The Council of Trent

[Rob's House]

We need a stat that shows the amount of attempts made between 15-25 yards (IN THE AIR). THis is where Trent struggles. He has not Ba**s to throw it down the middle of the field. He doesn't anticipate WRs coming open. Trent throws 3 basic passes......The dump off, the 5-7 yard check to a TE or WR, and a deep ball. HE HAS NO INTERMEDIATE GAME which is where the real QBs feast on defenses.

 

One of the more intelligent TE assessments I've heard. Much better than the mindless mouth breathers who just say Edwards sucks b/c Jim Kelly said.

 

I would also add that he has trouble sensing the pass rush. Maybe part of the gun shy thing.

 

....could be from Dicky J and his high school offense. I don't underestimate that. I think the offense he was in would have given better QBs than Trent some trouble. No creativity makes it a lot easier for the defense and tough on the QB.

 

As far as I am concerned, I am giving every QB on this team a blank slate.

 

Another good point. Going back to his time in Chicago no QB has ever done well under Jauron. Losman was doing well before we implemented the Dick Jauron Offensive School of Suck. Remember when Lee Evans still went deep, and the reactionary blogger dipshits didn't decide he sucked too. I think I'm seeing a pattern here.

[Original Byrd Man]

The next best option is on someone else's roster, so GO #5!

I'm not ready to give up on Trent yet but his fragility is a major concern (that's why he was available in the 3rd), and I'm not sure he can overcome his "deer in the headlights" tendencies. Also I wouldn't rule out Brohm for the future. He doesn't have much experience but has had a very limited opportunities. Poster's and coulmnist's both panned his effort in the Atlanta game but his play was on a par with both Trent and Fitz, while not having the benefit of OTA's, training camp and most of the season. I'm sure it helped his cause that the Birds had little or no film on him so didn't know what to expect but he could emerge from all of this as the guy. The one knock on him and on TE is the lack of atheleticism, which Chan seems to prefer. Fitz has it but not all the QB skills desired. I just hope it all works out.

[thewildrabbit]

Frist off Trent has not won a QB Competition yet!! JP won the last QB competition the BIlls had and ended up losing the Job anyway. FItz was brought in as a Confidence boost for Trent for the simple reason: FITZ CANNOT WIN ANY QB COMPETITion so it comes down to what Brohm can prove and any rookie/Treade or Free agent the acquire before the start of camp!

 

SO far in my opinion Trent is in the lead ( not a big Trent fan myself either but I am a fan of a QB finally succeeding in Buffalo and if he can get his head straigh this year then so be it) The only issue I see with trent now is his favorite WR is gone. SO without Josh Reed who does he throw the ball to consitantly. Will he finally learn to be Brady Like and spread the football around? does he finally have someone whocan teach him to overcome and progress instead of the decade of regressed teachings?

 

Lt me touch on Brady a second if I may. Considering I live in New engalnd I have seen and heard alot about his play. He was not a deep ball thrower to begin with and it took some time to develop. He was thow an accurate short to mid range QB who relied mostly on SCREEN PASSES ( everyone should know this how many times did we get killed by a 2 yard out to faulk?) and his TEs. One thing we have lacked is TEs so my point is simple he has been compared to Brady for a reason, My buddy of 22 years and die hard pats/ Brady fan believes Trent resembles him perfectly and keeps tellimg me we Need Tight ends and his down feild will improve over time so one more shot with a new staff could be the resurrection he needs.

I would agree with the Bills need a competent receiving tight end...they also needed a blocking tight end, a better full back. A better O line, a better game plan, a better play book, a better play caller, a better scheme, better coaching.

 

I can recall watching corner blitzes coming and the QB see's it and the WR doesn't (Josh Reed) because he isn't looking, if he did notice that the guy covering him just dropped to run the other way and he was wide freaking open for about three seconds... but if the WR is to stupid to pay attention to details like that.

That could have been a huge play, how many years do you give these guys to become smart players, Roscoe Parrish is the same way. I know this is just one play, but I have seen this type of thing happen so many times the last few years.

 

I think it all comes down to coaching, which has been lacking on the offensive side of the ball for 10 years. Hopefully things start to change as the players learn how to do things properly.

