Quick to rip TE and Trade for Campbell????

[PDaDdy]

I don't know how you can get a real opinion of either QB. Both have had Mickey Mouse running their offenses for the past couple of years.

 

It may not be the most accurate view but my signature used to be a quote from Jim Kelly. Basically it said when the opportunities were there, which there were, you have to make the throw. Our offense wasn't built around the big play but when we had the chance Trent hit a RB or was not able to get the ball where it needed to be.

[PDaDdy]

G Derrick Dockery rated 24 out of 84 players and took 1,026 snaps (by far their best lineman)

 

 

24th out of 84...hrm....dockery?....that name sounds familiar. We should have picked up a guy like that.

[PDaDdy]

I can't stand this noodle arm crap. His arm is fine. How many times did he over throw a receiver last year?

 

 

The only time Trent overthrew a receiver was probably on a screen pass. Noodle arm or not....it is not a strong arm. Look at all of the best QBs in the league both established and up and coming. What do they almost universally have in common? A BIG ARM!! It's no guarantee for success but if you don't have one ......don't bother showing up. I don't even want to consider a QB to lead my Bills unless he has the big arm ticket to the show.

[PDaDdy]

Almost every new coach, especially an offensive one, wants their own QB. McNabb is better than Campbell at this point and now they have a chance to draft a potentially great LT. Before they did acquired McNabb, they thought enough of Campbell to put a 1st round tender on him, killing any potential trades.

 

The Skins tried as hard as they could to kill Campbell's development. Yet ulike Losman and Edwards, he improved every year. He would be a steal for a 4th rounder.

 

 

We should consider ourselves lucky if we could get campbell for a fourth rounder. I would prefer to see us move Whitner to Washington for Campbell. Gets rid of a guy that shouldn't be starting on our team and saves us a draft pick.

[PDaDdy]

If Campbell is so good... then why do the Redskins want to dump him, after all he had an almost identical stat line to future HoFer Kurt Warner

 

According to the precious stats, Campbell was the 14th rated QB last year and McNabb was 17th... so why would the Redskins trade for a QB with worse stats then the one they have?

 

Did you actually watch the first video, the one where Charlie Casserly talks about Campbell's problems with being indecisive and miss-reading wide open receivers? Or did you simply feel like badgering me because I'm defending the Bills QB's because of the poor O line play?

 

Seems to me that Chan Gailey will have his work cut out for him coaching up the current Bills QB's without wasting draft picks on other players who have some of the same problems.

 

 

That is some harsh criticism of Campbell. Now be equally as critical of Trent. If you think Campbell sucks, Trent is absolute **** by comparison!!!

[thewildrabbit]

24th out of 84...hrm....dockery?....that name sounds familiar. We should have picked up a guy like that.

The Bills dumped him because they didn't believe his performance equaled his pay...

 

Clearly his play was far superior to any player on the Bills O line last season

[thewildrabbit]

I like how you responded...I always find it amusing when people question others' reading comprehension in response to someone questioning their opinion It's worth noting, however, that insulting me won't make your ill-conceived point any more true.

Your the one who stated you had a problem with comprehending what I was saying and were singling out the fact that I pointed to the lines lack of experience as their only fault, it wasn't.

 

You can trumpet every injury stat in the book, and talk all you want about coaching, protections, etc. (none of which you have a modicum of understanding thereto, since you [i assume] are neither an NFL coach nor player), it doesn't change the fact that the Redskins OL performed no better than Buffalo's; a fact that you somehow continue to refuse to acknowledge. Experience and injuries are not the same thing as performance. And you think I'm the guy that struggles with comprehension? Your inability to understand a concept as simple as "performance" vs. "experience" is laughable. Can you point to anything, absolutely anything (aside from injury, which for the 6,743rd time, is not a measure of performance), that would indicate that Washington's line performed measurably better than Buffalo's, let alone prove that their better play is responsible for Jason Campbell's far superior stat line to that of Buffalo's QBs? Since, you know, Washington's losses had nothing to do with their thewildrabbit-certified stellar line and everything to do with their lousy QB play. Jason Campbell didn't suffer a concussion, didn't miss a snap did he? Stats don't always tell the entire story. I watched the Bills failure last season and I attribute it to so many issues on the offense, and mostly the completely revamped O line.

 

Since we're comparing OL stats from profootballfocus.com, how about Washington's awesome line:

 

T Levi Jones rated 75 out of 77 players (behind D. Bell) and took 527 snaps.

T Stephon Hayer rated 71 out of 77 players (behind J. Scott) and took 974 snaps.

G Derrick Dockery rated 24 out of 84 players and took 1,026 snaps (by far their best lineman)By far superior to anything Buffalo put on the field

G Mike Williams did not even make the list out of 84 guards evaluated, so I'm not sure what that says

C Casey Rabach ranked 25 out of 34 players (2 ahead of Hangartner) and took 1,026 snaps

 

Phew, much better line than Buffalo's!

 

Let me sum this up for you, in very clear, concise form, so that we're on the same page, and then you can gather your thoughts and make a (hopefully) intelligent, persuasive argument as to why you think Washington's line performed better than Buffalo's, despite all statistical and actual evidence to the contrary:

 

1) I understand that Buffalo's line play was awful last year

2) I understand that Buffalo's line suffered many injuries last year

3) I understand that injuries make continuity difficult, and thus injuries affect the quality of play from the line

4) I understand that Washington had fewer injuries and better coaching

About time

Now that I've cleared up your misconception that our disagreement here is not based on the fallacy that I dont understand your point, here are the areas that you need to address if we're going to continue to discuss this topic, since you have repeatedly avoided them like the plague:

 

Do you understand that the performance of the two lines was nearly identical, despite the disparity in injuries, personnel, coaching, schemes, etc.? what performance are you talking about? Please re-watch the Saints game week 3 in which Trent Edwards was literally running for his life every play, constant blitzes that were not picked up! The tackle position is where the Bills were weakest and could not contain and hold blocks. The protections were horrible due to lack of playing experience.

