I am off the Fitzpatrick bandwagon

[Bill from NYC]

Fitz is a midrange starter; never going to be a top 10 guy, I think, and when everyone's healthy, he's probably going to be in the 15-20 range among league QBs. That's not terrible - those QBs regularly get to the playoffs, probably one or two most years. They rarely win the Super Bowl, and never do without incredible supporting casts.

 

I agree with the above. If Fitz was still a backup, he would probably be the best backup in the league. As a starter, I would place him somewhere around 20. For example, I am really not sure if Sanchez is better than Fitz.

 

He does deserve credit for putting up points with a lousy OL and virtually no defense. Starting Fitz in 2011 wouldn't be the end of the world I suppose, but I would mind seeing Ryan Mallett on the sidelines getting ready.

[The Big Cat]

I agree with the above. If Fitz was still a backup, he would probably be the best backup in the league. As a starter, I would place him somewhere around 20. For example, I am really not sure if Sanchez is better than Fitz.

 

He does deserve credit for putting up points with a lousy OL and virtually no defense. Starting Fitz in 2011 wouldn't be the end of the world I suppose, but I would mind seeing Ryan Mallett on the sidelines getting ready.

 

This number 20 seems to be pretty arbitrary...exactly which 19 QB's would be doing better in the situation we have right now in Buffalo??

[ieatcrayonz]

I agree with the above. If Fitz was still a backup, he would probably be the best backup in the league. As a starter, I would place him somewhere around 20. For example, I am really not sure if Sanchez is better than Fitz.

 

He does deserve credit for putting up points with a lousy OL and virtually no defense. Starting Fitz in 2011 wouldn't be the end of the world I suppose, but I would mind seeing Ryan Mallett on the sidelines getting ready.

I assume you think we'd get Mallett in the 2nd? Which means the draft sequence would be CB/QB/OL/LB/OL. I would take Luck and go QB/CB/OL/LB/OL. Then again, Luck is from Stanford.......

[Coach Tuesday]

If Steve Johnson catches that pass over the middle in the fourth quarter (it was a perfect throw and hit him in the hands), we're looking at a blowout.

 

Fitz is 29. Rather than trying to "divine" whether he is objectively a backup or a starter, or whether he is objectively accurate or inaccurate, consider that he may be IMPROVING under Gailey's tutelage. Would you rather have any of these guys over Fitz:

 

Chad Henne

"Dirty" Sanchez

Vince Young

Carson Palmer

Colt McCoy

Travaris Jackson

Alex/Troy Smith

Kyle Orton

Matt Cassel

Matt Hasselbeck

Derek Anderson

David Garrard

Jimmy Claussen

Donavan McNabb

Jason Campbell

 

Because that's what 15 other teams likely will be trotting out next year. Fitz is in the top half of the league right now, and again, I stress, he may be IMPROVING.

[Chandemonium]

I understand the attitude a player needs, but considering that Fitz has been with 3 teams in 6 years, do you really think that he thinks he's more than a backup? He was signed last off-season to be just that and he came into 2010 as the backup to Trent.

 

My guess is that he *wants* to be a starter and feels that he *can* start, but knows there are more talented QBs in the league that have better skills than he does. If so, this clearly doesn't deter him from putting out 130% effort every week.

The past doesn't matter. Of course if you asked him "In your NFL career to date, have you been a starter or a backup more often?" the answer would be backup, as Fitz is not delusional and smart enough to do the simple math. But the bottom line is he's starting this year and playing well, and that wouldn't happen if he wasn't confident in his ability to be more than a backup. He might be aware that he's not the best QB in the league, but I doubt he sits at home and thinks about it. He's probably too busy trying to become the best QB in the league for that. JMO.

[The Big Cat]

If Steve Johnson catches that pass over the middle in the fourth quarter (it was a perfect throw and hit him in the hands), we're looking at a blowout.

