Bad Year To Need A NT

[OldTimer1960]

This year's DT class is highly regarded, but most of the DTs are 4-3 DTs and few are true NT prospects. Discounting

Suh and McCoy because they won't be available to the Bills, the following are the NT candidates and my opinions

(admittedly based on the reviews I've read from ProFootballWeekly and former NFL scout Russ Lande). I think if the

Bills want one of these guys, they'll have to pick him about a round higher than their talent justifies and they'll

be passing over better players at other positions.

 

1. Dan Williams - split opinions on him. Really didn't impress anyone until his last season so there is reason for

concern there. PFW considers him a top-20 prospect, Lande sees him as a late 2nd-3rd round prospect. Is big and

has power in his lower body, but lacks elite upper body strength and plays high losing leverage to hold the line.

Has some potential, but is probably a stretch in the top 10 - would almost certainly be the lowest "rated" player

taken in the top 10.

 

2. Terrence Cody - Massive very slow run plugger. Has shed an impressive amount of weight to get down under

350lbs, but will he keep it off once he gets paid. Won't be a playmaker due to his lack of speed and quickness,

may be very valuable just taking up OL blocks. May only be able to play a limited number of downs due to lack

of conditioning. Some team may stretch to grab him in the late 1st or early 2nd. Even if he makes it to Buffalo's

pick in the 2nd, I'd consider him a risky pick due to his lack of effort and conditioning concerns.

 

3. Cam Thomas - described as "country strong" has excellent size for a NT. Little production, so is really just a

plugger. Consensus seems to be late 2nd-3rd round for him. 41st is probably a bit high for him, so he'd be a

moderate reach there.

 

4. Linval Joseph - May be the most athletic of the NT candidates and has good size and strength. Played at a mid-tier

level of competition with East Carolina. Reportedly has good upside. 3rdish round projection.

 

5. Torrell Troup - Big guy, but limited athlete. A possible 3rd-4th round pick.

 

6. Al Woods - LSU, big and strong, but didn't play much prior to his Sr year (why?). Has the size and strength to

be good, but why did he only start 1 year in college? Probably picked in the 2nd-3rd round.

[Celtic_soulja]

Dude what are you smoking?...one McCoy isn't a NT...two this is the deepest D Line draft in HISTORY...

[balln]

This year's DT class is highly regarded, but most of the DTs are 4-3 DTs and few are true NT prospects. Discounting

Suh and McCoy because they won't be available to the Bills, the following are the NT candidates and my opinions

(admittedly based on the reviews I've read from ProFootballWeekly and former NFL scout Russ Lande). I think if the

Bills want one of these guys, they'll have to pick him about a round higher than their talent justifies and they'll

be passing over better players at other positions.

 

1. Dan Williams - split opinions on him. Really didn't impress anyone until his last season so there is reason for

concern there. PFW considers him a top-20 prospect, Lande sees him as a late 2nd-3rd round prospect. Is big and

has power in his lower body, but lacks elite upper body strength and plays high losing leverage to hold the line.

Has some potential, but is probably a stretch in the top 10 - would almost certainly be the lowest "rated" player

taken in the top 10.

 

2. Terrence Cody - Massive very slow run plugger. Has shed an impressive amount of weight to get down under

350lbs, but will he keep it off once he gets paid. Won't be a playmaker due to his lack of speed and quickness,

may be very valuable just taking up OL blocks. May only be able to play a limited number of downs due to lack

of conditioning. Some team may stretch to grab him in the late 1st or early 2nd. Even if he makes it to Buffalo's

pick in the 2nd, I'd consider him a risky pick due to his lack of effort and conditioning concerns.

 

3. Cam Thomas - described as "country strong" has excellent size for a NT. Little production, so is really just a

plugger. Consensus seems to be late 2nd-3rd round for him. 41st is probably a bit high for him, so he'd be a

moderate reach there.

 

4. Linval Joseph - May be the most athletic of the NT candidates and has good size and strength. Played at a mid-tier

level of competition with East Carolina. Reportedly has good upside. 3rdish round projection.

 

5. Torrell Troup - Big guy, but limited athlete. A possible 3rd-4th round pick.

 

6. Al Woods - LSU, big and strong, but didn't play much prior to his Sr year (why?). Has the size and strength to

be good, but why did he only start 1 year in college? Probably picked in the 2nd-3rd round.

 

Agree with previous post. And Russ Lande ? You mean the guy who think Crompton QB from Tenn is the 2nd best QB in the draft? And Lande thinks Crompton will be a great starting QB?

