Celtic_soulja Posted April 7, 2010 Share Posted April 7, 2010 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZypDzW81-c...feature=related I cannot believe the same guys that want to trash Trent Edwards want to bring in Campbell...ridiculous.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkc Posted April 7, 2010 Share Posted April 7, 2010 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZypDzW81-c...feature=related I cannot believe the same guys that want to trash Trent Edwards want to bring in Campbell...ridiculous.... 20 t.ds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayFinkle Posted April 7, 2010 Share Posted April 7, 2010 ...over 3600 yds passing in 2009. Must have been some serious run after the catch yards by the rbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 7, 2010 Share Posted April 7, 2010 The Skins had a worse oline ( http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?arc...e&Submit=Go ) and receiving core than us, yet he improved in every category. For a 4th round pick, he would be a good investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cville81 Posted April 7, 2010 Share Posted April 7, 2010 The same highlight clip can be made for every starting QB in the league, the bottom line is the stats: Campbell: 3618yds 20TD 15 INT 86.4 Rating All Bills QB's (we had to use three): 2737yds 15TD 19INT 70.2 Rating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted April 7, 2010 Share Posted April 7, 2010 It is interesting that Casserly said he is more suited for the downfield passing attack...... I am sure Lee Evans ears would pick up upon hearing that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted April 7, 2010 Share Posted April 7, 2010 "Checking down" is not, inherently, a bad thing for an NFL QB. It is knowing when to check down, and when you can take a chance and throw the ball down field. I would be okay with giving Trent Edwards another crack at the starting job, but I do think, at this point in their respective careers, Campbell is a better QB. I would move on him, if the price was right (4th or later, maybe a third, if there were some other aspects to the trade)... The idea of Edwards "breaking out" of his malaise and returning to the promising form he had early on, appeals to me more, than watching Ryan Fitzpatrick for another season. I don't hate Fitzpatrick, and I think he we would be a nice back-up, but I also think he throws some of the worst passes I have ever seen by a starting NFL QB. He has a nice mental grasp of the game, however, which gives him some value. I think Edwards displayed much of that early on, as well, but, as has been well hashed and re-hashed over here the last year, he lost something. I am willing to be that he lost his confidence in himself, as a result of a very inept coaching staff. I wasn't excited about the Chan Gailey hire, but it is growing on me. If he lives up to his reputation as a great coach for quarterbacks, I think Edwards could still turn into a serviceable NFL QB. A lot of "ifs" I know, but, that is mostly what we have to hang our hopes on, as Bills fans...an awful lot of things have to go right, for the Bills to make us smile again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 7, 2010 Share Posted April 7, 2010 "Checking down" is not, inherently, a bad thing for an NFL QB. It is knowing when to check down, and when you can take a chance and throw the ball down field. I would be okay with giving Trent Edwards another crack at the starting job, but I do think, at this point in their respective careers, Campbell is a better QB. I would move on him, if the price was right (4th or later, maybe a third, if there were some other aspects to the trade)... Good post and I agree with it. The problem with Edwards is that it seems that even with time, he will settle on the shorter route. There was a play that really stood out last year when he lost me. It was a rollout and Trent had a TE open at about 5 yards and TO open at 10 yards. He took the shorter route. At some point you have to let it go. Edwards has all the tools (except durability) you want in a QB. I just think his problems are in his head. For all the talk there is about how badly Buffalo has developed QBs, Washington may be worst. Different coaches every year, suspect receivers, and a terrible oline. Yet Campbell has improved every year. That means something to me. I'd rather spend a 4th on Campbell and build the lines than pray all the red flags aren't true about Clausen and draft him #9. The idea of Edwards "breaking out" of his malaise and returning to the promising form he had early on, appeals to me more, than watching Ryan Fitzpatrick for another season. I don't hate Fitzpatrick, and I think he we would be a nice back-up, but I also think he throws some of the worst passes I have ever seen by a starting NFL QB. He has a nice mental grasp of the game, however, which gives him some value. I think Edwards displayed much of that early on, as