SuperKillerRobots Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 Exactly...I sure as hell hope this new Staff is not looking to stroke lil' donte's ego cause on the field Wilson/Byrd was a MUCH better combination than Whitner/anyone... I know it seems rediculous to have a #8 overall Draft Pick as your 3rd Safety...But that's all Donte is on this Team...He flat out is not as good as the other two guys and probably never will be...We'll see though...Maybe he gets a spark with this new Staff...Who knows? I don't get this sentiment. Wilson was terrible against the run last year, while Whitner played very well - especially in the first few games of the year before he got hurt. Wilson was playing out of position at SS (he should be a FS and very clearly that's all he'll do in this defense, which wants a physical presence at SS), Scott was playing out of position at LB, and Donte was playing out of position at nickel corner. Gailey just wants everyone to line up where they are natural fits and Wilson isn't a better ballhawk than Byrd. You can't diminish a player's position on the team because you don't like where/when he was drafted vs what he is. He will never justify a top 10 pick, but that doesn't mean he isn't a good player or that we should get rid of him for a lesser player (yes, I'm calling Wilson and Scott lesser players). Just the fact that posters in this thread are bringing up his draft position in a thread that doesn't have anything to do with drafting or the year he was drafted shows how hung up people are on this issue. I don't think Gailey cares one bit about where he was drafted or what anyone thinks about his opinions of his players. That is probably a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 Outside of those in the Bills fan base who are intent on hating Whitner because he was drafted too high (or whatever other reason), Whitner is a highly respected safety. Woah....no blasphemy on the board please. There are a lot of people here that can't get through a day without their hating Donte Whitner fix. You should know that the only acceptable results for a former #8 pick are a HOF career or lying half dead in a gutter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 It is amazing to continue to read the criticims of those who are super critical of some of our players. Whitner may not be All Pro but the comments from the national media and other players all seem to endorse the fact that this is a guy who most teams would want playing for them. In fact, most fan bases would want a guy who strives to rally his team and the public even when the overall team sucks. link? No, he wasn't drafted for the 3-4 but what he has done is to help cover our problems and overwhelming injuries to the secondary. Actually you are describing the guy who replaced Whitner as starter. As for me ... give me a team of players wanting to guarantee a playoff spot and then let them go out the prove it. It's easier to guarantee playoffs when you are twittering from the bench. And, may the best players win the starting positions .... today's depth chart is tomorrow's kitty litter. We will see in September who the new Buffalo Bills are and there is a chance that by having a coach who plays to win rather than who tries to not lose some of the players we have put down still may rise to the challenge! The best part is that you can say this every spring! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 interesting quote in Allen Wilson's article about Chan Gailey's comments during an AFC coaches breakfast. If George is a backup, at least for now, does that mean Donte is the starting SS? Wilson is a better player than Whitner...it should be clear by the end of camp to Gailey... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayFinkle Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 Byrd and Wilson are FS....Whitner and Scott are SS. In the cover 2 they played most of last year, the FS and SS are basically interchangable. I highly doubt that is the case with the new D the Bills will be running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
....lybob Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 Don't want to give to much credit to players ratings but George Wilson was rated as the 4th best safety and was the highest rated Bill (I didn't check punters or kickers)- so I would be a little surprised if he's not one of the starters- I suppose it could happen for salary structure reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 You're constructing an argument that I haven't made. You should sue for copyright infringement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celtic_soulja Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 Byrd and Wilson are FS....Whitner and Scott are SS. In the cover 2 they played most of last year, the FS and SS are basically interchangable. I highly doubt that is the case with the new D the Bills will be running. Wow someone who understands what the difference is between FS and SS....geez...I read these posts like yeah Wilson is a strong safety...if you're playing soft zone THE ENTIRE GAME...a SS is a guy who gets 90-120 tackles a game for run support...makes the hits in the open field...like the Rodney Harrisons...what Donte is SUPPOSED to be...his first two years...when he was a true SS even in the wack cover two scheme racked up 90 and 100 tackles...then with injuries and this and that they had him playing corner and FS...all over the joint...this kid can play...and in a NORMAL fricken defense he'll make an EXCELLENT SS...Byrd and Whitner...backups are Wilson and Scott... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoner7 Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 interesting quote in Allen Wilson's article about Chan Gailey's comments during an AFC coaches breakfast. If George is a backup, at least for now, does that mean Donte is the starting SS? If I were to refer to last season I would say "Donte was outplayed by a backup" - meaning G. Wilson. I think thats waht Galiey did there. I sure hope so at least, the last thing we need is another coaching staff that cannot evaluate their own players. See Leonard/Greer/Jackson etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoner7 Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 Wow someone who understands what the difference is between FS and SS....geez...I read these posts like yeah Wilson is a strong safety...if you're playing soft zone THE ENTIRE GAME...a SS is a guy who gets 90-120 tackles a game for run support...makes the hits in the open field...like the Rodney Harrisons...what Donte is SUPPOSED to be...his first two years...when he was a true SS even in the wack cover two scheme racked up 90 and 100 tackles...then with injuries and this and that they had him playing corner and FS...all over the joint...this kid can play...and in a NORMAL fricken defense he'll make an EXCELLENT SS...Byrd and Whitner...backups are Wilson and Scott... Generally, SS's move into the box on run plays and are the "eighth guy" They also cover the TE at the line of scrimmage and are shaded to the strong side of the field. Thats what Wilson did, while Byrd/Donte stayed deep. Donte played both last year, but more free than strong, Wilson may have taken a few snaps at free, but was never a constant at that role. Im not sure what you were getting at, but Wilson is a strong safety - and was the Bills best defender along with K. WIlliams last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 You see, what the coaches do is evaluate a player based on his play, and the circumstances (was the player playing injured?). Unlike message board know-it-alls, the coaches do NOT take into account a players draft spot when evaluating their play. And to the people trashing Whitner, someone please please please explain to me what his draft spot (4 years ago) has anything to do with how the coaches view his abilities as a safety? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFLstyle Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 Selecting Donte at #8 was a bad decision, but he's not a bad player. He's our best player at strong safety and will be our starter. Deal with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in STL Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 Wow someone who understands what the difference is between FS and SS....geez...I read these posts like yeah Wilson is a strong safety...if you're playing soft zone THE ENTIRE GAME...a SS is a guy who gets 90-120 tackles a game for run support...makes the hits in the open field...like the Rodney Harrisons...what Donte is SUPPOSED to be...his first two years...when he was a true SS even in the wack cover two scheme racked up 90 and 100 tackles...then with injuries and this and that they had him playing corner and FS...all over the joint...this kid can play...and in a NORMAL fricken defense he'll make an EXCELLENT SS...Byrd and Whitner...backups are Wilson and Scott... Hope not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uforesircher Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 Exactly...I sure as hell hope this new Staff is not looking to stroke lil' donte's ego cause on the field Wilson/Byrd was a MUCH better combination than Whitner/anyone... I know it seems rediculous to have a #8 overall Draft Pick as your 3rd Safety...But that's all Donte is on this Team...He flat out is not as good as the other two guys and probably never will be...We'll see though...Maybe he gets a spark with this new Staff...Who knows? well actually the bolded part of your post is not totally correct - he is the best ss we have against the run - he really is - perhaps in an obvious passing situation it would not be surprising to see wilson in for him especially in this new defense scheme we will have - but then again i would not be surprised to see scott in for donte in that situation as well - i do believe that both wilson and scott are better against the pass than donte Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustMaxx Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 Donte can start, but he doesnt have to play the whole game =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperKillerRobots Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 Don't want to give to much credit to players ratings but George Wilson was rated as the 4th best safety and was the highest rated Bill (I didn't check punters or kickers)- so I would be a little surprised if he's not one of the starters- I suppose it could happen for salary structure reasons. I think the point is that our HC (rightly so) doesn't care about last year's statistics. I think he intends to put the players with the proper skills in the proper positions. Whitner, no matter how well Wilson was rated by anyone, anywhere, can play the run, play near the line, diagnose plays, get other players into the right positions, and ultimately provide the best versatility of any of the safeties. It's not about salary, it's about putting a player a position that he's suited for and playing to his strengths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goBills1 Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 Byrd and Wilson are FS....Whitner and Scott are SS. In the cover 2 they played most of last year, the FS and SS are basically interchangable. I highly doubt that is the case with the new D the Bills will be running. Thank you! I thought I was going crazy for a second after reading all of these posts. Byrd is our FS and the only competition is between Whitner and Scott for who will start at SS. They will both play depending on the down and distance. In the 3-4 robber scheme, which george edwards is known to run, the SS usually gets after the qb via this zone blitzing scheme which IMO Whitner is better suited for. On the other hand Scott is the bigger, more physical player who is 2x better against the run.......they will both play but the edge goes to Whitner because he's the guy that they are paying all the money to. And if he bulks up a little bit i think it'd help in in the run game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllDayADay Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 Until we know the Byrd man is going to be 100 percent for training camp we need Donte. Lets give Donte another year in a new scheme. IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celtic_soulja Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 Donte is the best SS on the roster...Wilson is a great backup...Donte has more skills and leadership qualities...and he's younger...Donte and Byrd starters...IMO...I think Wilson is a good player as is Scott...we'll see...I like em all anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrudginglyPessimistic Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 Generally, SS's move into the box on run plays and are the "eighth guy" They also cover the TE at the line of scrimmage and are shaded to the strong side of the field. Thats what Wilson did, while Byrd/Donte stayed deep. Donte played both last year, but more free than strong, Wilson may have taken a few snaps at free, but was never a constant at that role. Im not sure what you were getting at, but Wilson is a strong safety - and was the Bills best defender along with K. WIlliams last season. Generally you are right, but I do not believe that is a correct rendition of the SS role in the Cover 2 which was our base D (and which more accurately was like the version of the Cover 2 known as the Tampa 2 in that it was similar to the Tampa 2 in that we used the MLB as a middle of the field deep cover guy but we never had the quality DT play that Tampa had at the height of effectiveness of this D). In the style Cover 2 we played rather than the SS having his prime responsibilities be pass coverage on the TE or an RB who comes out of the backfield into the pass route and having his primary run responsibility be the 8th man in the boxm in our base D the SS actually had deep coverage duty on the WRs. The FS positions and the SS positions were basically the same in the Bills Cover 2 since they actually had essentially the same roles on opposite sides of the field regarding pass coverage. Both Ss were called upon to make reads on regard to whether the run was headed their way and in particular whether there was a receiver headed to the deep outside flag pattern they had primary responsibility for, but actually to some extent Byrd and Wilson made glitzier pass coverage plays than Whitner as the way Byrd in particular and also Wilson to some extent played great centerfielder roles picking off poorly thrown and excelling at tip drill INTs when the ball was thrown poorly to the primary receiver on the play. Perhaps Whitner can be faulted actually for playing the run well in that he focused primary attention to his work on the run rather than concentrate on the INTs which Byrd did so well on and Wilson made some notable plays. Actually though I think a bit of what happened was that opposing OCs likely passed a lot trying to exploit the young and relatively inexperienced at S Wilson and these two athletes made them pay for their mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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