 

Crompton is sooo bad it is not even funny. It is like hearing Tate Forcier QB from Michigan (5'11" 175) is going to be a star in the NFL. Please.

 

Asked why Lande thinks so highly of Crompton his main reasoning was that he improved. OK so if you improved from 1/10 to a 3/10 you still suck even though you improved. Why would I take a 3/10 prospect over a 9/10 prospect? Stupid over-thinking logic

[Rockinon]

I agree that a prototypical 3-4 Nose tackle is not going to be easy to find. I have a hunch that Kyle is going to be the starter regardless and it's not like we don't have plenty of other holes to fill anyway. Just looks like we will address other needs because that is where we will find the greatest talent.

[BB-Gun]

How many great nose tackles were in the draft last year? Year before that?

Please show proof, other than regurgitating someone else's opinion.

[OldTimer1960]

How many great nose tackles were in the draft last year? Year before that?

Please show proof, other than regurgitating someone else's opinion.

 

I am not sure that there were more, less or the same number of good NT candidates

in last year's draft. I am not sure it is that relevant, either. My point is that

finding a NT is going to be difficult and they'll have to over-draft one because

so many teams now play 3-4 and quite a few could use a NT.

[OldTimer1960]

Dude what are you smoking?...one McCoy isn't a NT...two this is the deepest D Line draft in HISTORY...

 

1. I know that Gerald McCoy is probably not an NFL NT, but thanks for clarifying that in a sarcastic way.

 

2. Just because the draft is deep in DL doesn't mean that it has a lot of NT candidates. Many (most) of the

top DT prospects are much more suited to the 4-3 or possibly to 3-4 DE than they are to NT.

[OldTimer1960]

Agree with previous post. And Russ Lande ? You mean the guy who think Crompton QB from Tenn is the 2nd best QB in the draft? And Lande thinks Crompton will be a great starting QB?

 

Crompton is sooo bad it is not even funny. It is like hearing Tate Forcier QB from Michigan (5'11" 175) is going to be a star in the NFL. Please.

 

Asked why Lande thinks so highly of Crompton his main reasoning was that he improved. OK so if you improved from 1/10 to a 3/10 you still suck even though you improved. Why would I take a 3/10 prospect over a 9/10 prospect? Stupid over-thinking logic

 

Yeah, that Russ Lande. I agree that he goes out on a limb sometimes, but at least he has done the studying and

has an opinion rather than regurgitating the same things that everyone else is saying. I am not saying that he is

always right. However, who among the other draft "scouts" has ever worked as an NFL scout?

 

Anyway, doesn't matter what you think of Lande, who else do you see touting the NT class? Who are these supposed

great NT prospects in "the deepest DL draft in years"?

[BillsCelticsAngelsBama]

Yeah, that Russ Lande. I agree that he goes out on a limb sometimes, but at least he has done the studying and

has an opinion rather than regurgitating the same things that everyone else is saying. I am not saying that he is

always right. However, who among the other draft "scouts" has ever worked as an NFL scout?

 

Anyway, doesn't matter what you think of Lande, who else do you see touting the NT class? Who are these supposed

great NT prospects in "the deepest DL draft in years"?

He'll get back to you as soon as he retrieves the USA today draft guide he left in the bathroom.

[MRW]

Thanks for the overview, I don't know why you're getting such flack... not sure if people aren't reading or what? Anyway, I understand there are concerns about Cody's work ethic, but IMO if he's there in the second you have to jump on him. Once you move beyond the first I start feeling a lot more mellow about taking some chances on players, if the talent is there. And it seems like anyone with the kind of size to play as a run-stuffing NT always has questions about conditioning/work ethic/etc., so you pretty much have to accept it if you want that type of player.

[SawchukBills]

This year's DT class is highly regarded, but most of the DTs are 4-3 DTs and few are true NT prospects. Discounting

Suh and McCoy because they won't be available to the Bills, the following are the NT candidates and my opinions

(admittedly based on the reviews I've read from ProFootballWeekly and former NFL scout Russ Lande). I think if the

Bills want one of these guys, they'll have to pick him about a round higher than their talent justifies and they'll

be passing over better players at other positions.

 

1. Dan Williams - split opinions on him. Really didn't impress anyone until his last season so there is reason for

concern there. PFW considers him a top-20 prospect, Lande sees him as a late 2nd-3rd round prospect. Is big and

has power in his lower body, but lacks elite upper body strength and plays high losing leverage to hold the line.

