Benefit of the doubt for Nix / Gailey

[Thurman#1]

Jeremy, your personal attacks are unwarranted and uncalled for. However, I don't take them personally.

 

Your post makes little sense with the exception of "bashing" me. I am not here to get into a pissing contest with you or anyone else.

 

I stand by my original post 100%.

 

Hope you have a nice day. No hard feelings here.

 

 

 

Wish I could handle nonsense this nicely.

[Thurman#1]

I think the plan is to make the Bills a run and stop the run team. Big, strong and tough and to make the Ralph an unenjoyable place for opposing teams. To do this, we need to stop the run first and that is why the FO is going to a 3-4 and putting most of the attention on the defense in the first year of the rebuild. And it makes sense. If the worst coaches and worst OL in the league could win 6-7 game a year, it standa to reason a quality, proven, offensive coach like Gailey - with a healthy, albeit marginal line and QB- can produce points. He's done it everywhere he's gone. Our offensive talent is better now than it was last year.

 

Defense this year, offense next year. We had 19 guys on IR last year and countless combinations in the OL, no real OC and we still prodced a 1,000 yard rusher. Give the young guys on the OL this year to see what they have and next year act on the QB and any other OL problems, be it draft or FA. We don't need an all world OL this year because they are going to be run blocking for the most part.

 

That is their thinking and they are sticking to it and not running scattershot to fill all the holes they have by mortgaging the future. Gailey is down with this and merely asked for one thing which he got .....his scat back and homerun threat. This year is about the D.

 

 

 

You may be right about this plan.

 

I disagree with "defense this year, offense next year," though. Our first, fourth, fifth and our two seventh-round picks were on the offense. That's five out of nine, including the first-rounder. We split our picks reasonably evenly. We went offense, we just didn't manage to address our two biggest needs there.

 

And while I love most of this plan, in the long term, I really do question the "we need to see these guys for a year before we judge them" thing that Chan and Buddy seem to be doing in the OL and QB. How come other new coaches manage to figure out what they have by looking at film of last year?

 

I also have a problem with getting excited about having a 1,000 yard rusher. It means nothing these days. There were 15 of them in the league last year and there were probably 10 - 15 more guys who would have been there if they'd been given enough carries: Turner, Marion Barber, Jerome Harrison, Pierre Thomas, Beanie Wells, Ahmad Bradshaw, Ronnie Brown, Correll Buckhalter, LeSean McCoy, Justin Forsett, Snelling, Hightower, Michael Bush, McGahee, much as I hate him I have to admit this, Shonn Green, and the list goes on and on. Over 16 game season,s, you only have to average 62.5 yards per game. This is just not difficult, not even slightly. It's just a matter of giving most guys enough carries.

[Thurman#1]

Why don't you go find your helmet!!

 

 

 

Ha ha ha. You made me laugh.

 

You do know that I'm not the real Thurman, though, right? I'm guessing you do, but I've actually had a few posters who thought I was the real thing.

[CarolinaBill]

You may be right about this plan.

 

I disagree with "defense this year, offense next year," though. Our first, fourth, fifth and our two seventh-round picks were on the offense. That's five out of nine, including the first-rounder. We split our picks reasonably evenly. We went offense, we just didn't manage to address our two biggest needs there.

 

And while I love most of this plan, in the long term, I really do question the "we need to see these guys for a year before we judge them" thing that Chan and Buddy seem to be doing in the OL and QB. How come other new coaches manage to figure out what they have by looking at film of last year?

I think our situation is a little different, hence the wait n see approach

 

for the OT's, bell has barely played organized football, and was never supposed to play last year, while his athleticism is well documented his actual football intelligence is rather limited at this point. The potential is enough to keep him and take a look, at least for one more year.

for Meredith, he's a RT, plain and simple, he's big and strong, but not as quick as you want, and relies on his strength over technique. Obviously, something didnt work in GB (seems to be a trend) but the kid has enough skill and talent to take a flier on like we did. the question is, can he play left if we need him to, yes, but he should fit at the RT spot better.

 

Neither of them should've played last yr, but they did, and they are probably better for it, b ut it was brutal to watch at the time.

 

In terms of the QB's:

fitz is a good backup thats all, I really think Chan has included him in the battle out of respect for his work ethic and he has no real chance to win the Job.

trent has the "what if" moniker attached to him, what if he had a better line, better coaches, better wr's etc. bottom line is he's been a career loser and has never been a statistical marvel, but he has a nice skill set physically and is smart enough to play at this level so he is intriguing to chan, at least for now. whats most important about trent is that he's a "small ball" QB, he's never been too keen a stretching the field consistently either college or pros.

