Buddy stated that he wanted a scatback...

[San Jose Bills Fan]

I know it seems that I'm casting aspersions on the CJ Spiller pick seeing as I've made two posts about him in one day. In truth, I had to wait till well after the draft to really incubate some thoughts. I consider myself neither an optimist nor a pessimist when analyzing the Bills.

 

Besides the 15-18 touches per game issue, here's the other issue regarding the drafting of CJ Spiller at #9 (and surprisingly to me, no one here or in the media has brought up this issue, which I think is very real).

 

There were at least two other "scatbacks" that the Bills could have taken later in the draft…although one might have required a trade down in the first round.

 

Specifically, Jahvid Best (5'9" 195 lbs) is a player VERY close to Spiller (5'11" 195 lbs) in terms of talent, style, and impact. He ended up going to Detroit with the 30th pick overall after the Lions traded up four spots to select him. Another highly regarded scatback in this draft was Dexter McCluster (5'9" 172 lbs) who went 36th overall to the Chiefs.

 

In actuality, one can make the argument that Best is a better player than Spiller.

 

For starters, several player rankings had Best ranked higher than Spiller.

 

Best also had the fastest 40-time of all running backs at the NFL Combine.

 

Playing 3 years for Cal in the Pac Ten, Best totaled 3635 yards, averaging 7.3 yards per rush, 8.6 yards per reception, and 25.6 yards per kick return.

 

Playing 4 years for Clemson in the ACC, Spiller totaled 7588 yards, averaging 5.9 yards per rush, 11.5 yards per reception, and 27.7 yards per kick return.

 

I'm not saying that Best is better than Spiller. Spiller was certainly more of a workhorse for Clemson (but does that not also mean that he has higher mileage?) and had very few injuries while Best was nagged by injuries during his college career. I'm merely pointing out that the player who many thought was the most explosive player in college football, Jahvid Best, is nearly as good as Spiller and went 21 picks later. I would also argue that if a player is going to get limited touches, it matters less how much of a load he can carry.

 

As for Dexter McCluster, he played 4 years for Ole Miss in the SEC, totaling 4089 yards, averaging 6.4 yards per rush, 13.1 yards per reception, and 19.7 yards per kick return.

 

Again, Spiller might be the best of this group.

 

But in all the oversimplified criticism of Spiller being a "luxury pick," everyone who makes that argument points to the usual crap about building through the trenches, already being strong at running back, passing up needs at OT and QB, etc.

 

But one of the main things that makes CJ Spiller a luxury pick, if indeed he is one, is that there were similar players that the Bills could have possibly traded down to get later…picking up extra picks along the way.

 

As a corollary to that point, the ONLY criticism I have of the Bills draft is Buddy Nix's quick, decisive, selection of CJ Spiller. He was admittedly dismissive of the idea of trading down but he may have been too hasty.The Bills made their pick very quickly (I can't recall exactly how quickly). Who's to say that a team might not have come calling with a trade offer if Nix had simply waited to use his complete allotted ten minutes. Who knows how many picks the Bills could have stockpiled had they simply listened to offers. It's within the realm of possibility that they could have come out of the draft with more players who they liked, AND gotten the coveted scatback.

[apuszczalowski]

WHY DOESN'T ANYONE UNDERSTAND, THE FRONT OFFICE GOT EXACTLY WHO THEY WANTED!

 

The reason why they didn't wait on Spiller and try to pick up a Scat Back later in the draft is because THEY WANTED SPILLER and not someone else. They felt from their interviews and evaluations that they wanted Spiller

 

Theres nothing you can do about it but whine and cry, and apply for the GM job when it becomes available

[San Jose Bills Fan]

WHY DOESN'T ANYONE UNDERSTAND, THE FRONT OFFICE GOT EXACTLY WHO THEY WANTED!

 

The reason why they didn't wait on Spiller and try to pick up a Scat Back later in the draft is because THEY WANTED SPILLER and not someone else. They felt from their interviews and evaluations that they wanted Spiller

 

Theres nothing you can do about it but whine and cry, and apply for the GM job when it becomes available

It was pretty clear that I wasn't whining and crying. But it sure seems like you are.

 

I thought I was pretty methodical and constructive. And unemotional. It was a criticism devoid of passion. Just bringing up valid points.

[DanInUticaTampa]

WHY DOESN'T ANYONE UNDERSTAND, THE FRONT OFFICE GOT EXACTLY WHO THEY WANTED!

 

He wasn't asking why they drafted spillar. He was just questioning if it was the best decision or not. And he raised points that weren't brought up before.

 

So, duh, the bills got who they wanted, but that doesn't mean it was the best decision.

