Little doubt our O-Line is the NFL's worst now

[Quester74]

Can anyone think of a single play in the last 2 games, where you thought to yourself, "Damn, that Trent Edwards looked good that play.. he looked like a real QB there."

 

I know *I* haven't.

 

 

How about that last play of the game, too? 4th and Forever, and have ALL DAY to throw.. and you run out of bounds for 4 yds.. Just throw the damned ball up!

[jad1]

Well said. Don't worry though, the haters are unable to see the forest from the trees. As Tom Brady showed against the Ravens in the playoffs last year, even the very best QBs in the NFL are are not very good when they are getting the sh*t kicked out of them.

 

That line gets blown up both on the edge and in the middle. It makes me sick to my stomach to see how much time the opposition offensive line give to their QBs and the holes that they give to their RBs.

 

No doubt. Take Matt Schaub. The Redskins sacked him 5 times today. They kicked the sh#t out of him. Of course, he threw for 500 yards and 3 TDs and led his team to a comeback in the 4th quarter.

 

In reality though, sometimes a QB is just going to have a bad day when his team is outmatched. Everyone is entitled to a bad day.

 

The problem is that Edwards has been having a bad day his entire career. Maybe if, every so often, Edwards was able to rise above the play and his teammates and makes some plays, even in a loss, Buffalo fans would have something to grasp onto when making his case for being the starting QB.

 

Edwards hasn't even shown he can figure out a 34 defense, and he's been in the league 4 years.

 

Enough is enough. Every argument about his ability is a hypothetical one('if he had good coaches,' 'if he had an offensive line,' 'if he had receivers').

 

Bench this loser and move on to the next guy.

Edited September 20, 2010 by jad1

[Paup 1995MVP]

clueless? 3rd & 6 when the game was still 13-7. Trent throws to Stevie who gets CLOBBERED after 4 yards. WIDE THE !@#$ OPEN next to Johnson are Parrish and a RB, maybe Spiller. Trent is garbage. ZERO game awareness. I swear to god he knows who he's throwing to before the play comes in from the sidelines.

Dude, I saw that also. Trent threw to Johnson who was completely covered 3 yards short of the first down. When Roscoe was wide open running DOWN the field to Steve's left. In fact I thought Roscoe could have gone the distance if the ball was thrown in front of him. Trent completely missed it. He is awful. Anyone who thinks he has any business starting in the NFL is not watching the games. I don't think we will win a game with him starting this season. It makes you wonder what Gailey is thinking if Trent is still playing. Unbelievable.

[apuszczalowski]

Get over yourself. You don't have to be a GM or a coach or an announcer to figure this out. The Bills Oline has been bad for the last 10 years. And yet during that time, QBs other than Edwards HAVE been able to get the ball downfield to Evans, or Owens, or Parrish.

 

Losman, a QB who is now out of the league, threw for 300 yards behind a horrible offensive line. Fitzgerald, a QB who should be joing Losman soon, got the ball downfield to the Owens better than Edwards, and he played behind a similarly horrible offensive line.

 

Those guys are NOT good QBs, and yet the COULD make plays downfield playing behind a bad offensive line. It didn't result in many wins, but they were able to catch lightning here and there, unlike Edwards.

 

And finally, when you look at good QBs, like Roethlisberger and Rodgers, who were sacked more than 50 times in a season, you see what a GOOD QB could do behind a bad offensive line.

 

It's idiotic to believe that Edwards needs the entire offensive line to be staffed with good to great players before he can become effective.

 

As the QB, he should bring something to the game. He should be able to raise the level of play around him. Hell, Shaun Hill threw for over 300 yards today against the Eagles for the powerhouse Lions. That's something Edwards has never done, not in college, and not in the NFL.

 

Edwards deserves to be thrown on the trash heap of Bills QBs from the last 10 years. He brings absolutely nothing to the game.