 

Fitz is 29. Rather than trying to "divine" whether he is objectively a backup or a starter, or whether he is objectively accurate or inaccurate, consider that he may be IMPROVING under Gailey's tutelage. Would you rather have any of these guys over Fitz:

 

Chad Henne

"Dirty" Sanchez

Vince Young

Carson Palmer

Colt McCoy

Travaris Jackson

Alex/Troy Smith

Kyle Orton

Matt Cassel

Matt Hasselbeck

Derek Anderson

David Garrard

Jimmy Claussen

Donavan McNabb

Jason Campbell

 

Because that's what 15 other teams likely will be trotting out next year. Fitz is in the top half of the league right now, and again, I stress, he may be IMPROVING.

 

He's 27, will be 28 at the end of the month.

[IDBillzFan]

The team is 1-8, and someone is off the Fitzpatrick bandwagon? Man, that's rich. :lol:

 

To me, that means he may be just pressing a little too hard at times...and maybe he is throwing passes a little out of his comfort level. He is overcompensating at times.

Like a little swing pass. I can't keep track of how many times he throws that pass hard at the receivers' feet.

 

And for what it's worth, if you're like me, you can tolerate losing as long as you see people being competitive. He may be inaccurate, and he may throw some clunkers, but if you remove Fitzpatrick from this year's team, they would be completely unwatchable, and I've watched some pretty unwatchable Bills footabll. Whether he's trying to thread the needle or he's laying out blocks because Spiller had a change of direction, the dude at least SHOWS that he's trying to win. I would also add that this thread would not even exist if Stevie Johnson didn't drop that pass while running down the seam.

 

Off the Fitzpatrick bandwagon. Jesus.

[BreezeMafia]

i really have a hard time understanding whether or not some folks on this board know football.

[The Big Cat]

The team is 1-8, and someone is off the Fitzpatrick bandwagon? Man, that's rich. :lol:

 

 

Like a little swing pass. I can't keep track of how many times he throws that pass hard at the receivers' feet.

 

And for what it's worth, if you're like me, you can tolerate losing as long as you see people being competitive. He may be inaccurate, and he may throw some clunkers, but if you remove Fitzpatrick from this year's team, they would be completely unwatchable, and I've watched some pretty unwatchable Bills footabll. Whether he's trying to thread the needle or he's laying out blocks because Spiller had a change of direction, the dude at least SHOWS that he's trying to win. I would also add that this thread would not even exist if Stevie Johnson didn't drop that pass while running down the seam.

 

Off the Fitzpatrick bandwagon. Jesus.

 

Hey! Good to see we agree on something, friend!

[Coach Tuesday]

He's 27, will be 28 at the end of the month.

 

Thanks for the correction. I assume you agree with me.

[The Big Cat]

Thanks for the correction. I assume you agree with me.

 

Haha, I do believe the correction makes your point stronger!

[xsoldier54]

I just want to point something out here:

 

Last night I got into a QB discussion here about Sam Bradford, and how he is already a franchise-quality QB. Yet in almost every statistical category Fitz is outperforming him. So my contention is how we feel about a QB is directly related to how high he was drafted. If we drafted Andrew Luck and he was having an identical year to Fitzy we'd be deliriously happy. But since it's 7th round journeyman Ryan Fitzpatrick with the same stats we can't wait to replace him. It's no different than buying an expensive bottle of wine. It has to be better than the cheap crap because it was expensive, even if it isn't.

 

PTR

I could care less where Fitzpatrick was drafted. My opinion of him is based solely on what I have seen him do in games. I think that he is very gritty and full of heart. Statistics don't mean squat to me. It is obvious that he cannot consistently throw the ball accurately and he tends to make bad mistakes at critical times. That is what I am looking at. I like him as a leader of men, I just don't think he has the physical skills to execute what he wants to do. That, in the end, is what is his undoing. He will never be good enough to lead a team to the playoffs, which is what I am looking for.

[Rob's House]

I'm getting to the point where the term "franchise QB" triggers my gag reflex.