Brohm is the wildcard, the great unknown, and the ultimate reclimation project for Chan, highly recruited, highly touted coming out of college, a winner, heisman candidate, potential top-10 pick, he flamed out greatly in GB for whatever reasons you want to believe. Aside from that, if you look at the player, you see a guy that was a winner, put up big stats, and has all the physical and mental attributes you want in an NFL QB. Its rare that a team spends such a high pick on a player only to give up on him so quick (or so it seems). what's important to remember about Brohm is that he has the superior physical skill set, and has never been shy to go deep, Kinda the anti-trent. He has the highest upside and is the only real (albeit a longshot) chance to be a longterm answer at QB.

 

Also, i bet chan wants to see how each one adapts to his system, its no secret that we had a JV OC last year calling plays out of a C-team playbook.

 

 

ALL THESE PLAYERS ARE CHEAP AND EASILY REPLACEABLE, I think that is another big reason for the approach we saw this year, trent and brohm are FA/RFA after this year so if they both suck they can both be cut, no problems there. Same goes for Meredith and Bell, if neither one turns out to be starting material, they can be buried on the bench or released without threat of a major cap hit.

[folz]

i dislike a lot

- a nobody at DC who has never been a full fledged pro DC before installing a whole new defense

 

 

These clowns have no more chance of succeeding than their predecessors, maybe less.

 

I mean let's be real, Modkins? Edwards?

 

 

I'm not saying this should or will make you feel better about him, but George Edwards has been an NFL

Defensive Coordinator before and he had already been hired to be the defensive coordinator for

one of the top college teams (Florida) before leaving to come to Buffalo. So, I wouldn't say he was a nobody.

 

1991-1997 Coached in the college ranks for Duke, Florida, Appalachian State, and Georgia

1998-2001 Dallas Cowboys: LB coach

2002 Washington Redskins: Assistant Defensive Coordinator/Linebackers coach

2003 Washington Redskins: Defensive Coordinator

2004 Cleveland Browns: Linebackers Coach

2005-2009 Miami: Linebackers Coach

2010: Hired as Defensive Coordinator of the University of Florida Gators

 

His DC stint with the Redskins ended when Spurrier resigned (he was not retained by Joe Gibbs)

 

He was one of only 2 coaches retained by Sparano after taking over the job from Cam Cameron in Miami.

In fact, he started with Saban, was retained by Cameron, and then retained again by Sparano.

 

He has worked under Nick Saban (a Belichick disciple), Steve Spurrier, Marvin Lewis, Dom Capers, Dave Campo, Mike Zimmer, among others. There have been some articles saying he will run a Saban style 3-4.

 

Prominent names Edwards has coached throughout his career include Richard Seymour and Marcus Stroud (Georgia); Dexter Coakley (Dallas); LaVar Arrington, Jesse Armstead and Jeremiah Trotter (Washington); and Jason Taylor, Zach Thomas and Joey Porter (Miami). Former Florida now Dolphins LB Channing Crowder has referred to Edwards as “the best assistant coach in the NFL, period.”

 

Plus, twice in his career he has been involved in changing a D from a 4-3 to a 3-4 (as a linebacker coach--and

we all realize how important the LBs are in a 3-4 system and probably where our D needs the most help).

 

Sounds like a pretty solid choice for what the team planned to do. We'll see if he works out or not, but he isn't

a nobody without experience.

[mpl6876]

I think our situation is a little different, hence the wait n see approach

 

for the OT's, bell has barely played organized football, and was never supposed to play last year, while his athleticism is well documented his actual football intelligence is rather limited at this point. The potential is enough to keep him and take a look, at least for one more year.

for Meredith, he's a RT, plain and simple, he's big and strong, but not as quick as you want, and relies on his strength over technique. Obviously, something didnt work in GB (seems to be a trend) but the kid has enough skill and talent to take a flier on like we did. the question is, can he play left if we need him to, yes, but he should fit at the RT spot better.

 

Neither of them should've played last yr, but they did, and they are probably better for it, b ut it was brutal to watch at the time.