 

Bottom line , how can you judge any player on the offensive side of the ball when they were lead by incompetents.

[Armchair GM]

I know I know, just me...but hear me out first...

 

Okay, first...he's only started 32 games and is one of the most sacked QB's in the league because of our horrible O-Line...going first on statistics...has he been that bad?...

 

Trent Edwards: First 32 starts....61 comp %...........5498 yards....24 tds/25 ints.......3 percent of his passes are picked

 

Joe Montana: First 32 starts.....64 comp %............5456 yards...35 tds/22 ints.......3 percent of his passes were picked

 

Tom Brady: First 32 starts......63 comp %............6,613 yards.....46 tds/26 ints....4 percent of his passes were picked

(and yes Brady threw LESSSSS than Trent has in his first 32 starts making his int percentage a bit higher)

 

Steve Young: First 32 starts.....53 comp %.........4,467 yards.......24/24.......3 percent of his passes were picked

 

Phillip Rivers: First 32 starts.......58 comp %.......5,111 yards......33/18.......2 percent of his passes were picked

 

Drew Brees: First 32 starts........58 comp %.......5,612 yards......28/31.......5 percent of his passes were picked

 

 

Okay so they are pretty comparable numbers to some GREAT QB's...now I'm not suggesting that Trent is ANY OF THOSE...but what I'm suggesting is that we still haven't seen enough evidence to say he isn't either...

 

Outside of statistics...he has a fluid motion and is still young in the game....he has a decent arm and when given time can do some damage...his two concusions have him gun shy back there, but who can blame him?...now enter Chan's offense...run first presumably because we cannot draft a stud and there are none available unless we pry D Mac from philly...so a run first ball club will rarely throw it around to millions of different wide outs...one deep threat and TE's and Backs out of the backfield....that's Trent's staple isn't it?...he never got on the same page with T.O....and since he's gone....I don't think Trent will be pressured to throw it more than twenty times a game except on rare occasions...

 

He is the ultimate efficient QB...to a fault sometimes...but in a run first defensive team...isn't that what you want?...I think it would be a mistake to draft a QB high in THIS draft, and I think with a Run stuffing DT and a couple OT's...you have a whole new ball game where Trent is concerned...he's intelligent and just needs to get over being gun shy...which I think he can do...now, again...I am not saying he's pro bowl material, but I think he is capable...and I think that we do not have enough evidence to criticize him yet...not when his numbers are comparable...his win loss is comparable as well to some of them...and I think he can be much more effective with a better O-Line

 

I'm right there with you on this. I truly believe that TE is a victim of horrible coaching. They totally screwed him up mentally. Start him, pull him, put him back in...it's kinda hard to succeed when you don't think anyone believes in you. With that being said, here's my issue with him: why isn't there ny news comming out of OBD about what TE is doing to improve his game...?? If I hadanything to do with him, coach/friend/family/teamate, I would be pushing this kid to hit the gym hard and seek out some tutilage....yet, no news. Kinda makes me wonder if the former staff took away his motivation as well as his footbal intellect.

[DarthICE]

I'm not a TE fan, BUT..... it would not surprise me to see him win a QB battle if the Bills shore up their OL.

 

If he can get some protection, he could still save his career, maybe.

 

!@#$ me, are we seriously stilll talking about this worthless POS? Give it up already.

[Rob's House]

!@#$ me, are we seriously stilll talking about this worthless POS? Give it up already.

 

I would love for you to give a scenario that fits into your view of what should be done, and please don't say something retarded like "get a franchise QB" w/o explaining who and how.

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

with the current roster I'd say they start Trent. Until he gets hurt or they sign a better QB.

[yungmack]

I'm not a TE fan, BUT..... it would not surprise me to see him win a QB battle if the Bills shore up their OL.

 

If he can get some protection, he could still save his career, maybe.

I really don't know if TE's problems are the result of lousy lines, lousy coaching or of his own lousy abilities; good cases have been made for all three possibilities here on TSW. But I can't forget that Bill Walsh, who was widely regarded as one of the very best evaluators of QBs, raved about Edwards. I believe he said something like Edwards was the best he'd seen coming out of college since Montana.