That right there is the key, a good Qb will make up for a bad o-line more then a good o-line making up for a bad QB. The reason why Rodgers and Rothlisberger make their o-lines look better and succeed is because other teams have to respect them. They can't just rush the QB with everyone or stack everyone up at the line to stop the run and force the QB to try and beat them because chances are, Rogers and Ben will beat them with their arms. Trent doesn't strike any fear in opposing teams defences so they will bring everyone up to play the run or rush Trent because he is not a threat to beat them

 

The Bills o-line is a work in progress, theres some potential there, but still needs some work. There weren't too many FA options out there that would have been an imediate improvement, and putting some rookies in there right now forcing them to start isn't going to make them any better either right now. The Bills are still a work in progress and will get better with some time as they adjust to the new coaches and schemes. But you can't expect an instant turn around from them because they tried to change too much this offseason by not only trying to change an offence that was one of the worse, but also completly revamp their defence and change over their special teams in one year

 

The problem with Trent is that he is not a top level QB, and he hasn't shown any signs of having the ability to ever become more then a medicore QB who can play not to lose. No one can say that they have actually felt confident when the Bills have been behind, that Trent can rally the team and make the plays to bring them back

[Peter]

I did not see the Texans game, but I did see that the five sacks were in a game where Schaub had 52 pass attempts. From what I have seen of the Texans, I would take their offensive line over ours every day of the week, and their number one receiver is one of the best in the game, and he is not afraid to go over the middle and fight for the ball. He does that with Schaub. He did that before, and he did that with the Canes.

 

As I said in my earlier post, Tom Brady (the most productive QB in the past several years) showed what happens to even the best QBs in the NFL when an opposing defense is able to do what opposing defenses have been able to do with our offensive line for many, many years.

 

No doubt. Take Matt Schaub. The Redskins sacked him 5 times today. They kicked the sh#t out of him. Of course, he threw for 500 yards and 3 TDs and led his team to a comeback in the 4th quarter.

 

In reality though, sometimes a QB is just going to have a bad day when his team is outmatched. Everyone is entitled to a bad day.

 

The problem is that Edwards has been having a bad day his entire career. Maybe if, every so often, Edwards was able to rise above the play and his teammates and makes some plays, even in a loss, Buffalo fans would have something to grasp onto when making his case for being the starting QB.

 

Edwards hasn't even shown he can figure out a 34 defense, and he's been in the league 4 years.

 

Enough is enough. Every argument about his ability is a hypothetical one('if he had good coaches,' 'if he had an offensive line,' 'if he had receivers').

 

Bench this loser and move on to the next guy.

[CardinalScotts]

The Offensive Line was even more pathetic this week than last week, and to be honest I wasn't sure that was possible. We will have the Edwards Haters Club full of idiots (like Benjamin Button) who will try to blame it all on the QB but that will just be a display of their ignorance. He had no time at all today, then on the few plays when he was given time, the recievers would drop the ball. The first three pass plays were two sacks and a ball that hit Fred Jackson in the hands and he didn't catch it (same as the first pass last week-is there a pattern here?). Even the announcers stated that is doesn't matter who the quarterback is, if they don't block or catch the ball the QB won't be successful. Now don't get me wrong, I am not saying Edwards is the future of this team, maybe his is, maybe he isn't, but it really makes you sick the people on TBD that don't know football and blame everything on the QB. He didn't throw a single interception today (or this year for that matter) that was his fault. Johnson should have caught the one that hit his hands and the other one Parrish should have caught and not handed off to the defender. This team has alot of weaknesses, but none as glaring as this O-Line, which the team ignored during the draft and off season this year-at least as far as bringing in quality and not some other teams garbage. Before the season started most predictors said we were one of the worst two teams in the NFL, along with Tampa Bay. They are now 2-0 and we are 0-2 and not even competitive, so it is really tough to argue that we are the worst team in the NFL.

 

yea your right ole #5 has been brilliant not just today but everytime out there. Next week is it for Edwards...ha 4th and 11 and runs out of bounds. Sums it up- we have no quarterbacks on this roster. The blitz every play because because Eddie can't see it coming amazingly. It's a carbon copy every week until you get an actual NFL qb behind center. There is no risk to blitzing for the opponent what's the worst that can happen a complete pass for no gain ? Edwards has lost the team AGAIN Chan's going to have to make a switch but to who ?

Edited September 20, 2010 by CardinalScotts

[jad1]

I did not see the Texans game, but I did see that the five sacks were in a game where Schaub had 52 pass attempts. From what I have seen of the Texans, I would take their offensive line over ours every day of the week, and their number one receiver is one of the best in the game, and he is not afraid to go over the middle and fight for the ball. He does that with Schaub. He did that before, and he did that with the Canes.

