FightinIrishBills Posted September 21, 2010 Share Posted September 21, 2010 Say what you want but you forgot to address the theme/premise of his point which was "no no...that is not how it works. You determine where the weaknesses are, get rid of the players who can't cut it, and bring in players who can improve your team. As a result you get better, and do not get worse. Frankly, IMHO, he is 100% correct. Way to "cherry pick" what he had to say and take things totally out of context. You've lost your marbles. No, I'm not cherry-picking. I agree with the basic premise that you do need to bring in the people you believe that will help your team be successful. However, the Lombardi example just doesn't cut it. Football was an incredibly different game in 1958, with a much higher level of skill and athletic prowess required in the modern game. It was also a smaller league with only 12 teams, with a shorter season of 12 games. Long story short, I think it's simplistic and wrong-headed to demand that after one season in the modern NFL that it's not only reasonable but expected that the Lombardi example can be easily imitated. Maybe Lombardi was able to immediately bring in the level of talent that put him up to championship level, but in today's game, that takes more time due to a whole host of reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
todd Posted September 21, 2010 Share Posted September 21, 2010 That is the best you can do? Your freakout post speaks for itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChasBB Posted September 22, 2010 Share Posted September 22, 2010 (edited) Pretty f'ing obvious IMO I was wondering if anyone else thought this -- thanks for reenforcing that thought. It does seem pretty obvious based on his postings and gaps of logic. You know, I've pissed some people off on this board over the years and vice-versa -- goes with the territory. However, when people call me out, I usually reconsider my post and offer an apology if appropriate. For example, I made a rude and unnecessary remark to Bills in VA recently and he called me on it and I apologized. Dean once let me have it for ripping into Kelsay in an over-the-top and inappropriate manner and I apologized for the remark. And I've reconsidered several other posts when challenged with better logic or a more-considered opinion. That's what the board is all about -- give and take -- back and forth -- not just a place to state your opinions, but also a place to LISTEN to other's opinions. I really try to stay flexible on this board and be reasonable. So to all on the board, I will continue my efforts to keep my posts in moderate tones and I hope posters continue to continue to call me out if I'm making a bad post -- that's fine with me -- that's what it's all about. If I don't like a post, I do attempt to attack the post and not the poster -- I think this is something on the board many need to work on. However, in regards to mpl6876, I'll make the LONE exception -- piss off you little gnat! Edited September 22, 2010 by ChasBB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConradDobler Posted September 22, 2010 Share Posted September 22, 2010 (edited) I was wondering if anyone else thought this -- thanks for reenforcing that thought. It does seem pretty obvious based on his postings and gaps of logic. You know, I've pissed some people off on this board over the years and vice-versa -- goes with the territory. However, when people call me out, I usually reconsider my post and offer an apology if appropriate. For example, I made a rude and unnecessary remark to Bills in VA recently and he called me on it and I apologized. Dean once let me have it for ripping into Kelsay in an over-the-top and inappropriate manner and I apologized for the remark. And I've reconsidered several other posts when challenged with better logic or a more-considered opinion. That's what the board is all about -- give and take -- back and forth -- not just a place to state your opinions, but also a place to LISTEN to other's opinions. I really try to stay flexible on this board and be reasonable. So to all on the board, I will continue my efforts to keep my posts in moderate tones and I hope posters continue to continue to call me out if I'm making a bad post -- that's fine with me -- that's what it's all about. If I don't like a post, I do attempt to attack the post and not the poster -- I think this is something on the board many need to work on. However, in regards to mpl6876, I'll make the LONE exception -- piss off you little gnat! Chas, I'd like to rent (or purchase) that final line for use as my sig, with proper credit given of course. Edited September 22, 2010 by ConradDobler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted September 22, 2010 Share Posted September 22, 2010 (edited) I think I'll take Chan at his word. He's looking to find the right mix of players. It's going to be a long, brutal process, I suspect, because the previous regime left him bare cupboards and his GM didn't deliver much in the way of new groceries. That's sort of the way it goes when you sign up for a "bad job". Edwards is just a bad QB and he deserves to be benched. Chan now knows what Perry Fewell knew last year and what Dicky the Ivy League Jay never could figure out. Sure, it is disheartening that it took even this long to re-discover America on this point. For a franchise that has wallowed in stupid decisions, it isn't endearing to the downtrodden fanbase for a new head coach to start off right out of the gate backtracking on his own first decisions that have amounted to strike outs. However, Chan's process is understandable. As Gailey put it, and I don't think he is highly deceptive or cagey, he is about trying different combinations and tacks to try and win. On the other hand, it's