough to have Dareus fall to us and take him, and IF we are serious about fixing the Defense, I think we could add a couple LBs soemwhere in rounds 2-4 that could help shore that up pretty quickly. Plus with that improved DL, our LBs would (or SHOULD) have the chance to make more plays. We'll see!

 

 

thats excatly it if our d line was more in control then our linebackers would be able to make more plays...if our d line are getting blown up and the the o line goes into the 2nd phase of blocking then you have 200 plus of rushing offense yards against us..our d line needs to improve thus making dareus a really great pick....

[djcalvin79]

please.. no Fairley, and no Newton.

[DrDawkinstein]

So we take our Pro Bowl NT and move him to DE?

 

Really?

 

I see it more like

 

Edwards - Williams - Troup - Dareus

 

However I prefer:

 

Kelsay - Williams - Fairley - Edwards

 

So we take our amazing '09 DT and change schemes and move him to NT where he is "too small" to play, and how did that work out?... Oh yeah, Pro Bowl!

 

And believe it or not, we ARE moving AWAY from the 4-3 and drafting for the 3-4 and planning on moving to a full time base of 3-4.

 

Yes, Williams can play the inside DE position in a 3-4. The kid is a machine and an animal. Line him up and tell him to go. Add other players of the same ilk around him, and all of a sudden we have a defense.

 

Do you realize that in your "I Prefer" situation, Chris Kelsay is on the field? How can anyone prefer that?

[Max997]

If the Bills stay with the 3-4 I think Troupe will be the starting NT with Williams and Dareus at DE and both moving inside on obvious passing downs

Edited April 28, 2011 by Max997

[PDaDdy]

Great question about the D-line. Before the possibility of getting Dareus became even remotely possible I envisioned the line looking like this:

 

If we are talking 3-4 supposedly he can play anywhere on the line. In 3-4 fronts he replaces Marcus Stroud or if Williams moves to DE and Troup starts at NT then he would likely displace Spencer/3rd round pick Carrington at DE who was inactive and couldn't get on the field for most of last year.

 

In 4-3 fronts. There is much less of an issue. You let him play 4-3 DE with Williams and Troup at the DT positions. By all accounts he can play any position on the defensive line.

[Ghost of Rob Johnson]

30 front:

Edwards-Williams-Dareus

Carrington-Troup-S Johnson

 

 

40 front:

 

Edwards-Williams-Dareus-Kelsay

[DreReed83]

Williams and Dareus at the end and Troup anchors the middle.

[Thoner7]

I think you will see Dareus as a BJ Raji type for us. He will prob play 5 tech and a little nose at times this year, before being a half nose guard half 5 tech and could eventually be the starting Nose. I just don’t see KW holding down the nose for the rest of his career, and Troup is expected to start at some point I would expect. Even if he does start, we will need more than 1 NG. KW and Dareus can be in the rotation at both positions, primarily on passing downs.

 

Troupe = NG on non-passing downs.

Dareus or KW = NG on 3rd and longs

Dareus and KW, with some Carrington and Ewards mixed in. = 5 techs on non-passing downs

Carrington and KW or Dareus = 5 techs on 3rd and longs

 

We obviouisly cannot have all 4 on the field at once in a 3-4, but I think thats a very good rotation of players. In other news, Imagine trying to run on KW(LE) Dareus(3 tech) Troup(NG) Carrington(RE). not a bad 4 man front for short yardage.

[Fingon]

4-3:

 

Merriman- Williams - Dareus - Moats/Carrington

 

3-4:

 

Dareus- Williams - Carrington

[RealityCheck]

So with the recent rumors and projections, Denver really seems to like Von Miller. We are pretty much at their mercy, but we are pretty much guaranteed a really good player. So we get Marcell Dareus, but what would D-line look like in the 2011 season. Do we have too much invested already? How many d-line men would we need to play a real 3-4?