 

And this poster was just making conversation.

 

WHY DONT YOU UNDERSTAND?

[Bill from NYC]

Your question is sound and well thought, but it is a FOOTBALL question. If the Bills would have went a differennt direction in round one and waited until later to draft a gimmick player, ask yourself how many less jerseys and tickets would have been sold.

First round picks draw all the attention. There are still posters who think that Whitner is a top flight safety, simply because he was drafted at #8. Many posters think that Losman doesn't suck because he was a first round pick.

Ralph Wilson is selling a product, and he knows exactly how to do so. He knows how to price tickets, which players to cut, and who to draft in terms of making a profit, NOT in terms of winning football games.

That said, (and this is pure speculation) I think that Ralph trusted Levy, thinking that he had a clue. Levy was poison. He hired Jauron, and botched the 06 draft in a way that was unimaginable. Levy and Jauron were an inept duo that would not have been hired in their capacities by any other team, and they went on to destroy the Buffalo Bills.

Nix/Gailey are far more competent than those losers as is indicated by the rest of the draft, but imo it is naive for a Bills fan to not assume that this pick was the work of Mr. Wilson, with the motivation being to fatten his wallet taking priority over winning football games.

[WotAGuy]

He wasn't asking why they drafted spillar. He was just questioning if it was the best decision or not. And he raised points that weren't brought up before.

 

So, duh, the bills got who they wanted, but that doesn't mean it was the best decision.

 

And this poster was just making conversation.

 

WHY DONT YOU UNDERSTAND?

 

 

Apparently, from his avatar, because he rides the short bus.

[bkc]

it seems clear that after the two left tackles were off the board spiller offered them the best value .

I see your points about taking a "scat back" later but then we fall into the habit of reaching in the first round again .

[Numark]

Best isn't going to last long as he can't stay on the field.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

it seems clear that after the two left tackles were off the board spiller offered them the best value .

I see your points about taking a "scat back" later but then we fall into the habit of reaching in the first round again .

Yeah, but I'm really talking about trading out of the pick entirely.

 

If you only have one player of good value when you pick, why not listen to trade offers and trade back to where hopefully there will be several picks representing good value, one of them possibly being a scatback?

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Best isn't going to last long as he can't stay on the field.

This may or may not be true, but the counter arguments are in my original post.

 

1) Best has a lot less touches than Spiller which could manifest itself into him having lower mileage and more gas in the tank.

2) If we're talking about a situational player (as opposed to a workhorse), who's to say that Best won't hold up to 15-18 touches per game? He was taken in the first round.

[b stein 22]

Your question is sound and well thought, but it is a FOOTBALL question. If the Bills would have went a differennt direction in round one and waited until later to draft a gimmick player, ask yourself how many less jerseys and tickets would have been sold.

First round picks draw all the attention. There are still posters who think that Whitner is a top flight safety, simply because he was drafted at #8. Many posters think that Losman doesn't suck because he was a first round pick.

Ralph Wilson is selling a product, and he knows exactly how to do so. He knows how to price tickets, which players to cut, and who to draft in terms of making a profit, NOT in terms of winning football games.

That said, (and this is pure speculation) I think that Ralph trusted Levy, thinking that he had a clue. Levy was poison. He hired Jauron, and botched the 06 draft in a way that was unimaginable. Levy and Jauron were an inept duo that would not have been hired in their capacities by any other team, and they went on to destroy the Buffalo Bills.

Nix/Gailey are far more competent than those losers as is indicated by the rest of the draft, but imo it is naive for a Bills fan to not assume that this pick was the work of Mr. Wilson, with the motivation being to fatten his wallet taking priority over winning football games.

Ralph is like 96 years old and hes likley going to sell the team after he dies giving his family hundreds of millions of dollars. Why would he care about jersey sales that will not even make him that much money. And about Levy and Jouron. Ralph trusted Marv from the superbowl years and he thought that he could have changed the team around. To bad it was really Bill Polian who made Marv look good. When Marv was hired as GM he miserably failed and set this team back years making Ralph look bad. I think after the Browns game Ralph was embarresed and he decided he wanted to have a team he could be proud of instead of being laughed at. Thats why he firedall the coaches and started a new. Its not because he is money hungry its because he trusted a fake.

[Cynical]

Yeah, but I'm really talking about trading out of the pick entirely.

 

If you only have one player of good value when you pick, why not listen to trade offers and trade back to where hopefully there will be several picks representing good value, one of them possibly being a scatback?

 

The problem with your argument is you assume the FO thinks the same way you do.

 

For this draft, the Bills were only interested in one QB and 2 LT.