 

In terms of the QB's:

fitz is a good backup thats all, I really think Chan has included him in the battle out of respect for his work ethic and he has no real chance to win the Job.

trent has the "what if" moniker attached to him, what if he had a better line, better coaches, better wr's etc. bottom line is he's been a career loser and has never been a statistical marvel, but he has a nice skill set physically and is smart enough to play at this level so he is intriguing to chan, at least for now. whats most important about trent is that he's a "small ball" QB, he's never been too keen a stretching the field consistently either college or pros.

Brohm is the wildcard, the great unknown, and the ultimate reclimation project for Chan, highly recruited, highly touted coming out of college, a winner, heisman candidate, potential top-10 pick, he flamed out greatly in GB for whatever reasons you want to believe. Aside from that, if you look at the player, you see a guy that was a winner, put up big stats, and has all the physical and mental attributes you want in an NFL QB. Its rare that a team spends such a high pick on a player only to give up on him so quick (or so it seems). what's important to remember about Brohm is that he has the superior physical skill set, and has never been shy to go deep, Kinda the anti-trent. He has the highest upside and is the only real (albeit a longshot) chance to be a longterm answer at QB.

 

Also, i bet chan wants to see how each one adapts to his system, its no secret that we had a JV OC last year calling plays out of a C-team playbook.

 

 

ALL THESE PLAYERS ARE CHEAP AND EASILY REPLACEABLE, I think that is another big reason for the approach we saw this year, trent and brohm are FA/RFA after this year so if they both suck they can both be cut, no problems there. Same goes for Meredith and Bell, if neither one turns out to be starting material, they can be buried on the bench or released without threat of a major cap hit.

 

Bill, with all due respect I really think that is quite a weak argument. I think there is enough film on our guys to make a quality informed decision that many of our players lack talent. IMO, this wait and see attitude is nothing but excuses for the organization's lack of progress and pick ups. The cheap and easily replaceable argument does nothing to make this team better. That is just another unacceptable excuse. Where are the replacements? Who are they? Should Bell/Merideth even start this year? So far, BB has proven he isn't an NFL starting or backup QB for that matter. As a result, I am not very "high" on his chance for success as a Bill.

[ChasBB]

Something else unique for Gailey this go-round -- he got to choose his ENTIRE staff. He didn't have that opportunity in Dallas where the DC remained in place when Gailey took over as HC. So, this is the first time in Gailey's NFL career that he has a staff that is 100% of his own making. I'm looking forward to how things develop.

[mpl6876]

Something else unique for Gailey this go-round -- he got to choose his ENTIRE staff. He didn't have that opportunity in Dallas where the DC remained in place when Gailey took over as HC. So, this is the first time in Gailey's NFL career that he has a staff that is 100% of his own making. I'm looking forward to how things develop.

 

Impressive Offensive/Defensive Coordinator selections huh?

[Thurman#1]

I think our situation is a little different, hence the wait n see approach

 

for the OT's, bell has barely played organized football, and was never supposed to play last year, while his athleticism is well documented his actual football intelligence is rather limited at this point. The potential is enough to keep him and take a look, at least for one more year.

for Meredith, he's a RT, plain and simple, he's big and strong, but not as quick as you want, and relies on his strength over technique. Obviously, something didnt work in GB (seems to be a trend) but the kid has enough skill and talent to take a flier on like we did. the question is, can he play left if we need him to, yes, but he should fit at the RT spot better.

 

Neither of them should've played last yr, but they did, and they are probably better for it, b ut it was brutal to watch at the time.

 

In terms of the QB's:

fitz is a good backup thats all, I really think Chan has included him in the battle out of respect for his work ethic and he has no real chance to win the Job.

trent has the "what if" moniker attached to him, what if he had a better line, better coaches, better wr's etc. bottom line is he's been a career loser and has never been a statistical marvel, but he has a nice skill set physically and is smart enough to play at this level so he is intriguing to chan, at least for now. whats most important about trent is that he's a "small ball" QB, he's never been too keen a stretching the field consistently either college or pros.

Brohm is the wildcard, the great unknown, and the ultimate reclimation project for Chan, highly recruited, highly touted coming out of college, a winner, heisman candidate, potential top-10 pick, he flamed out greatly in GB for whatever reasons you want to believe. Aside from that, if you look at the player, you see a guy that was a winner, put up big stats, and has all the physical and mental attributes you want in an NFL QB. Its rare that a team spends such a high pick on a player only to give up on him so quick (or so it seems). what's important to remember about Brohm is that he has the superior physical skill set, and has never been shy to go deep, Kinda the anti-trent. He has the highest upside and is the only real (albeit a longshot) chance to be a longterm answer at QB.

