Pilsner Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 The problem with the Bills is that we are never bad enough to get good. 6-10 to 8-8 keeps us picking in the middle of the first. I either want us to win 12 games this year or win 2. If we play ourself out of getting Mallet, Locker, or Luck because Gailey manages to win 7 games the vicious cycle will continue and we will never get any better. If he strikes gold and finds a way to win 12....fine. If we can't do that then here is to 2-14 and a brighter future. I think it's more about good solid drafting and proper developement of young players rather than where you draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 The truth is that yours was a great summary. The Bills have drafted like idiots for many years. They focused on running backs and of course defensive backs at the expense of the lines, and this resulted in having a weak team that nobody fears. It even flew in the face of home field advantage. This is why this optimist/pessimist nonsense is so annoying. We watched them make the same mistakes over and over. Now, should we suddenly expect things to change? The thing is, things might improve. It could happen, but once again we have absolutely horrid OTs, this after managing to trade away the one good one that was on the roster. Spiller is going to need help under any circumstances, as will our quarterback. I hope it works. I don't want to open up old wounds but the short Levy era was a catastrophe which set our franchise back for years. He hired Jauron as the HC. What I can't figure out is why was he such an appealing HC candidate? His record was in general mediocre. In his first draft he took a safety in Whitner and bypassed DT Ngata who is now an all-pro DT. In that same draft he traded a pick to move up and got McCargo because he fit our light and quick defensive scheme. McCargo is a pedestrian player at best while DT Ngata has become a dominant player in the league. Levy was right in his assessment that the OL needed upgrading. But acquiring Langstan Walker, a player the dysfunctional Raiders didn't want, and acquiring Dockery, both at exorbitant prices was nonsensical. I don't blame Jason Peters for wanting a dramatic increase in salary after these two non-descript players got substantially more than he did, their best lineman by far. What is the most absurd aspect of the Levy hiring is that he didn't want to be a GM, he wanted to coach. The clueless owner hired a person who was out of the league for five years and had little knowledge of the players currently playing. The owner stated that he hired Levy because he felt comfortable with him. Levy not being equipped for the job didn't disqualify him for the position because the silly owner was comforatable around the congenial, and also inept, Levy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 The Bills are by far the worst team in its own division. That is not a hill, it is a rugged mountain. The Bills are not close to being a playoff team. No one who is serious can make that claim. I defy you to find an outside analyst who considers the Bills to be a serious playoff contender. Those analysts you refer to know nothing. All they do is tell you what your team did last year. Don't believe me? Then who picked the Bengals to win the AFC North? People are frustrated over missing the playoffs but we never missed by that much. 2-3 games. But you know what? In the end it doesn't matter what we do. When we used to go the playoffs people bitched because we didn't win. When we won playoff games people bitched because we didn't win Super Bowls. People B word PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hossage Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 I didnt pick the Bengals to win the AFC North. I did notice they had a surprisingly solid defense in 2008, made up of players who until two years ago seemed pretty soft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 Those analysts you refer to know nothing. All they do is tell you what your team did last year. Don't believe me? Then who picked the Bengals to win the AFC North? People are frustrated over missing the playoffs but we never missed by that much. 2-3 games. But you know what? In the end it doesn't matter what we do. When we used to go the playoffs people bitched because we didn't win. When we won playoff games people bitched because we didn't win Super Bowls. People B word PTR Trust me, fans of a team which hasn't been in the playoffs for a decade and still counting will be ecstatic if it gets in, even if it is by being a wildcard team. I will repeat what I said before: I defy you to find ANY NFL analyst who believes the Bills are a viable playoff contender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilsner Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 I would take a well coached, solid season where we dont quit, players develop in a positive environment rather than a total disaster and draft picks. I completely agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilsner Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 I'm sure many readers believe my post and other bulky materials should be forceably shoved in my lower aperture. LOL Lol. Well your post made too much level headed sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 Trust me, fans of a team which hasn't been in the playoffs for a decade and still counting will be ecstatic if it gets in, even if it is by being a wildcard team. I will repeat what I said before: I defy you to find ANY NFL analyst who believes the Bills are a viable playoff contender. I'll save this post till the end of the season. When we get bounced out of the road wild card playoff game we'll see how happy people are. Maybe 2 minutes before the "We need a new head coach to go further" posts start. As for NFL analysts, that's because the Bills didn't make the playoffs last year. All they do is predict whatever happened last season. PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 This is the age of the cap, free agency and constant player movements. Teams which are successful know how to draft well, no matter where they are drafting from, and how to value players and contracts. Baltimore, indisputably, drafts better than the Bills and yet they almost always draft after us. Flacco is a franchise qb who was drafted in the lower first round. In fact, the Ravens made a move similar to our Losman move in maneuvering back into the first round in order to get their franchise qb in Flacco. While the Bills drafted Maybin with our high first pick the Ravens drafted OT Ohrer with a lower first round pick. Which team got better value? The Bills have historically been a dismal team not because they haven't bottomed out but because their organization (ownership-front office-coaching staff) have been very lackluster. There is no one magic bullet (player) in getting better. A successfull franchise is not necessarily an organization which is in position to get the one supposedly magical player, it is an organization which knows how to build a good team from top to bottom. Where was Brees drafted? Not the first round. Where was Favre drafted? Not the first round. Where was Brady drafted? Not the first round. Roethlisberger wasn't taken in the top of the draft. How many can't miss prospects were taken high in the first round? The biggest flaw in our organization's standard approach when drafting was focusing on the skill positions at the expense of the OL and DL positions. This clown organization accentuated the skill positions (perimeter players) when they should have priortized the trenches on both sides of the ball. Hopefully, there will be less of that misguided mentality under Nix. The main point I am stressing is that where we draft has little to do with our mediocrity. It is how you draft at the point you are drafting that explains why the Bills have been bad for so long. So much attention is given to a team's first pick when it is just as important, if not moreso, that the quality of your other picks is just as critical in building a quality team. 1) A little early to call Flacco a franchise QB IMO. He has a lot to prove. 2) They blew a first rounder on Boller. 3) For all the success they have had, they have only made on SB because of a lack of being able to find a franchise QB. This league is really simple. You need a franchise QB. If you switched Losman or Edwards for a frachise QB, we aren't looking at a decade without the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 1) A little early to call Flacco a franchise QB IMO. He has a lot to prove. 2) They blew a first rounder on Boller. 3) For all the success they have had, they have only made on SB because of a lack of being able to find a franchise QB. This league is really simple. You need a franchise QB. If you switched Losman or Edwards for a frachise QB, we aren't looking at a decade without the playoffs. The points you make are excellent. Where I disagree with you is that I believe that Flacco is a franchise qb. You are also correct that Boller never developed into a quality qb. In many ways he is similar to Losman in that his tools are excellent but his feel for the game is not adequate. Havng a great arm is one of the least critical attributes needed to be a successful qb as evidenced by JaMarcuss Russell, Losman and Boller. The Bills haven't had an established franchise qb since Jim Kelly. That is going on about 15 yrs or so. Boller didn't work out for the Ravens so they moved on and drafted Flacco, who I believe is good enough to be their starting qb for the next decade. In addition, the Ravens picked up Bulger as their experienced backup. Your point about Boller underlines the point that there are no guarantees of success when drafting a qb. There are those who prefer tanking a season to be in position to get one of the prematurely declared can't miss prospects. I'm not one of them. As you smartly stated it is important to get a