And if they couldn't get one of those guys, they were not picking somebody else just for the sake of picking the position.

 

Now, in relation to your scat back situation, it's in the realm of possibility that Nix/Gailey did not think the other two scat backs were worthy of being picked in the first round.

Of course, the other concept in play is: why keep settling for second or third best players to fill a position, it's time we start looking for and acquiring the best players to fill a position.

[RealityCheck]

I know it seems that I'm casting aspersions on the CJ Spiller pick seeing as I've made two posts about him in one day. In truth, I had to wait till well after the draft to really incubate some thoughts. I consider myself neither an optimist nor a pessimist when analyzing the Bills.

 

Besides the 15-18 touches per game issue, here's the other issue regarding the drafting of CJ Spiller at #9 (and surprisingly to me, no one here or in the media has brought up this issue, which I think is very real).

 

There were at least two other "scatbacks" that the Bills could have taken later in the draft…although one might have required a trade down in the first round.

 

Specifically, Jahvid Best (5'9" 195 lbs) is a player VERY close to Spiller (5'11" 195 lbs) in terms of talent, style, and impact. He ended up going to Detroit with the 30th pick overall after the Lions traded up four spots to select him. Another highly regarded scatback in this draft was Dexter McCluster (5'9" 172 lbs) who went 36th overall to the Chiefs.

 

In actuality, one can make the argument that Best is a better player than Spiller.

 

For starters, several player rankings had Best ranked higher than Spiller.

 

Best also had the fastest 40-time of all running backs at the NFL Combine.

 

Playing 3 years for Cal in the Pac Ten, Best totaled 3635 yards, averaging 7.3 yards per rush, 8.6 yards per reception, and 25.6 yards per kick return.

 

Playing 4 years for Clemson in the ACC, Spiller totaled 7588 yards, averaging 5.9 yards per rush, 11.5 yards per reception, and 27.7 yards per kick return.

 

I'm not saying that Best is better than Spiller. Spiller was certainly more of a workhorse for Clemson (but does that not also mean that he has higher mileage?) and had very few injuries while Best was nagged by injuries during his college career. I'm merely pointing out that the player who many thought was the most explosive player in college football, Jahvid Best, is nearly as good as Spiller and went 21 picks later. I would also argue that if a player is going to get limited touches, it matters less how much of a load he can carry.

 

As for Dexter McCluster, he played 4 years for Ole Miss in the SEC, totaling 4089 yards, averaging 6.4 yards per rush, 13.1 yards per reception, and 19.7 yards per kick return.

 

Again, Spiller might be the best of this group.

 

But in all the oversimplified criticism of Spiller being a "luxury pick," everyone who makes that argument points to the usual crap about building through the trenches, already being strong at running back, passing up needs at OT and QB, etc.

 

But one of the main things that makes CJ Spiller a luxury pick, if indeed he is one, is that there were similar players that the Bills could have possibly traded down to get later…picking up extra picks along the way.

 

As a corollary to that point, the ONLY criticism I have of the Bills draft is Buddy Nix's quick, decisive, selection of CJ Spiller. He was admittedly dismissive of the idea of trading down but he may have been too hasty.The Bills made their pick very quickly (I can't recall exactly how quickly). Who's to say that a team might not have come calling with a trade offer if Nix had simply waited to use his complete allotted ten minutes. Who knows how many picks the Bills could have stockpiled had they simply listened to offers. It's within the realm of possibility that they could have come out of the draft with more players who they liked, AND gotten the coveted scatback.

I read all of that just for your realm of possibility. I have only myself to blame.

[SDS]

Your question is sound and well thought, but it is a FOOTBALL question. If the Bills would have went a differennt direction in round one and waited until later to draft a gimmick player, ask yourself how many less jerseys and tickets would have been sold.

 

Yawn...

 

League merchandise is split evenly and has been forever. A jersey sold benefits Dan Snyder as much as it does Ralph Wilson. Unfortunately that doesn't fit into your rant.

[SDS]

Besides the 15-18 touches per game issue, here's the other issue regarding the drafting of CJ Spiller at #9 (and surprisingly to me, no one here or in the media has brought up this issue, which I think is very real).

 

300 touches per year is a pretty healthy load. I think you are underestimating that.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

The problem with your argument is you assume the FO thinks the same way you do.

 

For this draft, the Bills were only interested in one QB and 2 LT.

And if they couldn't get one of those guys, they were not picking somebody else just for the sake of picking the position.

 

Now, in relation to your scat back situation, it's in the realm of possibility that Nix/Gailey did not think the other two scat backs were worthy of being picked in the first round.