 

Also, i bet chan wants to see how each one adapts to his system, its no secret that we had a JV OC last year calling plays out of a C-team playbook.

 

 

ALL THESE PLAYERS ARE CHEAP AND EASILY REPLACEABLE, I think that is another big reason for the approach we saw this year, trent and brohm are FA/RFA after this year so if they both suck they can both be cut, no problems there. Same goes for Meredith and Bell, if neither one turns out to be starting material, they can be buried on the bench or released without threat of a major cap hit.

 

 

 

See, you've figured it out. How come Chan can't.

 

Although the whole "bell has barely played organized football, and was never supposed to play last year, while his athleticism is well documented his actual football intelligence is rather limited at this point" thing doesn't correspond to reality. This is his third year in the NFL and he played three years of football including two years of LT in college. That isn't "barely played organized football" in my book, and shouldn't be in yours either.

 

Take another look, for at least another year? Sure. Have only him and Meredith fighting it out for starter? No way.

 

Cheap and easily replaceable? Sure. Can be cut? Couldn't disagree with you for a second. Therefore deserve another year for as the only possible starters on the roster for Chan to take a look? That's what Chan is saying, and while I generally like what Chan is doing, these moves aren't just questionable, they look pretty bad. I'd love to be wrong. But don't bet on it in these cases.

[spartacus]

I agreed with your Spiller assessment at the time of the draft, and pretty much still do today. But I also have to believe that Nix and Gailey are not stupid and have a 3-4 year plan, and that Spiller fits into that long range plan. I have to believe this because if this is not true and they just went with the "best available" I would have to blow my brains out (overly dramatic? ).

". . .3-4 year plan, and that Spiller fits into that long range plan."

 

 

and there in lies the problem.

 

 

RBs have a 4 year average shelf life -so when this 4 year plan finally comes to fruition, Spiller will be toast.

 

Better plan would be get the pieces to fix the OL -players who typically play 10+ years - so in 4 years the OL is a dominant force, not still a work in progress with gaping holes at the tackles and no depth on the interior.

 

but the current plan of ignoring the OL has worked so well for the last 15 years, why change now

[Dr. K]

Say what you like. I'm a realist. Doesn't mean I'm correct all the time, far from it, but yeah, optimists find realists pessimistic.

 

Sure. Call yourself a realist. You may be right. Just don't claim you are giving Nix and Gailey the benefit of the doubt, because you are not. That's all I'm saying.

 

Peace.

[BADOLBILZ]

I can see how 10 years of failure can bring us to believe it will never get better but for some odd reason I feel different about these guys. I can go into Nix's experience or Gailey being tough but it's more about following a plan & dedicating yourself to that plan.

 

These guys are going to work this team & see where the current people fit in their plan, no reason to trade for any other players until that's over. We might actually sit a better player than we could bring in, so why bother??

 

Give the boys time, they'll get it right.

 

I think what is lost on people who don't understand the pessimism about the new hirings is the simple fact that when you repeatedly hire people who have not been successful you are very likely to get consistently poor results. Nix and Gailey have not been successful in their current positions. Nix is a former scout who was pulled out of retirement a year ago. Gailey has been fired from middling ACC program GA Tech and as OC of the very lowly KC Chiefs in the past 3 years. The formula is not that far off from the painfully-obvious-at-the-time hiring of Levy/Jauron.

 

They could succeed, but the chances are slim. This organization is seriously downtrodden and the players can't possibly look at the track records of guys like Nix and Gailey and be inspired that these guys have the answers. It was time for a Chuck Knox-like injection of been-there/done-that. It didn't happen that way unfortunately. Hopefully it works out. I like Nix and Gailey, just don't have any trust that they are the right people for the job.

[mpl6876]

Sure. Call yourself a realist. You may be right. Just don't claim you are giving Nix and Gailey the benefit of the doubt, because you are not. That's all I'm saying.

 

Peace.

 

I can't speak for Thurm but I will speak for myself. I gave Nix and Gailey the benefit of the doubt. However, when they failed to adequately address the QB and OL positions , hired a running back coach as an OC , and a suspect DC they lost their credibility with me.

