From the "Guys We Let Walk" Category...

[OvrOfficiousJerk]

...Jim Leonhard's injury just got a chunk of airtime on MNF Countdown (both in the booth and in the studio), and all the adjustments the Jets would have to make as a result of losing such a key player.

 

Seeing as how we had to spend a high draft pick on another FS the year or so after Leonhard left, I'm wondering if anyone remembers the circumstances of him leaving. Despite being an undrafted-FA, he certainly proved a better player than Ko "I'm worth millions" Simpson, so why didn't we keep him? A bit undersized, he definitely packs a punch, is a reliable kick returner and doesn't make too many costly mistakes.

 

Instead of picking up Jairus Byrd (I was all-in on the Byrd bandwagon last year, but let's face it he hasn't come back from his groin injury this year), that 2009 second round pick could've been an LB or OT, two positions that were sorely needed.

 

Was Leonhard a guy worth keeping in 2008, and should be filed in with current Vikings Winfield and Williams as players we should have re-upped? Or is it just that he became Rex Ryan's pet project at Baltimore/New York, and was coached from a marginal player to become a solid FS?

Edited December 7, 2010 by OvrOfficiousJerk

[Hammered a Lot]

And this week, Cleveland Brown's TE Robert Royal.

[Thoner7]

The bills alwasy cut good players. He was cut cause the Bills FO personell cannot evaluate the players on their roster or in FA or in college.

 

Same old story over and over

[billsfan89]

The bills alwasy cut good players. He was cut cause the Bills FO personell cannot evaluate the players on their roster or in FA or in college.

 

Same old story over and over

 

Football Prospectus called Jim Leonard one of the worst starters in the NFL during the 2007 season. That's why we let him go I think you can point to a guy like big Pat and say that's a guy we let go for no real reason but not for Leonard he didn't thrive here.

 

Was the reason he didn't thrive because of DJ's scheme? Maybe but lets remember that he was signed to the Ravens as a pure back up he only broke out due to getting to start due to injury. It wasn't as if the Ravens signed him and plugged him in right away.

 

After he had a great year with the Ravens he signed with the Jets and has played well. But there is honestly not a real way the Bills could have know what he was.

[OvrOfficiousJerk]

Football Prospectus called Jim Leonard one of the worst starters in the NFL during the 2007 season. That's why we let him go I think you can point to a guy like big Pat and say that's a guy we let go for no real reason but not for Leonard he didn't thrive here.

 

Was the reason he didn't thrive because of DJ's scheme? Maybe but lets remember that he was signed to the Ravens as a pure back up he only broke out due to getting to start due to injury. It wasn't as if the Ravens signed him and plugged him in right away.

 

After he had a great year with the Ravens he signed with the Jets and has played well. But there is honestly not a real way the Bills could have know what he was.

 

Thanks for the perspective. I remember how we were devastated by injuries on the defensive side of the ball that year (lost Webster and Simpson the first game, Poz by the end of the month, and at least 8-12 reached IR by the end), so having an underperformer starting was certainly par for the course and his mediocrity probably got lost in the shuffle. Then again the IR issues gave us a chance to uncover Jabari Greer, but plenty of those guys had no business doing anything more than ST duty.

 

I feel a little bit better hearing that we didn't pass up on the next big thing with Leonhard, Ryan must've put some real effort in to turn him into what he became.

[Stealth]

The only reason Leonhard even got a chance to become adequate in Baltimore was because of an injury to Dawan Landry. He than became the about the 8th-9th best player on the Ravens defense. Followed Ryan to the Jets where he became the 8th-9th best player on the Jets defense. He's hardly a guy that a defense is built around. He doesn't get picks, he doesn't defend many passes. He's become a better tackler over the years, but when it comes down to it is a liability in coverage.

[DanInUticaTampa]

And this week, Cleveland Brown's TE Robert Royal.

 

haha

[Mark Long Beach]

The only reason Leonhard even got a chance to become adequate in Baltimore was because of an injury to Dawan Landry. He than became the about the 8th-9th best player on the Ravens defense. Followed Ryan to the Jets where he became the 8th-9th best player on the Jets defense. He's hardly a guy that a defense is built around. He doesn't get picks, he doesn't defend many passes. He's become a better tackler over the years, but when it comes down to it is a liability in coverage.

 

 

A little harsh, but not that far off.

 

Leonard was a guy who was easy to root for, but he's undersized and relatively speaking undertalented. However, he's worked hard and has improved significantly. Very much unlike Ko Simpson, who started out better, but never really took a step forward.

 

That's why guys like Leonard stick around for a while. They work hard and overachieve. They are known as journeymen and can fill a role for a year or three.

[DanInUticaTampa]

Winfield and williams are the only two players we rid of that I wish we still had. I don't miss the jonathon scotts, robert royals, nate clements, trent edwards, jp losmans, and even the sam aikens at all. And at this point, I would take freddie/spiller over mcgahee/lynch.

 

And I'll admit, there are days I miss peters... but I love wood, and bell is getting better. So screw him for all the headachs and holdout. That is just stupid of him.

 

As for lenard... I remember the fans liking him and him being a stud on special teams, but he just couldn't get it together on defense. And it is a wierd thing, because as bad as our coaching was, the one thing we seemed to coach well was the DBs.... so a bit of a mystery how we missed on that one.

 

Yeah, it sucks so bad that fat pat isn't still a bill.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Of the former Bills not talked about as much, here are the guys I miss who are still in the league.