quite likely (as I think he'll discover in the end) with this group of offensive players that there isn't a magic combination. (He hasn't got an NFL QB, the line is too inexperienced and sucks, and he doesn't have enough weapons to keep an NFL defense honest.) Another approach he could take is to realize that these guys are just not good enough and that this throw-away season should be spent on developing an identity for the future, what a coach wants his team to become eventually, and for setting the bar for the few players worth salvaging. Which goes hand in hand with taking a long view, the team dumping anybody of any trade value that isn't going to be around in 3 or 4 seasons for whatever you can get for them. I'd be shocked if Gailey or the F.O. was going to admit/suggest that this season was a throw-away year after 2 games; but, I won't be surprised if there is a yard sale at some point. Edited September 22, 2010 by Sisyphean Bills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChasBB Posted September 22, 2010 Share Posted September 22, 2010 (edited) Chas, I'd like to rent (or purchase) that final line for use as my sig, with proper credit given of course. I'd be honored -- no credit necessary -- go for it! (btw, Dobler one of my favorite all-time Bills -- great handle!) Edited September 22, 2010 by ChasBB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpl6876 Posted September 22, 2010 Share Posted September 22, 2010 No, I'm not cherry-picking. I agree with the basic premise that you do need to bring in the people you believe that will help your team be successful. However, the Lombardi example just doesn't cut it. Football was an incredibly different game in 1958, with a much higher level of skill and athletic prowess required in the modern game. It was also a smaller league with only 12 teams, with a shorter season of 12 games. Long story short, I think it's simplistic and wrong-headed to demand that after one season in the modern NFL that it's not only reasonable but expected that the Lombardi example can be easily imitated. Maybe Lombardi was able to immediately bring in the level of talent that put him up to championship level, but in today's game, that takes more time due to a whole host of reasons. Not sure I agree with you but I can respect your opinion and the tone of your post. Well done. Wish you would have said that in the previous post. I was wondering if anyone else thought this -- thanks for reenforcing that thought. It does seem pretty obvious based on his postings and gaps of logic. You know, I've pissed some people off on this board over the years and vice-versa -- goes with the territory. However, when people call me out, I usually reconsider my post and offer an apology if appropriate. For example, I made a rude and unnecessary remark to Bills in VA recently and he called me on it and I apologized. Dean once let me have it for ripping into Kelsay in an over-the-top and inappropriate manner and I apologized for the remark. And I've reconsidered several other posts when challenged with better logic or a more-considered opinion. That's what the board is all about -- give and take -- back and forth -- not just a place to state your opinions, but also a place to LISTEN to other's opinions. I really try to stay flexible on this board and be reasonable. So to all on the board, I will continue my efforts to keep my posts in moderate tones and I hope posters continue to continue to call me out if I'm making a bad post -- that's fine with me -- that's what it's all about. If I don't like a post, I do attempt to attack the post and not the poster -- I think this is something on the board many need to work on. However, in regards to mpl6876, I'll make the LONE exception -- piss off you little gnat! That being said maybe you should apologize not to me but the other posters for that horrendous post about Sully playing WR and putting on the pads. Borderline insulting and at least I have the "gnats" to cal you out on it. Guess you really didn't like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConradDobler Posted September 22, 2010 Share Posted September 22, 2010 I'd be honored -- no credit necessary -- go for it! (btw, Dobler one of my favorite all-time Bills -- great handle!) Done! and Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpl6876 Posted September 22, 2010 Share Posted September 22, 2010 (edited) Done! and Thanks. People resort to insulting behavior when they no longer can intellectually defend themselves and or their positions. Guys well done. Edited September 22, 2010 by mpl6876 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChasBB Posted September 22, 2010 Share Posted September 22, 2010 That being said maybe you should apologize not to me but the other posters for that horrendous post about Sully playing WR and putting on the pads. Borderline insulting and at least I have the "gnats" to cal you out on it. Guess you really didn't like that. My only beef was that the mods removed it from its own thread and lumped it in with the daily "Sully is an idiot" thread. I thought is was one of my better posts and that it was thread-worthy, but hey, that's cool -- the mods got to keep the site lean. If George Plimpton could do it -- a man not of great physical stature, then surely you, er, I mean Sully could do it. He seriously could write a book just as Plimpton did. If nothing else, it'd sure sell some newspapers. He might gain a little NEEDED perspective, too, and develop a little more respect for the men who play the game and what they endure. And no, I'm not saying I have that perspective either as I surely do not know what it'd be like to get waylaid by Donte Whitner -- and I have no desire to find out. It'd sure be great entertainment if nothing else. Done! and Thanks. More than