 

Kyle Williams- Will see the field more than any other Bills d-line men, deservedly so. Playmaker, especially when rushing the passer and uses his pentration skills. 3 technique

Torrell Troup- 2nd round pick. Run stuffer, hopefully gets a lot better in his 2nd year. Nose tackle

Alex Carrington- 3rd round pick. Very good potential and can become a complete DE in 34. 5 technique

Dwan Edwards- The biggest free agent from the Nix era. Solid, versatile, but not over powering. 3 or 5 technique

Chris Kelsay- The underwhelming classic face of the Bills defense. Get a lot of PT, but clearly doesnt fit in a 34. DE in 4-3 looks.

Spencer Johnson- Good depth, average player with ST value. 3 or 5 technique.

*Marcell Dareus*- Could play in many positions along the line. Powerful, quick, can shed blocks. ?????

 

So my question is, where does he play and who is not starting? Personally, I would like to see Kelsay go (his contract extension was overrated and can be release without the bills losing too much money). Have Dareus playing a 5 technique in 34 looks and maybe DE in 4-3 looks. I think he is quick enough to play out on the edge. Maybe the Bills D staff will do something creative for a change.

Talking about the draft is one thing right now. But I don't think my brain can handle projecting who will step up in training camp AND not get injured before September. All I think I know is that we don't have enough invested at any position. Anybody seen a baby?

[bills1960]

Troup and Williams will probably share a more even amount of playing time this year, depending on how Troup improves. But I'm more worried about the DE position. Who knows how Carrington will progress, Kelsay is a 3-4 OLB, Johnson is a career backup at best and Dawn Edwards is the closest thing we have to a starter. Draft Dareus and our problems will be solved.

Edited April 28, 2011 by bills1960

[808]

Kelsay is a 3-4 OLB,

 

 

???? no he really isnt.hes a slow average 43 end. did you see how lost he was when trying to play OLB? he looked like a racoon witha peanut butter jar stuck on his head

[Cash]

I think you will see Dareus as a BJ Raji type for us. He will prob play 5 tech and a little nose at times this year, before being a half nose guard half 5 tech and could eventually be the starting Nose. I just don’t see KW holding down the nose for the rest of his career, and Troup is expected to start at some point I would expect. Even if he does start, we will need more than 1 NG. KW and Dareus can be in the rotation at both positions, primarily on passing downs.

 

Troupe = NG on non-passing downs.

Dareus or KW = NG on 3rd and longs

Dareus and KW, with some Carrington and Ewards mixed in. = 5 techs on non-passing downs

Carrington and KW or Dareus = 5 techs on 3rd and longs

 

We obviouisly cannot have all 4 on the field at once in a 3-4, but I think thats a very good rotation of players. In other news, Imagine trying to run on KW(LE) Dareus(3 tech) Troup(NG) Carrington(RE). not a bad 4 man front for short yardage.

 

I tend to agree. Ngata is another massive and nimble guy who alternates between the nose and 5-tech (in both cases, Ryan Pickett & Kelly Gregg are big factors in pushing Raji/Ngata to end). I see Dareus as that type of player, but spending more time at DE. If we draft him, I think he starts at LDE from day 1 in the 3-4, and at DT in a 4-3 look.

 

To the OP's point, Kelsay shouldn't factor into this discussion much. If last year was any indication, Kelsay will only play DE in nickel or dime situations - never in a base 3-4 or 4-3. And I'm sure Carrington would be given an opportunity to win the job over Dareus or Edwards, but I imagine the coaching staff would be pretty surprised if Carrington did win it. He's a 3rd-rounder (not exactly guaranteed starter in year 2) who got like 100 total snaps last year. That's not a guy who can just be penciled in to play 40 snaps a game. I would expect Carrington to be part of the D-line rotation, but strictly as a backup. Same thing with Spencer Johnson. I would think Troup would also come off the bench, but with a bit of a bigger role, since he'd be part of probably any goal line package.