Has some potential, but is probably a stretch in the top 10 - would almost certainly be the lowest "rated" player

taken in the top 10.

 

2. Terrence Cody - Massive very slow run plugger. Has shed an impressive amount of weight to get down under

350lbs, but will he keep it off once he gets paid. Won't be a playmaker due to his lack of speed and quickness,

may be very valuable just taking up OL blocks. May only be able to play a limited number of downs due to lack

of conditioning. Some team may stretch to grab him in the late 1st or early 2nd. Even if he makes it to Buffalo's

pick in the 2nd, I'd consider him a risky pick due to his lack of effort and conditioning concerns.

 

3. Cam Thomas - described as "country strong" has excellent size for a NT. Little production, so is really just a

plugger. Consensus seems to be late 2nd-3rd round for him. 41st is probably a bit high for him, so he'd be a

moderate reach there.

 

4. Linval Joseph - May be the most athletic of the NT candidates and has good size and strength. Played at a mid-tier

level of competition with East Carolina. Reportedly has good upside. 3rdish round projection.

 

5. Torrell Troup - Big guy, but limited athlete. A possible 3rd-4th round pick.

 

6. Al Woods - LSU, big and strong, but didn't play much prior to his Sr year (why?). Has the size and strength to

be good, but why did he only start 1 year in college? Probably picked in the 2nd-3rd round.

[bills_red]

This is a good 34 NT class. Linval Joseph is a 34 DE imo

[Wagon Circler]

Based on what I've read, I would be happy with Cam Thomas in the second round. Just my opinion.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Dude what are you smoking?...one McCoy isn't a NT...two this is the deepest D Line draft in HISTORY...

"Dude, what are you smoking?"

 

Calm down little feller. You and Darth Ice have the temperament of little Walt Coleman. Try taking a few deep breaths before you penalize someone in knee jerk fashion (in this case, OldTimer1960). Reading your recent deluge of posts, it seems like you're going too fast, losing control, and getting a bit too full of yourself.

 

As to your point, "deepest D Line draft in history," what makes you say that? Even if it is an "excellent" D Line draft, 3-4 nose tackles are very hard to find. As we all know, the top two tackles are not nose tackle types, and many college nose tackles are being projected as 3-4 ends.

 

How many great nose tackles were in the draft last year? Year before that?

Please show proof, other than regurgitating someone else's opinion.

Now BB-Gun is piling onto OldTimer but actually his point is more a refutation of Celtic's view. He asks, "How many great nose tackles were in the draft last year?" The answer is not many. In fact, you could name the top quality NFL nose tackles on one hand, probably. When I guy like Ron Brace is coveted, as he was in last year's draft, it shows how thin the position is.

 

I would say two things to OldTimer's post:

 

1) Every year is a bad year to be drafting a nose tackle. BJ Raji was last year's big prize and even he was playing more defensive end than nose tackle last year. Ron Brace was the "first runner-up" and he didn't get many snaps as a rookie. Probably a few mid to late nose tackles (or even undrafted ones a la Pat Williams) will mature into excellent players. They are hard to find, and there's never enough to go around. That's one reason myself and others would rather draft an elite pass rusher than a flawed nose tackle.

 

2) I'm never bothered by the criticism (as in T Cody) that "he may play limited snaps." NFL offenses are in multiple wideout formations more than half the time now. Passing outweighs rushing by about 60% to 40%. Most nose tackles do not play as many snaps as defensive ends anyways. So it matters little if at all how many snaps your nose tackle plays. As long as he's in good enough condition to play well in all the running downs.

 

Back to the top of my post, sorry to criticize others, but I do it in defense of OldTimer, and also because I really get annoyed by guys who are rude and act like know-it-all jerks.

[Thurman#1]

I am not sure that there were more, less or the same number of good NT candidates

in last year's draft. I am not sure it is that relevant, either. My point is that

finding a NT is going to be difficult and they'll have to over-draft one because

so many teams now play 3-4 and quite a few could use a NT.

 

 

 

Your M.O. is that you indeed picked out the 5 or 6 guys who will be 3 - 4 NT candidates, and then you dumped on them. They aren't as bad as you seem to think. The overall opinions on them are higher than you seem to think.

 

I agree that Cody is a risky pick because of conditioning worries. But you are looking at these NT guys and downgrading them because they aren't all that athletic. Thing is, nobody expects nose tackles to be very athletic. The whole point about them is that they are absolutely mammoth guys who will be facing double-teams on most running plays. They don't need to be athletic. They need to take up blockers and not give way, maybe - maybe - move a step or two in the direction of the play.