 

I'm not big on labeling a guy or trying to find a box to put him in. I don't know if Fitz is a "franchise QB" b/c I don't really even know what that means. Whether or not Fitz is the future, I can't say at this point, but what I do know is Fitz has been playing well as a starter in the NFL playing top competition with a mediocre offense around him.

 

I don't know if that makes him a "franchise QB" or a "starter" or a "back-up" according to the arbiters of these labels, but I'm ok with him.

 

 

 

And I'll drink to your post Coach Tuesday.

Edited November 15, 2010 by Rob's House

[Buftex]

The team is 1-8, and someone is off the Fitzpatrick bandwagon? Man, that's rich. :lol:

 

 

Like a little swing pass. I can't keep track of how many times he throws that pass hard at the receivers' feet.

 

And for what it's worth, if you're like me, you can tolerate losing as long as you see people being competitive. He may be inaccurate, and he may throw some clunkers, but if you remove Fitzpatrick from this year's team, they would be completely unwatchable, and I've watched some pretty unwatchable Bills footabll. Whether he's trying to thread the needle or he's laying out blocks because Spiller had a change of direction, the dude at least SHOWS that he's trying to win. I would also add that this thread would not even exist if Stevie Johnson didn't drop that pass while running down the seam.

 

Off the Fitzpatrick bandwagon. Jesus.

 

[The Big Cat]

I could care less where Fitzpatrick was drafted. My opinion of him is based solely on what I have seen him do in games. I think that he is very gritty and full of heart. Statistics don't mean squat to me. It is obvious that he cannot consistently throw the ball accurately and he tends to make bad mistakes at critical times. That is what I am looking at. I like him as a leader of men, I just don't think he has the physical skills to execute what he wants to do. That, in the end, is what is his undoing. He will never be good enough to lead a team to the playoffs, which is what I am looking for.

 

So how do you measure the "critical" nature of all the 3rd and longs he's converted on, when accuracy wasn't an issue?

 

How do you measure the upending block he threw for Spiller yesterday 7 yards down field that sprung CJ for an extra 10?

[xsoldier54]

He's 27, will be 28 at the end of the month.

I'd have to answer yes to about half the guys on your list. I like Fitz and he has made this team competitive. I just don't believe he has the physicl tools to ever be a playoff calibre quarterback. Hats off to him for playing his heart out, but once again yesterday, he made some really bad throws, just as he has done the past 6 weeks and just as he will continue to do. Nothing personal against him, I think he really gives it everything he's got. I just don't think he will ever have the physical skills needed to consistently win in the NFL.

[Buftex]

He's 27, will be 28 at the end of the month.

 

 

Yes, I think he is only a year older than Trent Edwards, and a year younger than Losman...his game, under the right coach (Chan Gailey, perhaps?) can still improve. If he was playing like he did last year (kind of like a Kelly Holcomb part 2), I wouldn't think twice about drafting another QB...but he appears to be in an offense he feels comfortable in, with a coach that seems to understand how to get more out of his offensive talent than the previous administration.

[PromoTheRobot]

I could care less where Fitzpatrick was drafted. My opinion of him is based solely on what I have seen him do in games. I think that he is very gritty and full of heart. Statistics don't mean squat to me. It is obvious that he cannot consistently throw the ball accurately and he tends to make bad mistakes at critical times. That is what I am looking at. I like him as a leader of men, I just don't think he has the physical skills to execute what he wants to do. That, in the end, is what is his undoing. He will never be good enough to lead a team to the playoffs, which is what I am looking for.

What we seem to want is a robot QB that throws perfectly every time. I've only seen Tom Brady do that last night. Meanwhile "franchise" Ben Rothlesburger looked pretty bad. I think our expectations of what a good QB should be able to do are fairly unrealistic. Good QB's have bad games. They sometimes make bad throws. You have to look at the full body of work, not just the W-L record.

 

Again, I'm not saying we shouldn't draft a QB like Luck. What I'm saying is 1) don't expect Luck pan out just because we picked him #1, and 2) How good will any QB be unless we fix the rest of the holes on this team?

 

PTR

 

So how do you measure the "critical" nature of all the 3rd and longs he's converted on, when accuracy wasn't an issue?