[Bob in STL]

i like a lot:

- a long tenured hard core talent evaluator at GM in Nix

- a HC with an excellent resume as a OC and success (2 of 2 playoff seasons) during his short stint as a pro HC

- a distributed management structure that includes Russ Brandenjew as the slick marketeer with Tom and Doug McKenzie as pro personnel execs

 

i dislike a lot

- a hc that struggled to win big games at the college level

- a hc that doesnt appear to pay much attention to defense

- a nobody at DC who has never been a full fledged pro DC before installing a whole new defense

- a super nobody at OC, which isnt so bad since the hc is really the oc but how much attention can the hc give to oc and not lose focus on other areas that need his attention?

- old school gm who may not be able to adapt to the realities of the modern primadonna atheleteserious prollems entering '10

- all new coaches, cant possibly know the real team makeup and capabilities until real games are played for a bit

- 4 of the 7 front seven on defense are playing brand new positions, usually for the first time ever as a pro

- extremely questionable OLB candidates

- huge hole at wr2 and not even close to an obvious heir apparent

- no OL depth (im actually not concerned with the starters) when the inevitable injuries hit

- no clear starting QB and long odds that any are of the franchise variety

- general lack of quality roster talent due to poor drafting in recent years

 

resulting in realistic best guess projection for the '10 season

- four wins

 

I find it hard to translate sucess at college level to sucess at the pro-level (See Lou Holtz and many others). Going the other way, Pete Carroll and Saban both struggled at the pro-level and won a lot in college. Don't think you can correlate anything there other than adding more coaching and leadership experience to Chan's resume. Other than that, we know that Gailey did a good job at Dallas and was a very good OC in the NFL. Overall his HC resume is better than that his of Gregg Williams, Mike Mularkey, and Dick Jauron. He is not Bill Cowher but he is someone highly recommended by Bill Cowher.

 

A HC that does not pay attention to defense? Wow. How do you get that? Didn't we draft defense in rounds 2 and 3 when most experts said we needed to draft LT and QB? If your statement were true don't you think Chan would have pushed for offense with these picks?

 

A nobody at DC? Did you ever hear of Fewell before he came here? He had no pro level DC experience either and he did a nice job with limited talent. Same with Jerry Gray. There is no reason to believe that the new DC cannot be succesful. I think it is good to have some young blood. Lets give him a chance.

 

Old school GM? How do you know that the players cannot relate to Buddy? And by the way, who cares if they can't ... that is Chan's job. Old school or not, it is refreshing to see someone that actually knows what a football player looks like running the team and making personell decisions.

 

Cannot argue with any of your assessments on our talent, our lack of skill in the trenches, or the uncertainty in our front 7 playing a new scheme .. all very valid. We have lots of holes. It will take two more drafts to fix the talent issues. We will not have an instant 1 year turn around with this regime.

 

Being a Bills fan, I am optimistic about the future. Happy to see Jauron gone and very happy to see Brandon pushed out of the football side of the business.

[BillsfaninFl]

I can see how 10 years of failure can bring us to believe it will never get better but for some odd reason I feel different about these guys. I can go into Nix's experience or Gailey being tough but it's more about following a plan & dedicating yourself to that plan.

 

These guys are going to work this team & see where the current people fit in their plan, no reason to trade for any other players until that's over. We might actually sit a better player than we could bring in, so why bother??

 

Give the boys time, they'll get it right.

 

I've got some prime swampland for sale for you, down here in Florida.

[BillsfaninFl]

I've got some prime swampland for sale for you, down here in Florida.

 

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

 

I sincerely hope you are right, but how can they succeed?

 

The owner thinks like a 90 year old, spends like a 90 year old and meddles with decisions even though he admits he's not a football insider. i.e. - his admission that he doesn't know many people in the league. He also stated that getting top personnel is based on luck and has shown (via his decisions) that he does not understand that elite staff and players are needed to enhance your chances of winning a Super Bowl. Based on his philosophies, if he owned the team for another hundred years, he would eventually get "lucky" again and get a Polian/Levy level staff, with players like Bruce Smith, Jim Kelly, etc. Sooner or later, a Super Bowl would be won. Unfortunately, this will not happen in our lifetime... or Ralph's. So our one hope is for the right kind of owner to take over. Then the team will have a chance to win it all.

[Thurman#1]

Sure. Call yourself a realist. You may be right. Just don't claim you are giving Nix and Gailey the benefit of the doubt, because you are not. That's all I'm saying.

 

Peace.

 

 

 

If you think that giving someone the benefit of the doubt means having unconditional support for every decision made and that you aren't giving someone the benefit of the doubt unless you think they will make the playoffs their first year, then you're right, I'm not giving them the benefit of that much doubt.

 

Again, say what you like. You're pretty clearly wrong from where I sit, but whatever.