well, but, as has been well hashed and re-hashed over here the last year, he lost something. I am willing to be that he lost his confidence in himself, as a result of a very inept coaching staff. Fitz is the ideal backup. He can come in and win a game or 2 as a sub. But they pointed out because of his height (6'1"), he can't see over the linemen and has to throw to spots. Thus, you see the erratic throws. Personally, I would think Fitz is safe as a backup. I'd trade for Campbell or draft a new QB, dangle Trent in a trade, or just have Trent and Brohm battle it out for a roster spot. Trent probably could be a great backup QB in the Reich mold but it's probably to hard to go from starter to backup and not show frustration. I wasn't excited about the Chan Gailey hire, but it is growing on me. If he lives up to his reputation as a great coach for quarterbacks, I think Edwards could still turn into a serviceable NFL QB. A lot of "ifs" I know, but, that is mostly what we have to hang our hopes on, as Bills fans...an awful lot of things have to go right, for the Bills to make us smile again. I was thrilled about the Gailey hire but I'm cautiously optimistic. I do believe he wants his own QB, so I don't think Trent will be the starter. Campbell fits the mold of a QB that Gailey would like. Either way, they need to nail this draft because although I'm more optimistic than most, this draft could swing this team one way or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munch Posted April 7, 2010 Share Posted April 7, 2010 While obviously Campbell isnt elite, Campbell>Trent 100% of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FluffHead Posted April 7, 2010 Share Posted April 7, 2010 While obviously Campbell isnt elite, Campbell>Trent 100% of the time. Agreed. I don't think J. Campbell is the savior, but as opposed to the incumbents, a positive is that Campbell has an above average arm to deal with our weather vs. Trent's below average (at best) arm (to complement his wussy mentality). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted April 7, 2010 Share Posted April 7, 2010 Agreed. I don't think J. Campbell is the savior, but as opposed to the incumbents, a positive is that Campbell has an above average arm to deal with our weather vs. Trent's below average (at best) arm (to complement his wussy mentality). Trent's arm strength is fine...not Elway like, but fine. It is the mental thing ("wussy mentality" you call it) that he needs to overcome. I don't think that mentality is necessarily "wussy", but a learned fear of screwing up. Coach Jauron seemed to be very effective at instilling into his players the "don't screw up, and we might win" mentality that he seems to have built his career on, and that is most evident, IMO, with Edwards. I don't think he was the gun-shy QB he has turned into, coming out of college. I may be nuts, but I really thought, early on, he had some of those intangibles that very good QB's possess. But, this entire team (players and coaches) seemed to believe, as was evident from their play, that they couldn't overcome mistakes...once something went wrong, the problems snowballed...Jaurons' teams in Buffalo had way too many "great" losses. If C Biscuit is correct about Gailey wanting his own QB, reviving Edwards career would be a great feat... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celtic_soulja Posted April 7, 2010 Author Share Posted April 7, 2010 The Skins had a worse oline ( http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?arc...e&Submit=Go ) and receiving core than us, yet he improved in every category. For a 4th round pick, he would be a good investment. A worse O Line????????...because what they had a few less rushing yards....or YPC???...well we tied the Saints for YPC...are you saying our O Line was as good as the Saints....matter of fact only about five teams had a better YPC...so do we actually have an upper echelon Offensive Line???????????????????????????????????????? DID YOU WATCH THE BILLS THIS PAST SEASON AT ALL???... Well...thier worst O Lineman was Heyer that gave up 6.5 sacks...our worst...D Bell...gave up 4 in eight games...on pace for 8...or WORST IN THE ENTIRE LEAGUE...and if you watched the games...him in particular...you KNOW that's not unbelievable the guy is a HORRIBLE LT...Thier next worst was a familiar face with Mike Williams playing guard for 8 games and gave up 2.5 sacks...on pace for 5...our next worst was Jonathan Scott...started 8 gave up 3.5 on pace for seven....Chris Samuels was hurt all season, but gave up a couple sacks in his little time he got to play...kind of like our Butler thing...Then they had Raback who gave up 1 sack all year....Dockery who gave up 0.5 sacks all season....we had Wood, 10 games 3 sacks....Levitre ZERO BABY one of the few performers this season...They had Batiste in some little action for injuries gave up 1 sack in 8 games...Rinehart 1 sack in his short season to...we had Hangartner 1.5 sacks...Chambers 