welcome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 22, 2010 Share Posted September 22, 2010 Panthers and Titans and Raiders all making QB changes after 2 weeks. Obviously their coaches are all incompetent and in full panic mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in STL Posted September 22, 2010 Share Posted September 22, 2010 The only thing you might be correct about in my opinion is Ingcognito. He wanted a long term deal and would have had to play guard, moving Wood to center. They wanted to keep Schobel. If you keep Owens you are not progressing your many young WR's. Philly wasn't going to trade Vick. Mcnab didn't want to play here. F. Adams doesn't help you in the development of our young lineman. I think Spiller will end up being the better pro between him and Bulaga when it's all said and done. We don't know for sure if Gaither was available or if they were asking to much. Why not change to the 3-4 when you are in re-build mold. Do it now and go through the growing pains and by the way the defense although not great, is not playing awful. Green Bay will scortch any team in the NFL if they are on the field as much as they were against us. So, your argument to say Buddy and Chan are doing an incompetent job is nothing but wrong IMO. Give them time before we make that assessment. I always laugh at people who wonder why we don't go after FA's. How do you know what our front office is doing? I bet were on the phone all the time but the bottom line is players will not come to Buffalo until we turn this thing around through ther draft. That's just common sense... If you keep Owens you progress the WR's that can actually beat him out. Those are the ones you want starting on your team. Handing the job to Stevie Johnson will not improve the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kkspike Posted September 22, 2010 Share Posted September 22, 2010 First off sully has zero athletic ability( u could loft him a football and it would hit him in the nose) he has a hole in one in golf he smashed a 3 wood into a par 3 at 125 yards. ( as I 12 hady who plays 140 rounds a year never got one ) two guys at a bar talking trash sully one of them u would say to your buddies I will take him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConradDobler Posted September 22, 2010 Share Posted September 22, 2010 (edited) People resort to insulting behavior when they no longer can intellectually defend themselves and or their positions. Guys well done. People posting the same haranguing topic over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over all over this board is NOT well done IMO. You are a repetitive and annoying pest; a gnat. I pray to the mods that you'll be banned for crusading soon. Edited September 22, 2010 by ConradDobler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChasBB Posted September 22, 2010 Share Posted September 22, 2010 First off sully has zero athletic ability( u could loft him a football and it would hit him in the nose) he has a hole in one in golf he smashed a 3 wood into a par 3 at 125 yards. ( as I 12 hady who plays 140 rounds a year never got one ) two guys at a bar talking trash sully one of them u would say to your buddies I will take him. Very true. Nevertheless, I'd pay good cash money to watch a jail break rush with Sully in a 5-step dropback. Oh, I'd pay VERY good money for that, indeed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowery4 Posted September 22, 2010 Share Posted September 22, 2010 mpl did get better after a while about it but I agree since this 2nd loss he has been crusading a bit. If you really feel that way though Conrad you should report it. That is the official line from SDS which he put in one of mpls threads a while ago. That is what I did about a poster recently for exactly the same reason and poof now he is gone and the board is a better place. I won't report mpl right now because he has made an effort to improve his dialog in the past and warning him at this point about crusading might be the best policy. Like this Hard Rules. Posts that contain the following material will not be tolerated and will be removed promptly (and depending on the nature of the offense - your ISP may be notified of these violations): Do NOT post: Personal "crusades" (posting the same information/opinion in an excessively repetitive manner. We want posters to share opinions not bludgeon others to death with them.) and mpl his calling you a little gnat would fall under this Courtesy is contagious - Just become someone doesn't share your opinion - doesn't make them an idiot. Which is under Softer Guidelines: Activities that are frowned upon: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConradDobler Posted September 22, 2010 Share Posted September 22, 2010 (edited) mpl did get better after a while about it but I agree since this 2nd loss he has been crusading a bit. If you really feel that way though Conrad you should report it. That is the official line from SDS which he put in one of mpls threads a while ago. That is what I did about a poster recently for exactly the same reason and poof now he is gone and the board is a better place. I won't report mpl right now because he has made an effort to improve his dialog in the past and warning him at this point about crusading might be the best policy. Like this Hard Rules. Posts that contain the following material will not be tolerated and will be removed promptly (and depending on the nature of the offense - your ISP may be notified of these violations): Do NOT post: Personal "crusades" (posting the same information/opinion in an excessively repetitive manner. We want posters to share opinions not bludgeon others to death with them.) and mpl his calling you a little gnat would fall under this Courtesy is contagious - Just become someone doesn't