 

And as far as this year being a bad year for NTs, there's no such thing as a good year. These guys are spectacularly rare, there just aren't that many guys out there that size with that kind of strength. Outside of Raji last year, there weren't many prospects. That's just the way it is with these guys.

[Green Lightning]

1. I know that Gerald McCoy is probably not an NFL NT, but thanks for clarifying that in a sarcastic way.

 

2. Just because the draft is deep in DL doesn't mean that it has a lot of NT candidates. Many (most) of the

top DT prospects are much more suited to the 4-3 or possibly to 3-4 DE than they are to NT.

 

 

This is the best draft for a NT in recent years! We need a two down run stuffer then bring in Kyle on third down.

[EastRochBillsfan]

"Dude, what are you smoking?"

 

Calm down little feller. You and Darth Ice have the temperament of little Walt Coleman. Try taking a few deep breaths before you penalize someone in knee jerk fashion (in this case, OldTimer1960). Reading your recent deluge of posts, it seems like you're going too fast, losing control, and getting a bit too full of yourself.

 

As to your point, "deepest D Line draft in history," what makes you say that? Even if it is an "excellent" D Line draft, 3-4 nose tackles are very hard to find. As we all know, the top two tackles are not nose tackle types, and many college nose tackles are being projected as 3-4 ends.

 

 

Back to the top of my post, sorry to criticize others, but I do it in defense of OldTimer, and also because I really get annoyed by guys who are rude and act like know-it-all jerks.

 

 

Thank you for saying how I feel(though I'm not sure who walt coleman is). A select few on tsw are pretty much always rude and seem to always attack and I get rather annoyed by it myself. I have been reading here everyday for about 2 yrs and been a member for a year but havent posted but i decided I can't hold it in anymore. so you all will be seeing more of me now.

[PeteBills4ever]

Thank you for saying how I feel(though I'm not sure who walt coleman is). A select few on tsw are pretty much always rude and seem to always attack and I get rather annoyed by it myself. I have been reading here everyday for about 2 yrs and been a member for a year but havent posted but i decided I can't hold it in anymore. so you all will be seeing more of me now.

 

Same here, I read every day, there's some people on this board that are just waiting to read something they don't agree with and post right away stuff like: you idiot, what have you been somking, you don't know schitt, etc... instead of posting why they don't agree and state their arguments why not, like it should be on any forum, no need to go ape schitt and start name calling like teenagers in highschool

[sllib olaffub]

When you're looking for a guy as large as a NT has to be - usually around 325 or more - then almost every time you are going to have a fat guy with concerns about being able to play every down. I'd say to find a sure thing - guaranteed star at nose - you probably are going to find that less than any other position - even QB. But, because the size of these guys is so ridiculous, sometimes the later round picks end up being better than the early ones. So, I say we grab a couple and just keep grabbing them next year and on and on until we find the right ones. We might get it right this year in the 3rd, 4th rounds - we might end up playing a more hybrid 3-4 and use K. Williams as a quick NT, in the mold of Dallas.

It seems to me if you are looking for a huge guy that can move and stay energized all game and can be an every down player at NT, you might be looking for 4 or 5 years before one perfect specimen comes available. I think we'd be better off just getting some talented guys and playing a scheme that works best for what we have.

All that being said - I think we're lucky to have as many quality guys on the D-line draft eligible this year. We could get starting rotational talent in the 3rd and 4th rounds at NT and DE, if we do it right.

[OldTimer1960]

Thanks to the posters that came to my defense. I think the sarcastic posts with little substance have gotten

a bit out of hand, but anyway it's draft time and I love the discussion!

 

I agree with the point that good NTs are very difficult to find and that really this year is not any worse than

other years - it is hard to find them any time.

 

Perhaps the title of the thread should have been something more like, "should Bills reconsider switching

to 3-4". The number of highly regarded 4-3 DTs this year is much greater than NTs and the coaching staff

says that it prides itself on fitting the scheme to personnel rather than vice versa.

 

At any rate, I think they are committed to the move to the 3-4, so I agree with the last poster who suggested

drafting multiple NT candidates in the mid rounds and continue doing so until they find a couple of good ones.

I think that is really a reasonable strategy. I wouldn't be upset if the spent their 3rd and 4th or 3rd and 5th

on a couple of NT prospects. If they take one in round 2, I could see another in the 4th-5th round.