 

As I said in my earlier post, Tom Brady (the most productive QB in the past several years) showed what happens to even the best QBs in the NFL when an opposing defense is able to do what opposing defenses have been able to do with our offensive line for many, many years.

 

You wouldn't have taken the Texans line when they were playing in front of David Carr. And Johnson was nowhere near the best in the game when Carr was his QB. His production looked alot like what Evans does today.

 

Schaub greatly improved that team. Carr, like Edwards is afraid of the pocket. Neither is willing to take a hit to make a play. Both watch the pass rush instead of the receivers.

 

The announcers today noted how Schaub is able to feel the rush, but keep his eyes downfield. That ability, which is shared by most good QBs, would be invaluable to a young and devloping offensive line. Nobody, however, would ever say that Edwards has that ability.

[pimp on da' net]

\

Bell has been the best player on our O line this year. You know #69 and #77 at LT aren't both Bell right?

Thank you. Its relative but everyone on the line have had their lunch taken from them. What has me bewildered is, they seem to be overwelmed at the point of attack on both sides of the ball. Whats up the strenght coaches?

[VA Bills Fan]

Alright everyone count to ten...Trent is our best option to be on the field in the interest of growth and the future -- Brohm couldn't show anything when he had the chance, and Fitz isn't the future and is just as bad as Trent, with bigger guts to make throws down the field I know. So we need to be patient and have faith in Chan to work with him as best he can, and then trade/draft for our next QB next year. We are in rebuilding mode and just played on the road against a Super Bowl contender.

 

That said -- Our OLine maybe the worst but it jumps up 5 or 6 spots if we get rid of Green. Bell is going to be our man for the future and is showing great signs.

[Peter]

Andre Johnson is an absolute stud of a WR who is so much better than Evans. He also made the pro bowl in 2004 (with Carr), 2006 (with Carr) , 2008, and 2009.

 

P.S. I was referring to the Texans current line.

 

 

You wouldn't have taken the Texans line when they were playing in front of David Carr. And Johnson was nowhere near the best in the game when Carr was his QB. His production looked alot like what Evans does today.

 

Schaub greatly improved that team. Carr, like Edwards is afraid of the pocket. Neither is willing to take a hit to make a play. Both watch the pass rush instead of the receivers.

 

The announcers today noted how Schaub is able to feel the rush, but keep his eyes downfield. That ability, which is shared by most good QBs, would be invaluable to a young and devloping offensive line. Nobody, however, would ever say that Edwards has that ability.

[jad1]

Alright everyone count to ten...Trent is our best option to be on the field in the interest of growth and the future -- Brohm couldn't show anything when he had the chance, and Fitz isn't the future and is just as bad as Trent, with bigger guts to make throws down the field I know. So we need to be patient and have faith in Chan to work with him as best he can, and then trade/draft for our next QB next year. We are in rebuilding mode and just played on the road against a Super Bowl contender.

 

That said -- Our OLine maybe the worst but it jumps up 5 or 6 spots if we get rid of Green. Bell is going to be our man for the future and is showing great signs.

 

Trent is our best option? Based on what? Brohm played one game for the Bills last season, and looked no worse than Edwards did in the first two games this season. Fitzpatrick took the job from Edwards last season, why can't he do the same this year?

 

What the hell has Edwards shown the last two season to make anyone believe that Edwards should be on the field in the "interest of growth and the future?"

 

There is no way in hell that Edwards has anything to do with the future of this franchise, unless the goal of the franchise is to be the 32nd rated pass offense in the NFL season after season.

[VA Bills Fan]

Trent is our best option? Based on what? Brohm played one game for the Bills last season, and looked no worse than Edwards did in the first two games this season. Fitzpatrick took the job from Edwards last season, why can't he do the same this year?

 

What the hell has Edwards shown the last two season to make anyone believe that Edwards should be on the field in the "interest of growth and the future?"

 

There is no way in hell that Edwards has anything to do with the future of this franchise, unless the goal of the franchise is to be the 32nd rated pass offense in the NFL season after season.