share your opinion - doesn't make them an idiot. Which is under Softer Guidelines: Activities that are frowned upon: Point taken, Bow. Just to clarify though, that it's not MPL's opinion that caused me to call him a gnat, it's his tactics. If you check, I don't post that often, but I'm here multiple times a day. To see nearly every thread with a 4 month/+900 posts member posting the same basic stuff in every one gets to me. Edited September 22, 2010 by ConradDobler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowery4 Posted September 22, 2010 Share Posted September 22, 2010 LOL I understand dude, I understand. I had him blocked for a while Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChasBB Posted September 22, 2010 Share Posted September 22, 2010 (edited) LOL I understand dude, I understand. I had him blocked for a while I'm not going to sit here and say I'm proud of name-calling on the board, but it is what it is. I come to this board in hopes of intelligent dialogue on relevant Bills news and this pest keeps coming around. It's like laying out a blanket for a Sunday picnic to kick back and enjoy some time with your family or friends and suddenly you're swatting at gnats for the next 30 minutes -- it's a total drag and just saps the enjoyment from the experience of posting and surfing the posts. And I don't say this because he routinely attempts to shred my credibility -- that comes with the territory in a public forum. However, the incessant crusading and repetitive nature of his posts just becomes predictable after a short while -- very gnat-like. Edit: And I could even stand a little bit of crusading if it was actually for something, but he crusades against the team at every possible turn. Gailey's an idiot for starting Trent. Gailey's an idiot for benching Trent. Why can't we be like other teams and make deals and win now. We have to lose all our games and get the top pick (so I can shred the front office NEXT year for the guy they use it on). The dude has some issues. Yeah, 10+ years of losing football is no fun, but the incessant railing against the players, the coaches, the staff, the front office, the owner, the groundskeepers for all I know -- it just gets absurd after a while. Edited September 22, 2010 by ChasBB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted September 22, 2010 Share Posted September 22, 2010 I think I'll take Chan at his word. He's looking to find the right mix of players. It's going to be a long, brutal process, I suspect, because the previous regime left him bare cupboards and his GM didn't deliver much in the way of new groceries. That's sort of the way it goes when you sign up for a "bad job". Edwards is just a bad QB and he deserves to be benched. Chan now knows what Perry Fewell knew last year and what Dicky the Ivy League Jay never could figure out. Sure, it is disheartening that it took even this long to re-discover America on this point. For a franchise that has wallowed in stupid decisions, it isn't endearing to the downtrodden fanbase for a new head coach to start off right out of the gate backtracking on his own first decisions that have amounted to strike outs. However, Chan's process is understandable. As Gailey put it, and I don't think he is highly deceptive or cagey, he is about trying different combinations and tacks to try and win. On the other hand, it's quite likely (as I think he'll discover in the end) with this group of offensive players that there isn't a magic combination. (He hasn't got an NFL QB, the line is too inexperienced and sucks, and he doesn't have enough weapons to keep an NFL defense honest.) Another approach he could take is to realize that these guys are just not good enough and that this throw-away season should be spent on developing an identity for the future, what a coach wants his team to become eventually, and for setting the bar for the few players worth salvaging. Which goes hand in hand with taking a long view, the team dumping anybody of any trade value that isn't going to be around in 3 or 4 seasons for whatever you can get for them. I'd be shocked if Gailey or the F.O. was going to admit/suggest that this season was a throw-away year after 2 games; but, I won't be surprised if there is a yard sale at some point. Why is this coach getting a pass already, I don't get it? Look at the Redskins, HC comes in and doesn't like the QB and BOOM gone! New QB with McNabb.- QB FIXED! O line needs upgrading so they draft a LT with first pick and trade with Saints for a pro bowl RT-O line FIXED They need an experienced OC & DC so he hires them and doesn't try and do everything himself- coaching fixed The Redskins were in almost the exact same boat as the Buffalo Bills in every aspect, changing from a 4-3 to a 3-4 all new coaches, new schemes. I have much more faith in the Redskins righting the ship long before the Bills do simply because they have made the proper moves THIS YEAR! Both Nix and Gailey made me very skeptical about the future of this team with their off season moves(or lack of), the GM stating he is going to get some sleep as free agency begins and then brings in Cornell Green for 3 mil....not many seem to be bothered by this. I <3 the Bills and want to see them win asap and not thru some ""long brutal process"", its been 10 years of rebuilding as the entire decade has been wasted by hiring bums that shouldn't have been hired as head coaches. Bad GM no GM old GM Maybe its getting old and I'm getting on others nerves if so... I apologize. I just want to win now and can't wrap my head around why this should take three years or this should be a 'throw away season" Apparently Gailey wants to win now also or he wouldn't have benched Edwards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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