 

Furthermore it is my take that the talent of Fred Jackson made the line look better then it actually was.

Do you further understand that performance, not injury is what matters in pro sports (i.e. there is no win/loss column based on injuries, wins and losses are awarded based on points score vs. your opponent, which is a result of performance, not staying healthy; points scored with backups in the game count the same as points scored with starters)?

 

Do you understand that your position on Campbell, Washington's OL, and the general relationship between OL and QB play is dubious at best, based on practically all discernable evaluation criteria?

 

Lastly, do you still believe that Washington's losses were resultant from QB play, when all discernable evidence would show that Campbell performed well despite poor OL play? You still haven't watched the youtube video in which Charlie Casserly talks about Campbell's drawbacks have you?

If you feel that Redskins were 4-12 for some other reason other then the QB... feel free to elaborate.

[C.Biscuit97]

If you feel that Redskins were 4-12 for some other reason other then the QB... feel free to elaborate.

 

 

Then I hope you're not in favor of drafting Clausen or didn't want to trade for Cutler either if you are being consistent. The Skins have a worse oline than us, were down to their 4th string rb, and crappy receivers. Campbell isn't Peyton Manning but he played well for the crapfest that was the Washington Redskins.

[Big Turk]

But they pointed out because of his height (6'1"), he can't see over the linemen and has to throw to spots. Thus, you see the erratic throws.

 

Funny how Brees doesn't have the same problems at 6'0"...

 

Why do we always have to have an excuse for why a guy can't do something? Sometimes its OK to just say a guy sucks because he sucks and leave it at that...

 

Fitz isn't inaccurate because he is too short, he is inaccurate because he doesn't have enough talent....

[Celtic_soulja]

Then I hope you're not in favor of drafting Clausen or didn't want to trade for Cutler either if you are being consistent. The Skins have a worse oline than us, were down to their 4th string rb, and crappy receivers. Campbell isn't Peyton Manning but he played well for the crapfest that was the Washington Redskins.

 

I definitely don't want Clausen...he's a bum...and I didn't want the Bills to go after Cutler either...we have a worse O Line than the Skins and a better QB...

[apuszczalowski]

Who says that bringing in Campbell for say a 4th or 5th means he is annointed starter? He is just another veteran option to come in and compete for the job. Thats what Chan and Buddy want, no one is given a job on this team, they all have to compete for their spots. If Trent can beat out Campbell and Fitz, he will be the starter. If Brohm can beat them all out, he starts. If Campbell really is the best option, he will start. Its not rocket science, its Football, and the coaches are looking for the best players to start

[C.Biscuit97]

Funny how Brees doesn't have the same problems at 6'0"...

 

Why do we always have to have an excuse for why a guy can't do something? Sometimes its OK to just say a guy sucks because he sucks and leave it at that...

 

Fitz isn't inaccurate because he is too short, he is inaccurate because he doesn't have enough talent....

 

Thus, Fitz should be a backup QB and is not as good as one of the best starting QBs in the NFL.

[thewildrabbit]

Then I hope you're not in favor of drafting Clausen or didn't want to trade for Cutler either if you are being consistent. The Skins have a worse oline than us, were down to their 4th string rb, and crappy receivers. Campbell isn't Peyton Manning but he played well for the crapfest that was the Washington Redskins.

Your entitled to think what you like and if you want to believe the Redskins O line was worse then Buffalo's, that's fine.

I realize both the Redskins and Bill's O lines were bad. But, there is no way your ever going to convince me the Redskins was worse...as I watched the Bills play every game, every snap on offense. Even the "thebandit27" pointed out all the faults with the O line:

1) I understand that Buffalo's line play was awful last year

2) I understand that Buffalo's line suffered many injuries last year

3) I understand that injuries make continuity difficult, and thus injuries affect the quality of play from the line

4) I understand that Washington had fewer injuries and better coaching

 

I'd take Jay Cutler over Jason Campbell any day as I feel Cutler can still be coached up... same with Trent Edwards. I also wouldn't mind drafting Jimmy Clausen or any rookie because then Gailey will have a chance to train the guy right from the start.

 

There is a reason the Redskins dumped Campbell, if he had any value to them don't you think they would have kept him? Why waste precious draft picks on a guy who couldn't win on a better team?

[Red Squirrel]

Funny how Brees doesn't have the same problems at 6'0"...

 

Why do we always have to have an excuse for why a guy can't do something? Sometimes its OK to just say a guy sucks because he sucks and leave it at that...

 

Fitz isn't inaccurate because he is too short, he is inaccurate because he doesn't have enough talent....

 

Inaccurate, you say....

 

vs Colts, 64%

vs Patriots, 68%

vs Dolphins, 65.4%

on first down, 64.9%

at Ralph Wilson Stadium, 65.7% (4 games)

temp. less than 40 F, 66%

 

The guy's numbers (and clearly the perception of him) were destroyed primarily by two games against the Jets, who had by far and away the best pass defense in the league. One of those games (and another QB rating killing performance against Tennessee, which was punctuated by an *accurate* pass turned into an INT by TO) was a relief appearance when he likely got few practice reps.

 

I want to emphasize that I am not saying Fitz is great, or a good long term starting option. What I am saying is he is a HECK of a lot better than he gets credit for here, and he is a MUCH better option for 2010 than Trent Edwards. And Campbell. And especially a broken-down Bulger. I could be sold on Clausen, and would pick Bradford at #9 in a heartbeat...not that he'll be there.