2.5 in 8 games on pace for 5....and Meredith ZERO sacks another keeper... So lets spell it out...if you average the sacks per offensive linemen that saw action based upon if every linemen that saw action played all season...you would get Buffalo 4.2 sacks per lineman...Washington 3.7 sacks per lineman...doesn't seem like much, but if you look at elite lines in the league they are around 2.5 sacks per lineman... If you compare probowls...yeah, they destroy us on the O Line... If you compare sack totals...we allowed more... My thought is that an offensive line is only as good as the worst starter...because it only takes one to get beat for your QB to be in a stretcher...our worst was D Bell...worst in the league...can't even line up correctly...sure as HELL can't block...thier worst was Heyer...I watched him...he wasn't very good...but he wasn't a complete disgrace to the Tackle position like D Bell was...the average time Edwards/Fitzy/Brohm had to throw? 2.4 seconds...Campbell?...3.0 seconds...just about average...so lets not pretend we didn't have the most disgusting offensive line in football probably EVER...I wanted to vomit watching these bummy tackles come in and disgrace the Bills uniform...except for Meredith...I beleive under the circumstances he provided very solid blocking...he's going to be something of an anchor at RT for a long time...D Bell and J. Scott were the most horrible linemen I've seen play in a very very long time...Heyer was nowhere NEAR as bad... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted April 7, 2010 Share Posted April 7, 2010 The Skins had a worse oline ( http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?arc...e&Submit=Go ) and receiving core than us, yet he improved in every category. For a 4th round pick, he would be a good investment. Nobody, and I mean nobody, had a worse OL than us. Don't kid yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPS Posted April 7, 2010 Share Posted April 7, 2010 The same highlight clip can be made for every starting QB in the league, the bottom line is the stats: Campbell: 3618yds 20TD 15 INT 86.4 Rating All Bills QB's (we had to use three): 2737yds 15TD 19INT 70.2 Rating 8 AND 8!!!!! I can't believe our QB play was so bad that Jason Campbell looks good. He's not THEE guy!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grelit Posted April 7, 2010 Share Posted April 7, 2010 A worse O Line????????...because what they had a few less rushing yards....or YPC???...well we tied the Saints for YPC...are you saying our O Line was as good as the Saints....matter of fact only about five teams had a better YPC...so do we actually have an upper echelon Offensive Line???????????????????????????????????????? DID YOU WATCH THE BILLS THIS PAST SEASON AT ALL???... Well...thier worst O Lineman was Heyer that gave up 6.5 sacks...our worst...D Bell...gave up 4 in eight games...on pace for 8...or WORST IN THE ENTIRE LEAGUE...and if you watched the games...him in particular...you KNOW that's not unbelievable the guy is a HORRIBLE LT...Thier next worst was a familiar face with Mike Williams playing guard for 8 games and gave up 2.5 sacks...on pace for 5...our next worst was Jonathan Scott...started 8 gave up 3.5 on pace for seven....Chris Samuels was hurt all season, but gave up a couple sacks in his little time he got to play...kind of like our Butler thing...Then they had Raback who gave up 1 sack all year....Dockery who gave up 0.5 sacks all season....we had Wood, 10 games 3 sacks....Levitre ZERO BABY one of the few performers this season...They had Batiste in some little action for injuries gave up 1 sack in 8 games...Rinehart 1 sack in his short season to...we had Hangartner 1.5 sacks...Chambers 2.5 in 8 games on pace for 5....and Meredith ZERO sacks another keeper... So lets spell it out...if you average the sacks per offensive linemen that saw action based upon if every linemen that saw action played all season...you would get Buffalo 4.2 sacks per lineman...Washington 3.7 sacks per lineman...doesn't seem like much, but if you look at elite lines in the league they are around 2.5 sacks per lineman... If you compare probowls...yeah, they destroy us on the O Line... If you compare sack totals...we allowed more... My thought is that an offensive line is only as good as the worst starter...because it only takes one to get beat for your QB to be in a stretcher...our worst was D Bell...worst in the league...can't even line up correctly...sure as HELL can't block...thier worst was Heyer...I watched him...he wasn't very good...but he wasn't a complete disgrace to the Tackle position like D Bell was...the average time Edwards/Fitzy/Brohm had to throw? 