[mpl6876]

I find it hard to translate sucess at college level to sucess at the pro-level (See Lou Holtz and many others). Going the other way, Pete Carroll and Saban both struggled at the pro-level and won a lot in college. Don't think you can correlate anything there other than adding more coaching and leadership experience to Chan's resume. Other than that, we know that Gailey did a good job at Dallas and was a very good OC in the NFL. Overall his HC resume is better than that his of Gregg Williams, Mike Mularkey, and Dick Jauron. He is not Bill Cowher but he is someone highly recommended by Bill Cowher.

 

A HC that does not pay attention to defense? Wow. How do you get that? Didn't we draft defense in rounds 2 and 3 when most experts said we needed to draft LT and QB? If your statement were true don't you think Chan would have pushed for offense with these picks?

 

A nobody at DC? Did you ever hear of Fewell before he came here? He had no pro level DC experience either and he did a nice job with limited talent. Same with Jerry Gray. There is no reason to believe that the new DC cannot be succesful. I think it is good to have some young blood. Lets give him a chance.

 

Old school GM? How do you know that the players cannot relate to Buddy? And by the way, who cares if they can't ... that is Chan's job. Old school or not, it is refreshing to see someone that actually knows what a football player looks like running the team and making personell decisions.

 

Cannot argue with any of your assessments on our talent, our lack of skill in the trenches, or the uncertainty in our front 7 playing a new scheme .. all very valid. We have lots of holes. It will take two more drafts to fix the talent issues. We will not have an instant 1 year turn around with this regime.

 

Being a Bills fan, I am optimistic about the future. Happy to see Jauron gone and very happy to see Brandon pushed out of the football side of the business.

 

Wonder how many of us will be saying that about Gailey and Nix?

[mpl6876]

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

 

I sincerely hope you are right, but how can they succeed?

 

The owner thinks like a 90 year old, spends like a 90 year old and meddles with decisions even though he admits he's not a football insider. i.e. - his admission that he doesn't know many people in the league. He also stated that getting top personnel is based on luck and has shown (via his decisions) that he does not understand that elite staff and players are needed to enhance your chances of winning a Super Bowl. Based on his philosophies, if he owned the team for another hundred years, he would eventually get "lucky" again and get a Polian/Levy level staff, with players like Bruce Smith, Jim Kelly, etc. Sooner or later, a Super Bowl would be won. Unfortunately, this will not happen in our lifetime... or Ralph's. So our one hope is for the right kind of owner to take over. Then the team will have a chance to win it all.

 

I have mixed feelings when talking badly about Ralph. He is a pioneer owner going back to the old AFL days. He has done a lot of good for Buffalo. I think he has a great chance to go into the hall of fame. However, it is time for Ralph to pass the reins. He is too old and no longer able to make sound decisions. It reminds me of the Lions and old man Ford. Now, his son or grandson has taken over and the Lions seem to be on the right track. But old man Ford stuck with the incompetent Matt Millin and he set that franchise back years and years.

 

Ralph it is time to hand over the reins. Question is who? and will they remain in Buffalo?

[CarolinaBill]

Bill, with all due respect I really think that is quite a weak argument. I think there is enough film on our guys to make a quality informed decision that many of our players lack talent. IMO, this wait and see attitude is nothing but excuses for the organization's lack of progress and pick ups. The cheap and easily replaceable argument does nothing to make this team better. That is just another unacceptable excuse. Where are the replacements? Who are they? Should Bell/Merideth even start this year? So far, BB has proven he isn't an NFL starting or backup QB for that matter. As a result, I am not very "high" on his chance for success as a Bill.

so 8 games for bell and 4-5 for meredith in last yrs offense, with all those bums surrounding them is enough tape? No, I don't think so, also, you keep saying these guys aren't talented, I don't buy that for a second,. Green yes, but not untalented.

 

so, you don't like who we have, question, who did you want?

Unacceptable answers include, Gaither, Flozelll and Mcneill.

 

On to another point, you continually reference modkins and edwards as being bad selections for OC/DC. Specifically Modkins B/c he hasn't been an OC before. First of all, everybody has to start somewhere, and this is a good way to start, think of him as the asst oc/RB specialist.

 

so again, who would you have liked to see brought in?

 

as far as my argument being weak, well, to each his own, I tend to think its more just the honest truth. I fail to see the point in cleaning house only to realize you threw away several turd covered diamonds. And I bet Chan is thinking along those lines too.