franchise qb in order to be successful. Getting one is not easy. If you look at the Baltimore's roster you will notice they have a superb defense and a quality OL which keeps them competitive. As I stated in a prior posting upgrading the roster in general is what allows teams to be consistently competitive for the long haul, even in a system designed for a lot of player movement. Drafting is a very challenging endeavor. No GM is going to get all his picks, including high picks, right. The Bills have been very poor in not only their draft selections but in their philosophy of drafting compared to the Ravens' GM, Newsome, who is one of the better drafters in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 I'll save this post till the end of the season. When we get bounced out of the road wild card playoff game we'll see how happy people are. Maybe 2 minutes before the "We need a new head coach to go further" posts start. You will never satisfy everyone. That is an impossibility. If the Bills get a wildcard playoff spot, win or lose a playoff game, I will be ecstatic. As for NFL analysts, that's because the Bills didn't make the playoffs last year. All they do is predict whatever happened last season. PTR The Bills didn't make the playoffs last year. The Bills didn't make the playoffs the year prior. The Bills didn't make the playoffs the year prior. The Bills didn't make the playoffs the year prior. The Bills didn't make the playoffs the year prior. The Bills didn't make the playoffs the year prior . The Bills didn't make the playoffs the year prior. The Bills didn't make the playoffs the year prior. The Bills didn't make the playoffs the year prior The Bills didn't make the playoffs the year prior. My recommendation to you is if you are a betting person and the NFL analysts are not predicting a playoff spot for the Bills this season (and in unison they are not), play the odds and go with their judgment. You might not win a lot with those stacked odds but at least you won't lose your pocket change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 You will never satisfy everyone. That is an impossibility. If the Bills get a wildcard playoff spot, win or lose a playoff game, I will be ecstatic. The Bills didn't make the playoffs last year. The Bills didn't make the playoffs the year prior. The Bills didn't make the playoffs the year prior. The Bills didn't make the playoffs the year prior. The Bills didn't make the playoffs the year prior. The Bills didn't make the playoffs the year prior . The Bills didn't make the playoffs the year prior. The Bills didn't make the playoffs the year prior. The Bills didn't make the playoffs the year prior The Bills didn't make the playoffs the year prior. My recommendation to you is if you are a betting person and the NFL analysts are not predicting a playoff spot for the Bills this season (and in unison they are not), play the odds and go with their judgment. You might not win a lot with those stacked odds but at least you won't lose your pocket change. All I'm doing is pointing out that experts don't predict anything. There's a reason every year there are one or two teams that "come out of nowhere." PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 Mike & Mike's 2009 playoff predictions: AFC: Steelers, Ravens, Patriots*, Titans, Colts, Chargers NFC: Eagles, Vikings, Falcons, Cards, Panthers, Giants Actual playoff teams from2008: AFC: Steelers, Ravens, Dolphins, Titans, Colts, Chargers NFC: Eagles, Vikings, Falcons, Cards, Panthers, Giants Way to go out on a limb, boys. Way to nail the Steelers and Panthers! At least you had the 'nads to pick the Patriots instead of the Fins. PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albany,n.y. Posted July 7, 2010 Share Posted July 7, 2010 You act as if drafting a highly rated college qb is a guarantee for actually getting an impact NFL franchise qb. The record demonstrably shows that getting a highly rated qb doesn't necessarily translate into the miracle player you so much covet. David Carr was rated as a top franchise qb. He hasn't fulfilled that lofty expectation. Eric Couch was another player who was drafted very high in the first round and didn't come close to being what was hoped for. Are you aware that Brohm was considered a high number one draft pick when he was a junior? Are you aware that Snead from Ole Miss was also considered a high first round draft pick in his junior year? I'm not sure he was even drafted. The qbs you now covet in college can flame out before they even get drafted. The way to increase the odds of drafting a qb and having him succeed is to put that prospective qb in a position to succeed. Simply put, if you have a quality OL in place prior to the qb's arrival the better chance that qb has to be a success. The excessive attention to the qb issue is a smokescreen to the reality of the Bills' situation. While everyone gets emotional about who our qb should be what is not addressed is the bigger issue: The roster is