2.4 seconds...Campbell?...3.0 seconds...just about average...so lets not pretend we didn't have the most disgusting offensive line in football probably EVER...I wanted to vomit watching these bummy tackles come in and disgrace the Bills uniform...except for Meredith...I beleive under the circumstances he provided very solid blocking...he's going to be something of an anchor at RT for a long time...D Bell and J. Scott were the most horrible linemen I've seen play in a very very long time...Heyer was nowhere NEAR as bad... Trent Edwards does'nt have the balls to throw down the field that is a big problem. There was times that he had all day to throw the ball and he dumped it off to Jackson. The whole stadium could see that, and he was booed off the field. No thanks to another year of that BS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted April 7, 2010 Share Posted April 7, 2010 A worse O Line????????...because what they had a few less rushing yards....or YPC???...well we tied the Saints for YPC...are you saying our O Line was as good as the Saints....matter of fact only about five teams had a better YPC...so do we actually have an upper echelon Offensive Line???????????????????????????????????????? DID YOU WATCH THE BILLS THIS PAST SEASON AT ALL???... Well...thier worst O Lineman was Heyer that gave up 6.5 sacks...our worst...D Bell...gave up 4 in eight games...on pace for 8...or WORST IN THE ENTIRE LEAGUE...and if you watched the games...him in particular...you KNOW that's not unbelievable the guy is a HORRIBLE LT...Thier next worst was a familiar face with Mike Williams playing guard for 8 games and gave up 2.5 sacks...on pace for 5...our next worst was Jonathan Scott...started 8 gave up 3.5 on pace for seven....Chris Samuels was hurt all season, but gave up a couple sacks in his little time he got to play...kind of like our Butler thing...Then they had Raback who gave up 1 sack all year....Dockery who gave up 0.5 sacks all season....we had Wood, 10 games 3 sacks....Levitre ZERO BABY one of the few performers this season...They had Batiste in some little action for injuries gave up 1 sack in 8 games...Rinehart 1 sack in his short season to...we had Hangartner 1.5 sacks...Chambers 2.5 in 8 games on pace for 5....and Meredith ZERO sacks another keeper... So lets spell it out...if you average the sacks per offensive linemen that saw action based upon if every linemen that saw action played all season...you would get Buffalo 4.2 sacks per lineman...Washington 3.7 sacks per lineman...doesn't seem like much, but if you look at elite lines in the league they are around 2.5 sacks per lineman... If you compare probowls...yeah, they destroy us on the O Line... If you compare sack totals...we allowed more... My thought is that an offensive line is only as good as the worst starter...because it only takes one to get beat for your QB to be in a stretcher...our worst was D Bell...worst in the league...can't even line up correctly...sure as HELL can't block...thier worst was Heyer...I watched him...he wasn't very good...but he wasn't a complete disgrace to the Tackle position like D Bell was...the average time Edwards/Fitzy/Brohm had to throw? 2.4 seconds...Campbell?...3.0 seconds...just about average...so lets not pretend we didn't have the most disgusting offensive line in football probably EVER...I wanted to vomit watching these bummy tackles come in and disgrace the Bills uniform...except for Meredith...I beleive under the circumstances he provided very solid blocking...he's going to be something of an anchor at RT for a long time...D Bell and J. Scott were the most horrible linemen I've seen play in a very very long time...Heyer was nowhere NEAR as bad... Jauron changed every player at every position on the line from the 08 season, the line was completely changed. After everything is said and done, sacks don't mean much if you have a QB like Aaron Rodgers and Big Ben who constantly hold the ball to long waiting for a receiver to break open, they scramble around in the pocket trying to make things work. So they both get sacked often and everyone thinks it is because the line is bad...hardly. If you look at it from an experience standpoint the Bills fielded 2 rookies, one backup C from another team and both tackles had limited experience. Then add in the fact that Most of them were injured on and off all year. The only player on the line that played 16 games was the center, who was rated 27th out of 34 NFL centers. Last seasons Buffalo Bills O line had to be the worst line in the history of the team due to lack of experience, lack of good coaching on protections and the amount of injuries. The Redskins had a much more experienced line, better coaching, better players. Their team losses are the result from bad QB play, IMO. No way should the Bills be looking at this guy as an upgrade over Edwards or Fitz, I'd rather the bills draft Clausen or Tebow if they gotta have another QB. The Redskins have told QB Jason Campbell to stay away from the facility during workouts and also has given him permission to seek a trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted April 7, 2010 Share Posted April 7, 2010 Jauron changed every player at every position on the line from the 08 season, the line was completely changed. After