 

How do you measure the upending block he threw for Spiller yesterday 7 yards down field that sprung CJ for an extra 10?

It's pointless to argue with these numbnuts. They don't even know what a good QB is supposed to look like. All they know is what ESPN and NFLN tell them. If they aren't slobbering over a player, they can't be any good.

 

PTR

[217014170]

Jake Delhomme (when Carolina was competitive) - Offensive Line - Pass Rush - Running Game - Steve Smith = Ryan Fitzpatrick

 

Carolina had premier personnel on both lines...always had at least one premier running back (now they have two with no line...how are they doing? <sarcasm>), although anyone could run behind that O-Line at the time...Steve Smith's athleticism made a lot of near lateral swing passes 50+ yard touchdowns and covered up a lot of bad throws. Note that when Steve Smith was suspended or injured how poorly Delhomme played.

 

Jake Delhomme was viewed as a smart, "solid backup" prior to becoming the starter and benefited from the pieces around him. They built the supporting cast, plugged the quarterback in later, and almost won a Super Bowl. The problem was they hung on to Delhomme a little too long and as both lines aged (right along with Delhomme) or got rich through free agency, Delhomme was exposed for what he is/was - a backup. Carolina's current running backs, Williams and Stewart, once the envy of the league cannot even get 100 yards rushing behind that line when , in the past, they were both getting 100 yards/game each. There are a million examples just like this...Trent Dilfer, Mark Rypien, Tom Brady (first Super Bowl), Bob Griese (HOF, really?), Eli Manning (borderline...pretend his last name is Jones)...where quaterback was just another position on a Super Bowl winning TEAM. Based on the Cowboys' game yesterday I would say Tony Romo is in the same mold...Jon Kitna came in and outplayed Romo with largely the same cast.

 

My point? Even if the Bills had all the same pieces in place when Fitzapatrick took over...studs on both lines, premier skill players...I would say he will be fine (and even encourage him starting over a rookie stud at QB) for the next 2 years BUT you still have to draft the QUARTERBACK if he is available. He does not have to be the #1 overall pick but that position needs to be a priority for this team early in the draft. Who knows, Ryan Mallett could be the next Dan Marino. Someone like Stephen Garcia taken later in the draft (if he comes out) is worth a look...(brothers played at Harvard for you "Fitzy" fans).

 

Look what Peyton Manning keeps doing as the Colts literally erode around him. He is literally forcing guys to win...they KNOW losing is not an option. Sam Bradford may not be racking up the stats but there is NO DOUBT who the leader on the field of that team will be for the next decade at least (may be optimistic about his durability). Heck, look what Mark Sanchez, Colt McCoy, and Troy Smith (tear in my eye) are doing. These guys are true leaders and the rest of the players believe. Coaches can do alot and great coaches can do even more but it's still the players who have to execute. Do you think Ray Lewis would accept a play call from Edwards (Bills DC) if he knew it was not going to work at a critical point in the game? Who calls the Colts offensive plays (rhetorical for dramatic purposes...we all know it's Frank Reich :-))

 

Bottom line...You NEVER pass on the franchise, can't miss quarterback for so many reasons both football and non-football related...marketing, identity, attracting free agents. I don't care if you are currently an established, mature team in all other aspects of the game. In today's NFL that only lasts 2-3 years at most. The quarterback is the most valuable asset in the team's portfolio and having the right one (whether by design or luck) makes GM's and coaches geniuses (Polian, Levy, Belichick, etc.), supporting players Hall of Famers (you think Jerry Rice is JERRY RICE without Montana and Young and the NEW West Coast Offense?), and fans ecstatic (although sometimes I wonder on this board).

[PromoTheRobot]

Bottom line...You NEVER pass on the franchise, can't miss quarterback....

I agree. You'd have to be an idiot not to draft a Tom Brady or Peyton Manning when you have the chance. Now tell me how you know which QB's will be that great? Because Kiper and McShay say so?

 

 

PTR