 

So if it's the line that was the problem, that's in the process of being fixed. If it's the coaching, then you could hardly ask for better than Gailey, who has a rep as a very good QB mentor and an OC who tailors his approach to the abilities (and limitations) of his QB.

 

So that leaves TE's own abilities as the real question mark in my mind. That's what the spotlight will be on this season (and pre-season). Maybe he finally "gets it" and lives up to Bill Walsh's prediction. Or maybe he's beyond salvaging. But with the absence of a consensus franchise QB being available to the Bills in this draft, if the coaches feel he's good enough to start, then I would support that decision.

 

But I'd be holding my breath.

[reddogblitz]

Frist off Trent has not won a QB Competition yet!! JP won the last QB competition the BIlls had and ended up losing the Job anyway. FItz was brought in as a Confidence boost for Trent for the simple reason: FITZ CANNOT WIN ANY QB COMPETITion so it comes down to what Brohm can prove and any rookie/Treade or Free agent the acquire before the start of camp!

Uhm, he won one last year.

 

Until we get someone better, or Trent or Brohm majorly pick up their game this offseason, Fitz is the MAN until further notice. Fitz is probably in his back yard throwing through a tire (or missing it) while Trent is in sunny CA working on his golf game. That's the difference.

[Guest dog14787]

It's an impossible question to answer until the draft is over. If the Bills invest a high pick on a QB then Trent is done in Buffalo. Period. It's what's best for Trent and best for the team.

 

However, if they take a project in rounds 3-5, then it's entirely possible that Trent beats out Brohm and Fitz in camp and wins the job. Personally, I don't get why everyone hates Trent so much, but the dude is a serious china doll. He's made of glass. So even if he wins the job, he has to stay healthy for 16 games for me to believe that he's the long term solution at QB.

 

My guess, especially with Seattle trading for a QB today, is that the Bills find a way to get one of the top 2 QBs in the first round and Fitz is our opening day starter with the heir apparent waiting till week 8 or so to step in.

 

I hear this all the time and what makes you think Jim Kelly or any other QB can take the hits TE took and not get a concussion?

[Guest dog14787]

I know I know, just me...but hear me out first...

 

Okay, first...he's only started 32 games and is one of the most sacked QB's in the league because of our horrible O-Line...going first on statistics...has he been that bad?...

 

Trent Edwards: First 32 starts....61 comp %...........5498 yards....24 tds/25 ints.......3 percent of his passes are picked

 

Joe Montana: First 32 starts.....64 comp %............5456 yards...35 tds/22 ints.......3 percent of his passes were picked

 

Tom Brady: First 32 starts......63 comp %............6,613 yards.....46 tds/26 ints....4 percent of his passes were picked

(and yes Brady threw LESSSSS than Trent has in his first 32 starts making his int percentage a bit higher)

 

Steve Young: First 32 starts.....53 comp %.........4,467 yards.......24/24.......3 percent of his passes were picked

 

Phillip Rivers: First 32 starts.......58 comp %.......5,111 yards......33/18.......2 percent of his passes were picked

 

Drew Brees: First 32 starts........58 comp %.......5,612 yards......28/31.......5 percent of his passes were picked

 

 

Okay so they are pretty comparable numbers to some GREAT QB's...now I'm not suggesting that Trent is ANY OF THOSE...but what I'm suggesting is that we still haven't seen enough evidence to say he isn't either...

 

Outside of statistics...he has a fluid motion and is still young in the game....he has a decent arm and when given time can do some damage...his two concusions have him gun shy back there, but who can blame him?...now enter Chan's offense...run first presumably because we cannot draft a stud and there are none available unless we pry D Mac from philly...so a run first ball club will rarely throw it around to millions of different wide outs...one deep threat and TE's and Backs out of the backfield....that's Trent's staple isn't it?...he never got on the same page with T.O....and since he's gone....I don't think Trent will be pressured to throw it more than twenty times a game except on rare occasions...

 

He is the ultimate efficient QB...to a fault sometimes...but in a run first defensive team...isn't that what you want?...I think it would be a mistake to draft a QB high in THIS draft, and I think with a Run stuffing DT and a couple OT's...you have a whole new ball game where Trent is concerned...he's intelligent and just needs to get over being gun shy...which I think he can do...now, again...I am not saying he's pro bowl material, but I think he is capable...and I think that we do not have enough evidence to criticize him yet...not when his numbers are comparable...his win loss is comparable as well to some of them...and I think he can be much more effective with a better O-Line

 

Good post

[PDaDdy]

I know I know, just me...but hear me out first...