 

He's 14-18 as a starter, who has shown signs in the past. Fitz is 11-18 as a starter, and older with more balls but a weaker arm and less accuracy. Don't get my post wrong - I hate watching TE, but OF OUR 3 he's the best IMO.

[Benjamin Barker]

The Offensive Line was even more pathetic this week than last week, and to be honest I wasn't sure that was possible. We will have the Edwards Haters Club full of idiots (like Benjamin Button) who will try to blame it all on the QB but that will just be a display of their ignorance. He had no time at all today, then on the few plays when he was given time, the recievers would drop the ball. The first three pass plays were two sacks and a ball that hit Fred Jackson in the hands and he didn't catch it (same as the first pass last week-is there a pattern here?). Even the announcers stated that is doesn't matter who the quarterback is, if they don't block or catch the ball the QB won't be successful. Now don't get me wrong, I am not saying Edwards is the future of this team, maybe his is, maybe he isn't, but it really makes you sick the people on TBD that don't know football and blame everything on the QB. He didn't throw a single interception today (or this year for that matter) that was his fault. Johnson should have caught the one that hit his hands and the other one Parrish should have caught and not handed off to the defender. This team has alot of weaknesses, but none as glaring as this O-Line, which the team ignored during the draft and off season this year-at least as far as bringing in quality and not some other teams garbage. Before the season started most predictors said we were one of the worst two teams in the NFL, along with Tampa Bay. They are now 2-0 and we are 0-2 and not even competitive, so it is really tough to argue that we are the worst team in the NFL.

 

You are as clueless as it gets. Edwards is one of the worst QBs in the league, if not THE worst. He threw two easy pick-6s against Miami that were totally his fault btw.

 

O-line also sucks.

Edited September 20, 2010 by Benjamin Barker

[jad1]

He's 14-18 as a starter, who has shown signs in the past. Fitz is 11-18 as a starter, and older with more balls but a weaker arm and less accuracy. Don't get my post wrong - I hate watching TE, but OF OUR 3 he's the best IMO.

 

I don't believe that Edwards has shown nearly enough this year, or in his career for that matter, to be the unquestioned starter this season.

 

The world doesn't end for this team if they decide to see what Brohm or Fitz can do in Gailey's offense in a game situation. In fact, considering how the season is probably going to turn out, the front office needs to have a clear understanding of how the 3 QBs perform when it counts.

[offyourocker]

I didnt watch it back yet, but Meredith is the one who gave up a sack to mathews, not Bell.

 

And on another Mathews sack Corey McIntre was blocking him one on one.

 

Its not always as simple as blaming the OL, our blitz pick up by RB's/FB's/TE's is down right ugly and thats coaching.

 

I saw at least one sack where nobody even looked at him lol. Our line sucks, Trent has no game awereness. I think our receiver are ok if they had a qb that can pass them the ball

[The Big Cat]

I see a lot of people touching on the "a QB makes his OLine better" point. But I think it's important to explain why that is:

 

Pocket presence has a lot to do with it. Stepping up, moving around, giving yourself some room to throw. Rodgers excels at this, Rothelisberger is incredibly good at scrambling in the pocket, Schaub slides really well, so on and so on. They make plays in spite of the OLine.

 

A quick release also slows down the defensive pursuit. Watch Brady, Manning, any of the iconic guys, or even older players like Hasselbeck-- they get the ball out FAST-- they release before the receiver breaks his route, they time their throws, they let their receivers make plays. They throw while the play is developing and not after it's developed. So the ball comes out faster and the defense doesn't have enough time to truly break down the blocking.

 

Finally, and perhaps most importantly, once you prove that you can beat a blitz, that you'll find those vulnerable areas in the defense, the defense has to be a bit more prudent in its pursuit. Watching P.Manning against the Giants right now is great because New York doesn't **** from Shinola. Manning has them so off balance, they don't know to play zone, man, run, pass, blitz, they have to play read and react. But with Manning throwing the ball, he's reacting faster every time and he's moving the ball with ease.

 

Now:

 

When was the last time you saw Trent move up in the pocket, step all the way to the line of scrimmage and release a fast ball down field? When have we seen him scramble between the hashes and come up making a 30 yard throw down the middle? Release the ball before a receiver called for it? Hit his back foot and FIRE? Hit a receiver in stride over the middle for a long catch and run? Throw a pass that Lee has to run down? Throw a pass that makes his receiver challenge the defender for the ball? Throw a pass to a receiver covered down the sideline? Even throw into double coverage?