 

Takeo Spikes has resurrected his career, albeit on a bad Niners team. But he's playing at a high level again and he was one of my favorite Bills. I understand why he had to go though.

 

Justin Bannan has had a nice post-Bills career. He would have been perfect in the Jauron defense as a quick, one-gap lineman who plays with good leverage and intensity.

 

Letting Jabari Greer go was a big mistake…especially in the context of signing Terrence McGee to his second extension with the team last July after an injury-shortened 2009 season.

 

I'm still a big London Fletcher fan too. He never had a good defensive line in front of him during his whole career. He's as good a player as Zach Thomas, Sam Mills, or Jessie Tuggle ever were. And one of the finest people you'll ever meet.

 

Also, Mario Haggan has proven to be much more than the special teams and short yardage linebacker that the Bills used him as. He's a very solid starting linebacker who would be starting for the Bills if he were still here.

[OvrOfficiousJerk]

Of the former Bills not talked about as much, here are the guys I miss who are still in the league.

 

 

I feel I can extend your post:

 

There's a couple categories to the guys we let go -

1) Deserved to walk - Clements

2) Talent you could never have predicted - Banaan, Haggan, and it seems Leonhard

3) Should still be in a Bills uniform (okay, maybe not now, but at least for a couple more years) - [Not necessarily the stereotypical names of Williams and Winfield] Spikes, Fletcher, and heck I'll throw in Lawyer Milloy. Though seemingly at the end of their rope, these veterans formed the nucleus of one of the best defenses in the league in 2003-2004, and were let go soon thereafter despite still having many years left in them. While they probably couldn't be a long term solution, these were class-act veterans who could've coached up guys like Poz/Crowell/[insert marginal LB here] or Whitner/Scott/Simpson. If there's any reason why you see Whitner miss tackles, or why we don't have any LBs wrapping up RBs at the line of scrimmage, losing those three players would be it.

 

Do we have a decent defense from 2006 on if they were extended by two/three years?

[Bob in STL]

Football Prospectus called Jim Leonard one of the worst starters in the NFL during the 2007 season. That's why we let him go I think you can point to a guy like big Pat and say that's a guy we let go for no real reason but not for Leonard he didn't thrive here.

 

Was the reason he didn't thrive because of DJ's scheme? Maybe but lets remember that he was signed to the Ravens as a pure back up he only broke out due to getting to start due to injury. It wasn't as if the Ravens signed him and plugged him in right away.

 

After he had a great year with the Ravens he signed with the Jets and has played well. But there is honestly not a real way the Bills could have know what he was.

 

 

So all I have to do is read that magazine and I can become a GM. Wow!!!

 

Leonard was a good player with Buffalo but faced stiff competition to make the team. He is better with the Ravens/Jets because he is in a system that fits him, is surrondeed by players, and Buddy Ryan coached him up. He fits Ryan's system perfectly.

 

Leonard would have trouble getting reps with the Bills.

[Mr. WEO]

The only reason Leonhard even got a chance to become adequate in Baltimore was because of an injury to Dawan Landry. He than became the about the 8th-9th best player on the Ravens defense. Followed Ryan to the Jets where he became the 8th-9th best player on the Jets defense. He's hardly a guy that a defense is built around. He doesn't get picks, he doesn't defend many passes. He's become a better tackler over the years, but when it comes down to it is a liability in coverage.

Really? Many reports suggest the opposite.

 

Let's see what the guy's own coach syas about him...(from NFL.com)

 

The New York Jets will be without their defensive quarterback for the rest of the season.

 

"I just think we were all crushed," Jets defensive coordinator Mike Pettine said. "He's such a tough guy, and normally he bounces back, bounces right up from stuff."

 

 

"That was a huge blow to us," said Jets coach Rex Ryan, who also coached Leonhard as the Baltimore Ravens' defensive coordinator in 2008. "He's a huge part of what we do."

 

Eric Smith will replace Leonhard as the Jets' starting safety opposite Brodney Pool. Smith will call the signals as Leonhard normally does.

 

"We feel sorry for Jim, we feel terrible for Jim," Ryan said. "But we don't feel sorry for ourselves. We know it's a big loss, but we'll be ready to move on Monday without him."

 

Leonhard, a six-year veteran, is third on the team with 66 tackles, and he has an interception and a fumble recovery this season, his second with New York.

 

"He's the commander in chief back there, gets everybody lined up and communicates all kinds of different things," Ihedigbo said. "He's looked at as the quarterback of the defense."

See, it's not just about ints (Byrd had plenty last year, useless this year). The guy was an intelligent LEADER of the defensive backfield. Who is our leader? We have 2 retards in Donte and Leodis. Can anybody name ANY defensive player who would elicit this type of response from our coaching staff if they sustained a season ending injury? The answer is no.

 

It's fashionable to belittle Leonard, though he didn't get much of a chance here. But last nigh his repacement got destroyed and without him in there to "QB" their D, the pats tore this defense to pieces.

Edited December 7, 2010 by Mr. WEO

[2003Contenders]

Letting Big Pat, who wanted to stay and was affordable, walk was possibly the biggest blunder of the Donahoe regime. As fine of a player as Winfield is, though, there really wasn't much the Bills could do. He wanted to become a free agent and sell his resources to the highest bidder, so he was unwilling to sign an extension with the Bills prior to free agency. Remember, he initially agreed to terms with the Jets -- and then reneged to sign what seemed like a ridiculous contract with the Vikings.