 

Okay, first...he's only started 32 games and is one of the most sacked QB's in the league because of our horrible O-Line...going first on statistics...has he been that bad?...

 

Trent Edwards: First 32 starts....61 comp %...........5498 yards....24 tds/25 ints.......3 percent of his passes are picked

 

Joe Montana: First 32 starts.....64 comp %............5456 yards...35 tds/22 ints.......3 percent of his passes were picked

 

Tom Brady: First 32 starts......63 comp %............6,613 yards.....46 tds/26 ints....4 percent of his passes were picked

(and yes Brady threw LESSSSS than Trent has in his first 32 starts making his int percentage a bit higher)

 

Steve Young: First 32 starts.....53 comp %.........4,467 yards.......24/24.......3 percent of his passes were picked

 

Phillip Rivers: First 32 starts.......58 comp %.......5,111 yards......33/18.......2 percent of his passes were picked

 

Drew Brees: First 32 starts........58 comp %.......5,612 yards......28/31.......5 percent of his passes were picked

 

 

Okay so they are pretty comparable numbers to some GREAT QB's...now I'm not suggesting that Trent is ANY OF THOSE...but what I'm suggesting is that we still haven't seen enough evidence to say he isn't either...

 

Outside of statistics...he has a fluid motion and is still young in the game....he has a decent arm and when given time can do some damage...his two concusions have him gun shy back there, but who can blame him?...now enter Chan's offense...run first presumably because we cannot draft a stud and there are none available unless we pry D Mac from philly...so a run first ball club will rarely throw it around to millions of different wide outs...one deep threat and TE's and Backs out of the backfield....that's Trent's staple isn't it?...he never got on the same page with T.O....and since he's gone....I don't think Trent will be pressured to throw it more than twenty times a game except on rare occasions...

 

He is the ultimate efficient QB...to a fault sometimes...but in a run first defensive team...isn't that what you want?...I think it would be a mistake to draft a QB high in THIS draft, and I think with a Run stuffing DT and a couple OT's...you have a whole new ball game where Trent is concerned...he's intelligent and just needs to get over being gun shy...which I think he can do...now, again...I am not saying he's pro bowl material, but I think he is capable...and I think that we do not have enough evidence to criticize him yet...not when his numbers are comparable...his win loss is comparable as well to some of them...and I think he can be much more effective with a better O-Line

 

 

While you're at it throw JPs numbers in there. By the statistics you have chosen he was an even better choice than Edwards. The problem here is that we can't rely 100% on stats. Neither Edwards or Losman passed the eye test or the more important help their team to win test!!!! Edwards is, was and will always be a kitty, weak armed QB.

[Cynical]

I really don't know if TE's problems are the result of lousy lines, lousy coaching or of his own lousy abilities; good cases have been made for all three possibilities here on TSW. But I can't forget that Bill Walsh, who was widely regarded as one of the very best evaluators of QBs, raved about Edwards. I believe he said something like Edwards was the best he'd seen coming out of college since Montana.

 

'widely regarded as one of the very best evaluators of QB's'?

By what estimation?

 

This has been debunked numerous times on this board (and others including non-Bills boards). Bill Walsh's record is pretty bad in fact.

 

He was wrong about Montana (wanted Steve Fuller and Steve Dill over Montana. Later admitted someone in the 49ers organization convinced him to take Montana.)

 

He was right about Steve Young (the only one he was right about)

 

He was wrong about Jake Plummer (called him the next Joe Montana, "Super Bowls and everything")

Wrong about Joey Harrington and David Carr.

 

There are others, but I cannot remember them right now.

 

And right now, Trent Edwards is looking like another failure for Walsh.

 

So if it's the line that was the problem, that's in the process of being fixed. If it's the coaching, then you could hardly ask for better than Gailey, who has a rep as a very good QB mentor and an OC who tailors his approach to the abilities (and limitations) of his QB.

 

This is interesting. All Trent apologists automatically assume this rep gives Trent an 'edge' somehow. I did not realize Chan's rep was built on over coming a player's chickens**t mindset.

