PDaDdy Posted August 24, 2010 Share Posted August 24, 2010 This is a business! Not an app on iphones. How much does Jerry Johnson or the redskins generate in profits each year. If you can get more you will spend more. I wish you kids would get better educated. How about we look into your finances and tell you how you should spend them to better interest prospective employers to follow your career. My guess is you would not spend what others think you should to make you better. Sounds like trickle down economics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thirdborn Posted August 24, 2010 Share Posted August 24, 2010 Sounds like people are finally realizing that this team is being setup for a sale and not for a playoff run. The argument that you dont invest much money in something that you fully intend to sell is right on. The real discussion should be about what happens after a sale. I still argue that no business people in their right mind (local or not) will invest over $900 million in WNY at an avg of ~$55 a ticket. The team will be sold and will operate in WNY for about 3-5 years afterwards. In that time prices (on everything) will skyrocket, the team will continue to lose, the fan base will diminish, and the team will move. Wow ... you just bummed me out, dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabe Northern Posted August 24, 2010 Author Share Posted August 24, 2010 spend some of what money? the current value of the team is not spendable cash, you idiot. appreciate the name calling. Again this is like saying an apartment owner whose building has appreciated in value 40,000 times over can't fix the plumbing in your unit because all he has in the annual rent because the value of the building is not spendable money. This is an absurd suggestion Collateralized loans for equity extraction are exceedingly common. In household finance, it's called home equity withdrawal. You refinance your mortgage and receive a cash payment when your house increases in value. Ralph could have no trouble getting a revolving line of credit to meet any cash shortfalls. More to the point, the family has made so much money in unrealized capital gains over 40 years that it's an insult that they demand large profits today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted August 24, 2010 Share Posted August 24, 2010 appreciate the name calling. Again this is like saying an apartment owner whose building has appreciated in value 40,000 times over can't fix the plumbing in your unit because all he has in the annual rent because the value of the building is not spendable money. This is an absurd suggestion Collateralized loans for equity extraction are exceedingly common. In household finance, it's called home equity withdrawal. You refinance your mortgage and receive a cash payment when your house increases in value. Ralph could have no trouble getting a revolving line of credit to meet any cash shortfalls. More to the point, the family has made so much money in unrealized capital gains over 40 years that it's an insult that they demand large profits today. Still, taking on that debt at his age and with the likely scenario that the team is going up for sale upon his passing would only serve to drive down the value of the team. The business is being run in the short-term to maximize cash flow and keep debt as low as possible. Mr. Wilson isn't going to sell a minority interest either at this point -- he doesn't have to and doesn't want the headaches after being the sole proprieter since the beginning. Even after estate taxes, the Wilson family will be set up for life. Not a bad legacy to give your children and grandchildren at all. Couple that with the legacy that Mr. Wilson was forever loyal to the Buffalo community and Bills fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted August 24, 2010 Share Posted August 24, 2010 Still, taking on that debt at his age and with the likely scenario that the team is going up for sale upon his passing would only serve to drive down the value of the team. The business is being run in the short-term to maximize cash flow and keep debt as low as possible. Mr. Wilson isn't going to sell a minority interest either at this point -- he doesn't have to and doesn't want the headaches after being the sole proprieter since the beginning. Even after estate taxes, the Wilson family will be set up for life. Not a bad legacy to give your children and grandchildren at all. Couple that with the legacy that Mr. Wilson was forever loyal to the Buffalo community and Bills fans. Fair enough... I think the key here is the Bills have been terribly mismanaged over the past 10 years. There is all kinds of blame to go around for that...No one, Mr Wilson included, wants to lose at OBD...It's simply been one bad decision after the other that lead to comparisons like the ones in this thread (ie Bills=Pirates)...It's not that simple, and it's 2 VERY different Pro leagues anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted August 24, 2010 Share Posted August 24, 2010 Fair enough... I think the key here is the Bills have been terribly mismanaged over the past 10 years. There is all kinds of blame to go around for that...No one, Mr Wilson included, wants to lose at OBD...It's simply been one bad decision after the other that lead to comparisons like the ones in this thread (ie Bills=Pirates)...It's not that simple, and it's 2 VERY different Pro leagues anyway... Oh, I'm not saying Mr. Wilson wants to lose or doesn't care. I think he honestly hopes that he does get lucky and things do work out this (last?) time around. That's a far cry from saying he is going to leverage his team to the hilt, pursue an array of marketing avenues to raise his revenue, build new facilities or move the team to gain revenue, make big name hires in the front office and coaching, dive into free agency with zest, and so on and on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted August 24, 2010 Share Posted August 24, 2010 Hmmm. The Bills are the pirates of the NFL? Isn't that supposed to be a good thing? Maybe the Senator could clear this up for us. Oh, I'm not saying Mr. Wilson wants to lose or doesn't care. I think he honestly hopes that he does get lucky and things do work out this (last?) time around. That's a far cry from saying he is going to leverage his team to the hilt, pursue an array of marketing avenues to raise his revenue, build new facilities or move the team to gain revenue, make big name hires in the front office and coaching, dive into free agency with zest, and so on and on. I kinda agree with you. It wasn't that long ago (maybe his HOF Induction Speech?) that Wilson said you have to be lucky to win in the NFL. I think that Ralph does feel that luck is