Bill Walsh had confidence in Trent Edwards

[mpl6876]

Most ridicules post I've seen here in awhile

 

I wish you would have expanded on why you think the post is ridiculous.

[Guest dog14787]

I wish you would have expanded on why you think the post is ridiculous.

 

 

Anybody that understands the game of football doesn't need me to expand on it.

 

 

Looks like I have a minute before I take off, times have changed since Archie manning played, maybe back then a good QB could carry a team, nowadays its virtually impossible without good coaching/scheming to succeed and then you take the protection away its just not happening. Defenses are to sophisticated to go at it without proper coaching if you want to win football games.

 

In my humble opinion anyway.

[mpl6876]

Anybody that understands the game of football doesn't need me to expand on it.

 

Good copout...

[Guest dog14787]

Good copout...

 

 

OH well, some folks work for a living...

[mpl6876]

Anybody that understands the game of football doesn't need me to expand on it.

 

 

Looks like I have a minute before I take off, times have changed since Archie manning played, maybe back then a good QB could carry a team, nowadays its virtually impossible without good coaching/scheming to succeed and then you take the protection away its just not happening. Defenses are to sophisticated to go at it without proper coaching if you want to win football games.

 

In my humble opinion anyway.

 

Hey dog, I think you didn't understand his post.

[LGB]

Bill Walsh did not know that TE would have two concussions early in his career and would be shell-shocked into capt. check-down mode.

[ieatcrayonz]

Bill Walsh did not know that TE would have two concussions early in his career and would be shell-shocked into capt. check-down mode.

He was also evidently unable to determine that Trent had sucked at every level of football and sucked with Buffalo before the concussions. Brian Moorman and a cornerback had the winning production before Trent's Arizona concussion. You can either believe Walsh was stupid or go with the theory of Occum's shaver and realize we had a practical joke pulled on us.

 

A practical joke is a practical joke. When you are the victim you accept the laughter and move on. Walsh put one over on Marv. There is no reason for this to be the gift of laghter that keeps on giving.

[Cynical]

Bill Walsh did not know that TE would have two concussions early in his career and would be shell-shocked into capt. check-down mode.

 

Thus proving Bill Walsh was no better than anybody else at predicting how well a player would perform at the NFL level.

Nobody has the capacity to predict how a player will react psychologically when they face adversity.

[bbillyfootballcoach]

Anybody that understands the game of football doesn't need me to expand on it.

 

 

Looks like I have a minute before I take off, times have changed since Archie manning played, maybe back then a good QB could carry a team, nowadays its virtually impossible without good coaching/scheming to succeed and then you take the protection away its just not happening. Defenses are to sophisticated to go at it without proper coaching if you want to win football games.

 

In my humble opinion anyway.

 

NOPE! the guy was actually right on. just look at aarron rogers, or other guys who play good under pressure, TE played like garbage always, hes never shown any flashes of talent. The best anyone can say is "5 and 1, 5 and 1, oh yes yes 5 and 1. SO those were typical dump off games where they beat weak teams. Once teams realised thats all he did, hes never been even slightly successful.

 

You really dont get it. Its his fault, he sucks period and when he gets a good oline and system, he will look average at best. Thats what u want? A guy who needs everything perfect to be average? Ill take 25 other starters right now over TE, who isnt better right now than him? the guys i wouldnt take are just equally bad, not worse.

[bbillyfootballcoach]

Bill Walsh did not know that TE would have two concussions early in his career and would be shell-shocked into capt. check-down mode.

he always checked down always go look at ll his first games, losman never would, thats why it worked....for a while

[mpl6876]

NOPE! the guy was actually right on. just look at aarron rogers, or other guys who play good under pressure, TE played like garbage always, hes never shown any flashes of talent. The best anyone can say is "5 and 1, 5 and 1, oh yes yes 5 and 1. SO those were typical dump off games where they beat weak teams. Once teams realised thats all he did, hes never been even slightly successful.