Of course, the other concept in play is: why keep settling for second or third best players to fill a position, it's time we start looking for and acquiring the best players to fill a position.

Thanks for a thoughtful response, Cynical.

 

However, I don't assume the FO thinks like I do. I am making a legitimate criticism based on how I think.

 

Secondly I know they only liked Bradford, Williams, and Okung.

 

As to your "best player at his position argument," the Bills could have traded down (Nix admits there was interest in the Bills pick) and selected Dan Williams. He was the (consensus, I don't know about Nix) best nose tackle in the draft. They could have traded down and gotten any number of guys who were the best player at their position. Part of the point of my post is that is it really beyond argument that Spiller was the best running back?

 

And how about what I said in my original post…what did Nix have to lose by waiting the full ten minutes before picking Spiller? He had nothing to lose.

 

What if a team was formulating an offer and Nix preempted it by being too hasty?

 

If I boiled down my whole scatback post to a few thoughts, it would be that the Bills in the first round were too close-minded to a bunch of other possibilities.

 

Also, that they might have been able to get a fairly equivalent player to Spiller later on as a result of being more open-minded. Nix helped draft Darren Sproles. Sproles was a 4th round pick.

 

Hopefully Spiller proves conclusively that he's a much better player than Best and McCluster. We'll see.

[T master]

You make a good point in the fact that even though Nix knew who he wanted he could have used more of his alotted time , that being said with the amount of injuries the Bills had last year why would they have even considered a back a bit smaller with a much bigger injury history ? Wouldn't you go for the guy that is more durable just what Nix did . I love the pick i think Spiller is not only going to bring fans to the stadium the way T.O. did but just the thought of the excitement of the possibilities of what he does on the field on game day ---- i can't wait !!!! GO BILLS !!!!!

[uforesircher]

QUOTE (apuszczalowski @ May 13 2010, 08:47 PM)

WHY DOESN'T ANYONE UNDERSTAND, THE FRONT OFFICE GOT EXACTLY WHO THEY WANTED!

 

(1) He wasn't asking why they drafted spillar. He was just questioning if it was the best decision or not. And he raised points that weren't brought up before.

 

(2) So, duh, the bills got who they wanted, but that doesn't mean it was the best decision.

 

(3) And this poster was just making conversation.

 

(4) WHY DONT YOU UNDERSTAND?

 

1. actually he doesn't like the spillar pick - he has made that clear - really. and yes all of the "points" he made have been made over and over and over and over . . ad nauseam. just get over it already.

 

2. well, duh, yes it does mean it was the best decision - why? because they made it. and it will take a year or two to see if it was the correct long-term decision. but at that time is was the best decision - period.

 

3. no not really, that poster was still frothing at the mouth about the spiller pick - at best it is re-hashed stale poor conversation - at worst it was just more negativity over that particular pick.

 

4. now, why don't YOU understand?

[MississippiBob]

The reason why they didn't wait on Spiller and try to pick up a Scat Back later in the draft is because THEY WANTED SPILLER and not someone else. They felt from their interviews and evaluations that they wanted Spiller

 

"Theres nothing you can do about it but whine and cry, and apply for the GM job when it becomes available"

 

 

Ditto!!!!

[San Jose Bills Fan]

QUOTE (apuszczalowski @ May 13 2010, 08:47 PM)

WHY DOESN'T ANYONE UNDERSTAND, THE FRONT OFFICE GOT EXACTLY WHO THEY WANTED!

 

 

 

1. actually he doesn't like the spillar pick - he has made that clear - really. and yes all of the "points" he made have been made over and over and over and over . . ad nauseam. just get over it already.

 

2. well, duh, yes it does mean it was the best decision - why? because they made it. and it will take a year or two to see if it was the correct long-term decision. but at that time is was the best decision - period.

 

3. no not really, that poster was still frothing at the mouth about the spiller pick - at best it is re-hashed stale poor conversation - at worst it was just more negativity over that particular pick.

 

4. now, why don't YOU understand?

I'm disappointed in your response, ufore.

 

1) I haven't made it clear I don't like the Spiller pick. I'm on board with the Spiller pick. Review my post history if you don't think so. My post was meant to illustrate that there were other scatbacks available.

 

And this is a point that has absolutely not been mentioned on this wall before. Period.

 

3) Frothing at the mouth? Negativity? Can you pick a quote which shows that I was frothing at the mouth? Negative? Are you familiar with the concept of constructive criticism? Healthy skepticism? Critical thinking? One can think critically without being negative. I was not being negative. I was raising a point which had not been made before.

 

Again stale? No one had criticized the Spiller pick in the context of Jahvid Best and Dexter McCluster. No one.