a big factor. Unfortunately, I think most of us would view luck as a small factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted August 24, 2010 Share Posted August 24, 2010 Sounds like people are finally realizing that this team is being setup for a sale and not for a playoff run. The argument that you dont invest much money in something that you fully intend to sell is right on. Actually, the complete opposite is true on both accounts. First, Ralph has been operating the team the same way he does now for most of 50 years. Second, every single day everywhere people invest money in something they full expect to sell. All the time someone would put $1000 into a car to make it worth 2-3000 more upon sale and much more attractive to prospective buyers. People put a lot of money into their houses to make it back and more on the sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted August 24, 2010 Share Posted August 24, 2010 Hmmm. The Bills are the pirates of the NFL? Isn't that supposed to be a good thing? Maybe the Senator could clear this up for us. I kinda agree with you. It wasn't that long ago (maybe his HOF Induction Speech?) that Wilson said you have to be lucky to win in the NFL. I think that Ralph does feel that luck is a big factor. Unfortunately, I think most of us would view luck as a small factor. Sorry, SJ, too early - haven't even had my morning 'bracer' yet. As far as I know, we still haven't hired... Mike Leach ...so I have no insight about the whole 'prirate thing' - arrrrrrrgh!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lv-Bills Posted August 24, 2010 Share Posted August 24, 2010 (edited) hmmm... the Pirates are a pretty close analogy. the NFL's TV revenue sharing helps the bills pay guys like Evans,whereas the Pirates do not get that kind of money, plus no salary cap in baseball makes it impossible for the pirates to keep their lee evans type players. i think the comparison is fair. plus, the top coaching and management talent will not come to pittsburg or buffalo when better places offer similar money.. the bills have no legitimate shot at the title in their current situation in today's NFL.. no top talent will come when Ralph is soon to pass with everything changing thereafter... who takes a job when they know they will have a new boss soon who will bring in their own people? This isn't true. I agree the Pirates are a close analogy. The Pirates payroll started at 34 million this year. They received 31 million in revenue sharing. So, their payroll was almost completely covered from revenue sharing before the season even started. Their payroll now stands at 44 million with some additions to their 40 man roster, etc. Baseball payrolls can flucuate greatly during the year. No salary cap in baseball makes it harder for the Pirates to keep their players, but not impossible. That's exactly why much is being written about the Pirates lately, because they are profiting great amounts of money over the last three years, and aren't sinking anything into their MAJOR LEAGUE ROSTER. Top players would go to Pittsburgh to play. They've never had trouble getting mid grade free agents, when they pursued them. THey are also known to have what is widely considered the best ballpark in Major League Baseball. The problem with the Pirates is that they NEVER attempt to get anyone worth a damn. Ever. And, on top of that, they don't pay their own players once they achieve success at the major league level. The Pirates are more profitable losing than they are winning. If they start to win, and upgrade their payroll, their profits will decrease. While there is room for more money to be made, upping their payroll to levels of Cincinnati or even Milwaukee would cut down on the bottom line, even if more people attended games. The Pirates are a joke. They are a very profitable franchise, which was shown in their financial statements leak to the AP. Other teams are making a lot less profit while trying to win. THe PIrates just suck the city of Pittsburgh dry by putting an inferior product out there and sucking off of the revenue sharing that is in place in MLB to make money. Bob Nutting is a complete joke in Pittsburgh. He has a failing newspaper, a failing ski resort, and he's the worst owner in Major League sports today. The bad part is......the Bills resemble a lot of how this clown runs the Pirates. I think the Bills are more toward the inept side rather than the pure profit side. But the gap is narrowing. Edited August 24, 2010 by Lv-Bills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfreak Posted August 24, 2010 Share Posted August 24, 2010 (edited) Actually, the complete opposite is true on both accounts. First, Ralph has been operating the team the same way he does now for most of 50 years. Second, every single day everywhere people invest money in something they full expect to sell. All the time someone would put $1000 into a car to make it worth 2-3000 more upon sale and much more attractive to prospective buyers. People put a lot of money into their houses to make it back and more on the sale. That is exactly the problem. The NFL doesn't resemble the same league it was 50 years ago,or 20 years ago for that matter. It is a different business with free agents, big contracts, not to mention the mentality of the athletes is night and day from years ago. Ralph still runs it like it is the old AFL, that is why we have the worst organization in the NFL and will never be a winner as long as he is at the helm. That is true he has paid a few guys big contracts like Evans, but that is because he has to, in order to meet the minimum salary requirements. Edited August 24, 2010 by billsfreak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilson from Gamehendge Posted August 24, 2010 Share Posted August 24, 2010 This is a business! Not an app on iphones. How much does Jerry Johnson or the redskins generate in profits each year. If you can get more you will spend more. I wish you kids would get better educated. How about we look into your finances and tell you how you should spend them to better interest prospective employers to follow your career. My guess is you would not spend what others think you should to make you better. Who the hell is Jerry Johnson? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mob16151 Posted August 25, 2010 Share Posted August 25, 2010 Since I like having a football team, I'll continue to go to Bills games whenever I can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted August 25, 2010 Share Posted August 25, 2010 Who the hell is Jerry Johnson? Jeez ... don't you know ANYTHING???? http://www.jerryjohnsonlive.com/web/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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