 

You really dont get it. Its his fault, he sucks period and when he gets a good oline and system, he will look average at best. Thats what u want? A guy who needs everything perfect to be average? Ill take 25 other starters right now over TE, who isnt better right now than him? the guys i wouldnt take are just equally bad, not worse.

 

Hey, I heard dicks sporting goods has trent edwards uniforms for sale. I just thought you may be interested in picking one up.

[Guest dog14787]

NOPE! the guy was actually right on. just look at aarron rogers, or other guys who play good under pressure, TE played like garbage always, hes never shown any flashes of talent. The best anyone can say is "5 and 1, 5 and 1, oh yes yes 5 and 1. SO those were typical dump off games where they beat weak teams. Once teams realised thats all he did, hes never been even slightly successful.

 

You really dont get it. Its his fault, he sucks period and when he gets a good oline and system, he will look average at best. Thats what u want? A guy who needs everything perfect to be average? Ill take 25 other starters right now over TE, who isnt better right now than him? the guys i wouldnt take are just equally bad, not worse.

 

 

We have one QB in the NFL who flies by the seat of his pants and makes plays on the run/ gets sacked allot, Aaron Rodgers. Last I checked there is only one Aaron Rodgers. Most of the successful QB's like the Romo's and the Brady's have some of the best coaching in the league and most of them also have decent protection.

 

So unless you want to clone Aaron Rodgers I hardly see what he does for your argument and Rodgers coaching and protection haven't been near as bad as TE's in my opinion.

[Adam]

+1.

 

Dick and concussions create a big if, but I wholeheartedly believe he has the talent and brains to be successful in this league. Not sure if too much damage is done already, but I'm sure hoping not, and that Chan can work some magic.

The offensive line woes are not Dick Jaurons's fault. That falls to Brandon, Donahoe, Butler and Koufax

[FreakPop]

We have one QB in the NFL who flies by the seat of his pants and makes plays on the run/ gets sacked allot, Aaron Rodgers. Last I checked there is only one Aaron Rodgers. Most of the successful QB's like the Romo's and the Brady's have some of the best coaching in the league and most of them also have decent protection.

 

So unless you want to clone Aaron Rodgers I hardly see what he does for your argument and Rodgers coaching and protection haven't been near as bad as TE's in my opinion.

 

 

bbilly is absolutely right. You just don't get it and never will dog.

[Hey Hey]

Walsh and Marv were buds from back in the day.

 

Walsh was a notorious practical joker.

 

Walsh told Marv to draft a particular Glove Wearing Mary from Los Gatos.

 

Said Glove Wearing Mary from Los Gatos has spent 3 years stinking up the joint and blaming everyone else.

 

You do the math.

That glove wearing Mary has the worst line in the league and no one to throw to besides Lee. Wouldn't you check down if you had 2 damn seconds to throw the ball. Let him play in front of a competent line before we deem him Mary.

[reddogblitz]

That glove wearing Mary has the worst line in the league and no one to throw to besides Lee. Wouldn't you check down if you had 2 damn seconds to throw the ball. Let him play in front of a competent line before we deem him Mary.

Fitz had the same line TE did and he didn't feel the need to check down all the time. Neither did BB in his one start. In fact, Fitz set the record for the longest TD pass in Bills history, 98 yards. Sure, our line hasn't been good, but to say TE can't do better because of them is a weak cop out excuse.

[Guest dog14787]

bbilly is absolutely right. You just don't get it and never will dog.

 

 

Oh I get it, I Get that some folks have this silly notion a QB can be successful without any help.

 

I get it that folks like you think TE's a bad QB, but what do you know, Chan Gailey seems to think TE has potential,

 

Let me see here, who should I believe, you are Chan Gailey,

 

 

I think I'll go with Chan Gailey

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

We have one QB in the NFL who flies by the seat of his pants and makes plays on the run/ gets sacked allot, Aaron Rodgers. Last I checked there is only one Aaron Rodgers. Most of the successful QB's like the Romo's and the Brady's have some of the best coaching in the league and most of them also have decent protection.