 

IMHO, I think people are going to be surprised how well Fitzpatrick and possibly Brohm respond to Gailey.

[Meark]

Uhm, he won one last year.

 

Until we get someone better, or Trent or Brohm majorly pick up their game this offseason, Fitz is the MAN until further notice. Fitz is probably in his back yard throwing through a tire (or missing it) while Trent is in sunny CA working on his golf game. That's the difference.

 

Edwards was playing like crap so they switched. That's not really a competition.

 

Fitz is not the man and if he is the starter might as well write off the season. He just doesn't have the tools to be a starting QB.

 

FYI, I found this on Trent for you.. Yes its last off season, but shows he isn't just out playing golf..

 

http://www.examiner.com/x-5202-San-Jose-Fi...out-and-improve

[grelit]

!@#$ me, are we seriously stilll talking about this worthless POS? Give it up already.

 

 

+1 I agree. People really need to come to terms that he is a god awful Quarterback...Excuse after excuse....

Not sure what the appeal to this loser is.

[Poeticlaw]

Uhm, he won one last year.

 

Until we get someone better, or Trent or Brohm majorly pick up their game this offseason, Fitz is the MAN until further notice. Fitz is probably in his back yard throwing through a tire (or missing it) while Trent is in sunny CA working on his golf game. That's the difference.

 

 

UMm No he did not Trent Was the Annointed Starter PERIOD!!!!

[Guest dog14787]

+1 I agree. People really need to come to terms that he is a god awful Quarterback...Excuse after excuse....

Not sure what the appeal to this loser is.

 

 

Excuses? Who needs excuses considering the Bills horrible coaching, management, and the pathetic protection that has been given to the QB's lately.

 

Seems like its pretty obvious it would be impossible for any QB to succeed under the conditions TE has tried to play through.

[CosmicBills]

I hear this all the time and what makes you think Jim Kelly or any other QB can take the hits TE took and not get a concussion?

It's a medical fact that some people are more resistant to injury than others. It's just how things go. Trent's FIRST concussion was a brutal hit that I don't fault him for at all. His second concussion was the sort of hit that happens every other game in the NFL and 90% of the QBs would have gotten back up.

 

Look through his history and he's always been hurt. Over time those injuries keep adding up. Sure, it doesn't help that the line is a revolving door, and it's unfair to blame Trent for something he can't control like his body's durability ... but it also doesn't change the fact that you can't be a starting QB from the IR list.

[Guest dog14787]

It's a medical fact that some people are more resistant to injury than others. It's just how things go. Trent's FIRST concussion was a brutal hit that I don't fault him for at all. His second concussion was the sort of hit that happens every other game in the NFL and 90% of the QBs would have gotten back up.

 

Look through his history and he's always been hurt. Over time those injuries keep adding up. Sure, it doesn't help that the line is a revolving door, and it's unfair to blame Trent for something he can't control like his body's durability ... but it also doesn't change the fact that you can't be a starting QB from the IR list.

 

In my opinion the way TE was twisted like a pretzel his flexibility saved him from more serious injuries that other QB's would have probably sustained. I'm actually surprised he got up off the ground and limped away from it.

 

You need to go take a look at the concussion again and also remember TE suffered two concussions in under 12 months.

[CosmicBills]

In my opinion the way TE was twisted like a pretzel his flexibility saved him from more serious injuries that other QB's would have probably sustained. I'm actually surprised he got up off the ground and limped away from it.

 

You need to go take a look at the concussion again and also remember TE suffered two concussions in under 12 months.

I watched it many times because it's astounding to me how it resulted in a concussion. A leg injury, sure. A concussion? His head hit the turf but his momentum was slowed by the twisting you mentioned that it wasn't a very hard hit in relation to other "big" hits in the game.

 

Certainly having 2 concussions in 12 months factored in. Once you have one concussion you're more likely to have a second. When you have 2, you're more likely to have a 3rd. All the more reason to call Trent injury prone. You're making my point for me.

 

Again, I'm not bashing Trent. He cannot control his body's ability to prevent injury. I'm sure he stretches, lifts, runs and does all he can to strengthen his body and make it as resilient as possible -- but for some people, that's never going to be enough.