relatively hollow. How many playmakers do we really have on offense and defense? How good are the OL and DL? The argument that the team needs to flame out in order to get a viable franchise qb is ludicrous. The best way to have sustained success is to increase the talent base for the whole roster. The Bills have a long way to go to before they have a viable chance to be competitive and be be taken seriously. Squandering draft picks and making foolish personnel decisions have set this franchise back for years. Now this team is trying to catch up to the point that it can be an average team. Did you know that 12 of the 44 Super Bowls winners have been quarterbacked by a player selected with the 1st pick in the entire draft? Considering the natural odds of one draft spot producing the winning QB over 27% of the time in Super Bowls, flaming out in the right year can be quite lucrative. In the right year 2-14 is infinitely better than 5-11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 7, 2010 Share Posted July 7, 2010 All I'm doing is pointing out that experts don't predict anything. There's a reason every year there are one or two teams that "come out of nowhere." PTR And the Bills won't be one. Why? 1) No QB. Really? Trent? Brohm? Fitz? 2) No improvement to arguably the WORST starting OL in all of football. Last year, they try to fix it. This year, they did nothing. 3) New Coach. 4) New schemes. 5) Toughest division in football. Need I go on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted July 7, 2010 Share Posted July 7, 2010 And the Bills won't be one. Why? 1) No QB. Really? Trent? Brohm? Fitz? 2) No improvement to arguably the WORST starting OL in all of football. Last year, they try to fix it. This year, they did nothing. 3) New Coach. 4) New schemes. 5) Toughest division in football. Need I go on? Yet, they won 6 games and were a fumble away from splitting with the "toughest division" in football. The oline is a year older, but I forgot that everyone can improve but the Bills. The coach has a demonstrated record of getting the most out of his QBs. We have a great secondary that is not effect by changes up front. And we had one of the worst run defenses ever. How is switching defenses and upgradign the size on front going to make us worse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canbuffan34 Posted July 7, 2010 Share Posted July 7, 2010 The problem with the Bills is that we are never bad enough to get good. 6-10 to 8-8 keeps us picking in the middle of the first. I either want us to win 12 games this year or win 2. If we play ourself out of getting Mallet, Locker, or Luck because Gailey manages to win 7 games the vicious cycle will continue and we will never get any better. If he strikes gold and finds a way to win 12....fine. If we can't do that then here is to 2-14 and a brighter future. Dear God No! Please not another "winning hurts the franchise" comment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted July 8, 2010 Share Posted July 8, 2010 Dear God No! Please not another "winning hurts the franchise" comment Some fans want the Bills to have a new motto: Strive to lose. Lose to win. This sad sack organization is doing everything they can to meet their fans' demands. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted July 8, 2010 Share Posted July 8, 2010 So if the Bills are 9-6 and playing for a playoff spot in Week 17, you'd say "Screw this, the season's a waste, let's just lose and draft in the top 20?" According to this guy's post, the Bills could be 11-4 going into the final week, rest their starters because they've already locked up a playoff seed, lose, go 11-5 and the season would be an utter failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted July 8, 2010 Share Posted July 8, 2010 All I'm doing is pointing out that experts don't predict anything. There's a reason every year there are one or two teams that "come out of nowhere." PTR I can't recall in recent memory (decade) the Bills "coming out of nowhere" to beat the expectations of the so-called experts. I'm not trying to be a negative nanney here. Knowing what you are and where you are at as a franchise is the first step in getting better. The Bills have a long way to go to get to the stage of being a playoff contender. If an organization is committed and knows what it is doing it can be done in three years or so. Those blindly loyal fans who truly believe that we are at the doorstep of being contenders are very badly mistaken. The shame of our situation is that after the Donahoe fiasco the owner panicked. If after letting Donahoe go the goofball owner would have taken the time to get an accomplished GM instead of hiring the ill-equipped Levy the Bills would have been past the first stage of the rebuilding process and in the serious contending stage of the process. Needless to say bad decisions lead to bad results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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