 

So unless you want to clone Aaron Rodgers I hardly see what he does for your argument and Rodgers coaching and protection haven't been near as bad as TE's in my opinion.

 

 

Brady made Belichick, not the other way around. Belichick was dead man walking if Bleedslow hadn't gotten himself nearly killed.

[Guest dog14787]

Brady made Belichick, not the other way around. Belichick was dead man walking if Bleedslow hadn't gotten himself nearly killed.

 

I used to think that myself until Belicheat took a nobody that hadn't started since High School and won 10 games in the NFL with him.(10-6)

 

Tom Brady is an excellent QB, but he wouldn't have won Championships without Belicheat in my opinion.

[Da Big Man]

I can't believe anyone would try to rally support for this QB. What happened to the promises from that fossil Wilson that we were going to get a good GM ( Buddy Nix...not), a good coach ( Chan Galey....not) and God willing a proven quality QB....NOT More of the same with a whole bunch of built in excuses for defeat already. I.E. New 3-4 players in positions they have never played before.

[Red]

Bill Walsh wasn't some web jamoke touting a player. The guy knew QB talent. That said, QB's have to be molded. It's easy to believe that bad coaching can waste potential.

 

Chan Gailey has the reputation of being an offensive wiz who can get the best out of limited talent. If Trent still possesses what Bill Walsh saw, if two years of Dick(less) and a concussion haven't completely ruined him, then I think Chan can turn him around.

 

PTR

 

Agreed.

 

One Trent's side, he has had no offensive line since he has been playing, has had no offensive identity or philosophy, has not had any supporting cast, and was thrown into the fire in his first game against the Tom Brady Bills nemesis Patriots in New England. He's been seriously injured not once, but twice due to poor offensive line talent, and seems a bit gun-shy because of it. Similar to Tim Connolly of the Sabres. Trent though, I think can recover.

 

On the negative side, he has had some time to demonstrate something, and other than when he came in that first year in relief of Losman, he has not shown too much. And as others have mentioned, Walsh was not infallible. He was human. We all can make mistakes.

 

I think this year will be the determining factor in Trent's future with the Bills. I hope he succeeds.

[LGB]

I think this year will be the determining factor in Trent's future with the Bills. I hope he succeeds.

...that is what we said last year and how many years did we say that with JP? The same for Maybin...or McCargo...or Whitner or how many other bust high draft picks?

[Cynical]

Oh I get it, I Get that some folks have this silly notion a QB can be successful without any help.

 

I get it that folks like you think TE's a bad QB, but what do you know, Chan Gailey seems to think TE has potential,

 

Let me see here, who should I believe, you are Chan Gailey,

 

 

I think I'll go with Chan Gailey

 

Another cop out.

 

You can't argue against the facts so you hide behind HC.

 

I remember the Jauron apologists trying to argue something similar. How did that work out?

[Adam]

Another cop out.

 

You can't argue against the facts so you hide behind HC.

 

I remember the Jauron apologists trying to argue something similar. How did that work out?

Sorry, but we will continue to stink up the field no matter who the coach or QB is until the offensive and defensive lines solidify.

 

Jauron's biggest flaw was that he couldn't tackle or pass.

 

We have no starting caliber OT on the roster and Kyle Williams isn't a starting caliber NT, despite being the best we have.

[eball]

Another cop out.

 

You can't argue against the facts so you hide behind HC.

 

I remember the Jauron apologists trying to argue something similar. How did that work out?

What's Gailey's coaching record? How many winning teams has he been around as a coach?

 

If anyone has to "hide" behind a HC, it should be a coach with as impressive a resume as Gailey.

 

You may now return to your regularly scheduled "Edwards blows" rant.

[LGB]

TE is one Pat LaFontaine hit away from reaching an injury settlement with the Bills and is why the Bills will carry four QBs this year (one on the practice squad).