 

 

These types of plays are routine for the NFL's competent QB's and over the course of Trent's career, they've happened rarely, if ever.

 

Trent played significantly worse than any other player, than any other unit on his team, this week and last. He sucks. And he sucks so bad that he's put the honus of winning--even staying in games--on everybody else. A quarterback wins game. Trent does not. Time to move on.

[jad1]

Andre Johnson is an absolute stud of a WR who is so much better than Evans. He also made the pro bowl in 2004 (with Carr), 2006 (with Carr) , 2008, and 2009.

 

P.S. I was referring to the Texans current line.

 

The current Texas line has the benefit of playing in front of a real NFL QB, that's the accounts for much of their improvement. Johnson has had two career years with Schaub, and is a much better player with him at QB.

 

Evans would also be a perennial pro bowl receiver if he didn't have a bunch of sub-par QBs throwing to him. It's pretty bad when the play of Edwards makes your best receiver long for JP Losman.

 

Too bad you didn't see the Texans game today. You would have seen how a QB can improve the play of their offensive line. McNabb did the same thing for the Reskins.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

The Offensive Line was even more pathetic this week than last week, and to be honest I wasn't sure that was possible. We will have the Edwards Haters Club full of idiots (like Benjamin Button) who will try to blame it all on the QB but that will just be a display of their ignorance. He had no time at all today, then on the few plays when he was given time, the recievers would drop the ball. The first three pass plays were two sacks and a ball that hit Fred Jackson in the hands and he didn't catch it (same as the first pass last week-is there a pattern here?). Even the announcers stated that is doesn't matter who the quarterback is, if they don't block or catch the ball the QB won't be successful.

 

Me, I sort of find this like trying to argue if spoilt kim-chee is worse than over-ripe limburger cheese.

 

Win as a team, lose as a team. There was plenty of blame to go around. OL, QB, WR, LB, DB**, coaching adjustments or lack thereof.

 

It's the latter which bother me most, actually. We played a solid 2nd quarter. Lulled me into thinking

"hey, this isn't bad, we'll go in and make some adjustments and get back in this thing".

 

Didn't work that way.

 

**any omission of a Bills unit is entirely unintentional and not to be construed as exemption from blame

[billsfan89]

When will people learn that Edwards sucks and the O-line sucks? The Online is missing the two most important components to it (Both the LT and RT) and Edwards is just shot at this point as he can't make things happen at all. Put it Fitz at least we will stop hearing all these Trent sucks threads.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

I see a lot of people touching on the "a QB makes his OLine better" point. But I think it's important to explain why that is:

<good and thoughtful explanation snippaged>

When was the last time you saw Trent move up in the pocket, step all the way to the line of scrimmage and release a fast ball down field? When have we seen him scramble between the hashes and come up making a 30 yard throw down the middle? Release the ball before a receiver called for it? Hit his back foot and FIRE? Hit a receiver in stride over the middle for a long catch and run? Throw a pass that Lee has to run down? Throw a pass that makes his receiver challenge the defender for the ball? Throw a pass to a receiver covered down the sideline? Even throw into double coverage?

These types of plays are routine for the NFL's competent QB's and over the course of Trent's career, they've happened rarely, if ever.

 

Trent played significantly worse than any other player, than any other unit on his team, this week and last. He sucks. And he sucks so bad that he's put the honus of winning--even staying in games--on everybody else. A quarterback wins game. Trent does not. Time to move on.

 

I'm with you up to the last paragraph. Then sorry, I think you're far too generous to the WR, the OL, and the rest of the players and units on the team.

I think there's a chicken-and-egg thing here. I've yet to see a Bills receiver in the last few years reliably pull in the tough throws. I don't see Bills receivers challenge the defender for the ball, or even successfully keep a ball they have their hands on much less do the sort of "instant transition to DB" that saved Kelly many an INT. Trent threw two INTs that should have been completions with the sort of receivers who can make the tough completions you enumerate. I'm not giving the QB props here, mind, just questioning your certainty that the receivers are so much lower in suckitude. And don't get me started on the OT situation.