everything is said and done, sacks don't mean much if you have a QB like Aaron Rodgers and Big Ben who constantly hold the ball to long waiting for a receiver to break open, they scramble around in the pocket trying to make things work. So they both get sacked often and everyone thinks it is because the line is bad...hardly. If you look at it from an experience standpoint the Bills fielded 2 rookies, one backup C from another team and both tackles had limited experience. Then add in the fact that Most of them were injured on and off all year. The only player on the line that played 16 games was the center, who was rated 27th out of 34 NFL centers. Last seasons Buffalo Bills O line had to be the worst line in the history of the team due to lack of experience, lack of good coaching on protections and the amount of injuries. The Redskins had a much more experienced line, better coaching, better players. Their team losses are the result turnovers resulting from bad QB play, IMO. No way should the Bills be looking at this guy as an upgrade over Edwards or Fitz. For the life of me, rabbit, I'll never understand why you believe it's prudent to judge OL play on experience rather than actual performance. If you're going to go that way than I suppose Kerry Collins had a better season than Drew Brees, right? I mean, he's got more experience. Marshawn Lynch has more experience than Chris Johnson, so he must be better, right? Wrong. Quality of play is based on performance, not experience. Here's an in-depth analysis of OL play, and you'll undoubtedly notice that teams like Washington, GB and Pittsburgh have equally bad OL play. That's assuming, of course, that you read the description of the stats and how they're derived...if you don't then you'll probably miss it and come back with the 2 misconceptions that you repeatedly state: "experience = good play" and "those other teams' QBs hold the ball too long"; both of which are very clearly taken into account in the analysis. http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol And how you can possibly call the Redskins' losses a result of poor QB play (from a guy that threw for over 3,000 yards and 20+ TDs, and boasted an almost identical stat line to future HOFer Kurt Warner), while making OL excuses for our crop of piss-poor QBs, is completely beyond my ability to comprehend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted April 7, 2010 Share Posted April 7, 2010 The Redskins have told QB Jason Campbell to stay away from the facility during workouts and also has given him permission to seek a trade. Not sure if you heard, but they traded for this McNabb guy (maybe you're familiar with him)...and according to league soruces (per PFT), Campbell and HC Mike Shanahan had a sit-down and agreed that Campbell should sit out during workouts while his agent seeks a trade. So I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lets_go_bills Posted April 7, 2010 Share Posted April 7, 2010 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZypDzW81-c...feature=related I cannot believe the same guys that want to trash Trent Edwards want to bring in Campbell...ridiculous.... Campbell is talented. He's played for too many coaches with poor O-Lines and poor weapons and still puts up good numbers. And he can be had for a 4th apparently. You don't know what you're talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grelit Posted April 7, 2010 Share Posted April 7, 2010 For the life of me, rabbit, I'll never understand why you believe it's prudent to judge OL play on experience rather than actual performance. If you're going to go that way than I suppose Kerry Collins had a better season than Drew Brees, right? I mean, he's got more experience. Marshawn Lynch has more experience than Chris Johnson, so he must be better, right? Wrong. Quality of play is based on performance, not experience. Here's an in-depth analysis of OL play, and you'll undoubtedly notice that teams like Washington, GB and Pittsburgh have equally bad OL play. That's assuming, of course, that you read the description of the stats and how they're derived...if you don't then you'll probably miss it and come back with the 2 misconceptions that you repeatedly state: "experience = good play" and "those other teams' QBs hold the ball too long"; both of which are very clearly taken into account in the analysis. http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol And how you can possibly call the Redskins' losses a result of poor QB play (from a guy that threw for over 3,000 yards and 20+ TDs, and boasted an almost identical stat line to future HOFer Kurt Warner), while making OL excuses for our crop of piss-poor QBs, is completely beyond my ability to comprehend. Making OL excuses for our crop of piss-poor QBs, is completely beyond my ability to comprehend. Completely agree with you on this statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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