[Cynical]

What's Gailey's coaching record? How many winning teams has he been around as a coach?

 

If anyone has to "hide" behind a HC, it should be a coach with as impressive a resume as Gailey.

 

Sorry. I must have missed the part on Chan's resume where it said "God".

 

And until Trent can prove he is productive in an actual game, any "Chan knows best" excuse is a cop out.

The reality is, nobody knows how Trent will react once the pads start hitting for real.

[ChasBB]

Bill Walsh wanted to draft Steve Fuller over Joe Montana but couldn't because Marv beat him to it.

 

What did Steve Fuller ever do in the NFL? Oh yeah, he was awarded a gold record and a platinum video award for the 1985 "Super Bowl Shuffle", for which he was the sixth of the ten solo singers. So I guess Bill was onto something here.

Well, we simply don't know how things would have played out. Maybe Fuller would have been the next big time QB under Walsh and maybe Montana would have wasted away on some other team's roster. So many dynamics go into comparisons like this to the point where it is really just impossible to say what would have happened under other circumstances.

[Pilsner]

There is plenty of Edwards bashing that goes on daily on this board. However, I go back to Bill Walsh. Walsh drafted some of the greatest players this league has ever known and he endorsed our very own Trent Edwards. In the end, I feel Bill Walsh will be right once again. Go Edwards and Go BILLS!

 

 

Bill Walsh wasn't always right. Far from it. But he was right more than most i'de venture to say. No one is ever right all the time. But I think he was right more often than 50% of the people in his league. So considering that, I'de still give Bill Walsh the benefit of the doubt about Trent's potential. The guy just needs a proper coach which he's never had. Maybe he needs the right system too. If he fails with Chan (he who can make the most out of not much with qb's) then i'de be willing to say Trent is a failure for the NFL. But Let's see what he can finally do with a real coach teaching him. Chan has to undo a lot of things that Trent was taught in the past by the Jauron regime.

[Adam]

Bill Walsh wasn't always right. Far from it. But he was right more than most i'de venture to say. No one is ever right all the time. But I think he was right more often than 50% of the people in his league. So considering that, I'de still give Bill Walsh the benefit of the doubt about Trent's potential. The guy just needs a proper coach which he's never had. Maybe he needs the right system too. If he fails with Chan (he who can make the most out of not much with qb's) then i'de be willing to say Trent is a failure for the NFL. But Let's see what he can finally do with a real coach teaching him. Chan has to undo a lot of things that Trent was taught in the past by the Jauron regime.

Unless Gailey can teach him to have better protection in front of him, you can expect the same results. Particularly with Evans as the #1 WR

[Pilsner]

Unless Gailey can teach him to have better protection in front of him, you can expect the same results. Particularly with Evans as the #1 WR

 

 

It's a stretch to think that Gailey is as inept offensively as Jauron was. I see what you're saying though. Let's say that the O-line did not gain any experience from last year, that they are the exact same group. Something tells me that Chan will still find a way to have Evans run or mix in more effective routes (example: crossing routes) and that Chan will help Edwards with his reading abilities when it comes to the opposing D. Edwards is bound to do at least 1% better. And now let's say that the O-line has gained a tad bit of experience from last year. Now I'm being conservative here but let's add another 1% of improvement here. So that's 2% more than we had from last year. This is not at all too much to ask. But in all honestly i'm thinking more than a 2% overall improvement. I'm being realistic here. My expectations here are not shooting for the moon as u can see. They are Realistic expectations.

[FreakPop]

Sorry. I must have missed the part on Chan's resume where it said "God".

 

And until Trent can prove he is productive in an actual game, any "Chan knows best" excuse is a cop out.

The reality is, nobody knows how Trent will react once the pads start hitting for real.

 

 

I do! and didn't we see this bad "B" movie once already last year?

 

Bad oline this, bad oline that, bad coaching this or that, the bottom line is while compairing Trent to Fitz last year Fitz way way way outperformed Trent with the exact same circumstances surrounding him. Why again is Trent being given another opportunity to prove he is a failure? This is something the "clued in" already know, this movie has already played itself out.

[LGB]

I do! and didn't we see this bad "B" movie once already last year?

 

Bad oline this, bad oline that, bad coaching this or that, the bottom line is while compairing Trent to Fitz last year Fitz way way way outperformed Trent with the exact same circumstances surrounding him. Why again is Trent being given another opportunity to prove he is a failure? This is something the "clued in" already know, this movie has already played itself out.

Once the red training camp QB shirts come off, it will be Fitz again.

[Guest dog14787]

Sorry. I must have missed the part on Chan's resume where it said "God".

 

And until Trent can prove he is productive in an actual game, any "Chan knows best" excuse is a cop out.

The reality is, nobody knows how Trent will react once the pads start hitting for real.

 

 

Why not wait and see how things go once the regular season gets here before you become so Cynical or Freak out over the idea of Trent leading our football team. One of the biggest changes so far in Trent Edwards is he's looking down field every chance he gets now and its starting to pay dividends.

 

I had a gut feeling a long time ago Trent Edwards was going to struggle because of protection problems so I started this thread called " We need to protect the baby" or something real stupid sounding of that nature. It was a very embarrassing thread and I drew allot of flack, but true to form my gut feeling has amazing accuracy and TE's development has been severely hampered by poor protection.

 

Chan Gailey in my opinion realizes he has brought TE back from the brink of destruction, but now he faces the very difficult task of protecting him with an inexperienced O-line.

[Cynical]

Why not wait and see how things go once the regular season gets here before you become so Cynical or Freak out over the idea of Trent leading our football team.

 

1.) Practice what you preach.

2.) I will be cynical of Trent's play because after 3 years of watching him play, it has not been good. Not all of his problems were due OL, coaching, etc.. Even Jauron got frustrated with Trent's unwillingness to throw down field citing "missed opportunities" more than once in post game interviews. Recently, Edwards has finally admitted he failed to take chances down field.

3.) I am not freaking out over Trent leading this team as long as he is capable of doing it, which takes us back to #1. Let's wait and see how the regular season goes before declaring Edwards a "championship" QB.

 

One of the biggest changes so far in Trent Edwards is he's looking down field every chance he gets now and its starting to pay dividends.

 

He has done the same thing the last 2 TC. Again, let's wait and see how the regular season goes before declaring him "saved" or "on a mission". The Dean made a very good point in another thread. Trent looks great when not under

pressure. Apply pressure, and Trent's playing goes to hell.

 

I had a gut feeling a long time ago Trent Edwards was going to struggle because of protection problems so I started this thread called " We need to protect the baby" or something real stupid sounding of that nature. It was a very embarrassing thread and I drew allot of flack, but true to form my gut feeling has amazing accuracy and TE's development has been severely hampered by poor protection.

 

Chan Gailey in my opinion realizes he has brought TE back from the brink of destruction, but now he faces the very difficult task of protecting him with an inexperienced O-line.

 

Once again, I must have missed the part of Chan's resume where it says "God". If anything, I would be willing to bet Chan has concerns regarding how Edwards will react come the regular season. Don't gloss over the facts:

1. if the Bills had the opportunity to draft Bradford, they would have

2. the Bills tried to acquire a veteran QB during the off season

 

Gailey is working with what he has, but it's obvious he was not overly comfortable with what he's got.

[Adam]

I do! and didn't we see this bad "B" movie once already last year?

 

Bad oline this, bad oline that, bad coaching this or that, the bottom line is while compairing Trent to Fitz last year Fitz way way way outperformed Trent with the exact same circumstances surrounding him. Why again is Trent being given another opportunity to prove he is a failure? This is something the "clued in" already know, this movie has already played itself out.

Same circumstances? Same opponents, same plays run in the same formations under the same conditions? Please....

 

We have bigger problems than QB and you will have to accept that. We have what we have and Edwards is probebly the best of that bunch

[FreakPop]

Same circumstances? Same opponents, same plays run in the same formations under the same conditions? Please....

 

We have bigger problems than QB and you will have to accept that. We have what we have and Edwards is probebly the best of that bunch

 

Is that so?

 

Hmmmm...... Fitz was 5-4 last year with the same teammates Trent had. Explain to us again how Trent is the best of the bunch!

[Adam]

Is that so?

 

Hmmmm...... Fitz was 5-4 last year with the same teammates Trent had. Explain to us again how Trent is the best of the bunch!

The TEAM was 5-4 against which opponents? How did we match up with those teams- did somebody on our team have a standout game, or did someone on the opposing team have a subpar game?

 

Neither QB has been able to show a heck of a lot, but we aren't good enough to claim that it is all about QB play. The worst line play in the league has made our QBs tentative. Whoever loses the battle should be our starting LT.

 

And by the way, as a statistician, I can tell you for certain, that QB's don't get win/loss records like pitchers do- nor are there unearned points. Despite the fact that Flutie "Just Wins"

[reddogblitz]

The TEAM was 5-4 against which opponents? How did we match up with those teams- did somebody on our team have a standout game, or did someone on the opposing team have a subpar game?

 

Neither QB has been able to show a heck of a lot, but we aren't good enough to claim that it is all about QB play. The worst line play in the league has made our QBs tentative. Whoever loses the battle should be our starting LT.

 

And by the way, as a statistician, I can tell you for certain, that QB's don't get win/loss records like pitchers do- nor are there unearned points. Despite the fact that Flutie "Just Wins"

With Fitz as the Bills leading passer, the bills beat: Jets, Dophins, Panthers, Chiefs, Colts With Trent, Tampa Bay.

 

Watch this.

 

Gutsy performance in crunch time against a pretty good team. 31 yard TD run (Buffalo Bills franchise record), run for a first down, 51 yard pass to TO. Leadership.

 

Why does everyone assume Trent can improve and Fitz cannot?

 

And while I agree that a QB is only 1 of 22 guys on a team, the QB, with the proper mindset, leadership, and talent can propel a team to greater heights. The Cowboys were good under Craig Morton, but didn't achieve the success of the 70s until Roger took over late in a playoff game against the 49ers the same day as the Immaculate Reception. The Titans in 2000 were floundering until Trent Dilfer took over leadership of the team. And of course the 1999 Bills were going nowhere until Flute took over and then all of the sudden we were a nuch better team.

 

The QB is the leader. If he doesn't lead, the team is not as good. It's just a football 101 fact. Ignore it at your own peril Bills fans.

[Adam]

With Fitz as the Bills leading passer, the bills beat: Jets, Dophins, Panthers, Chiefs, Colts With Trent, Tampa Bay.

 

Watch this.

 

Gutsy performance in crunch time against a pretty good team. 31 yard TD run (Buffalo Bills franchise record), run for a first down, 51 yard pass to TO. Leadership.

 

Why does everyone assume Trent can improve and Fitz cannot?

 

And while I agree that a QB is only 1 of 22 guys on a team, the QB, with the proper mindset, leadership, and talent can propel a team to greater heights. The Cowboys were good under Craig Morton, but didn't achieve the success of the 70s until Roger took over late in a playoff game against the 49ers the same day as the Immaculate Reception. The Titans in 2000 were floundering until Trent Dilfer took over leadership of the team. And of course the 1999 Bills were going nowhere until Flute took over and then all of the sudden we were a nuch better team.

 

The QB is the leader. If he doesn't lead, the team is not as good. It's just a football 101 fact. Ignore it at your own peril Bills fans.

An impressive bunch of teams. I never said Fitzpatrick can't improve. Personally, I don't think we have seen the best of either guy.....how could we, behind the ragtag line we have