Deep2Moulds46 Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 I'm not going to pretend to watch old DVD's of Bills games focusing on the line of scrimmage, but it seems like common sense would point to Marcus Stroud being an underperforming player. Since he has been a Bill, our run defense has continued to be terrible. Yet, every expert/film-watcher talks about how underrated and under appreciated Kyle Williams is. Simple math tells me if you have two very good DT's, it would be hard to have such a bad run D, even if your linebackers are street free agents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 stroud played injured last year....prior to that injury, he was DOUBLE TEAMED on every play. after the injury, he was doubled about half the time. i expect him to return to form this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPS Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 I think he IS the problem. Single or double teamed, he backpedals more than the dbs. I think he's done and Del Rio knew exactly what he was doing in getting a 3rd and a 5th for him. Yet another example of trading for an aging vet not working out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JStranger76 Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 Him being injured last year, kind of tough to tell. I think this year with him playing a new position, you gotta watch him play some real games too see if he's the answer as a 3-4 end. He could be an absolute monster there or just average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deep2Moulds46 Posted March 17, 2010 Author Share Posted March 17, 2010 I feel like the switch to the 3-4 is going to help some players and hurt others. I have no idea what to think of Stroud's chances. He has been a 4-3 DT his entire career, but a 5-technique D-End has a similar role in 2-gapping. The guy I think could excell as a 3-4 DE is Spencer Johnson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 Him being injured last year, kind of tough to tell. I think this year with him playing a new position, you gotta watch him play some real games too see if he's the answer as a 3-4 end. He could be an absolute monster there or just average. \ I have to agree. He's durable and played hurt. His past performance should give him the benefit of the doubt. If he plays, he stays. If he's finished, it won't take long into the seasont to tell. He's a qualtiy guy and we shouldn't give up on him based on last year's D with terrible linebacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. ChumChums Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 I feel like the switch to the 3-4 is going to help some players and hurt others. I have no idea what to think of Stroud's chances. He has been a 4-3 DT his entire career, but a 5-technique D-End has a similar role in 2-gapping. The guy I think could excell as a 3-4 DE is Spencer Johnson. But Stroud's role wasn't to 2-gap in our scheme... believe it or not, he was actually our "penetrating" 3-technique, where most of the time, he was supposed to be lined up 1-on-1 over the shoulder of the LG. The cover-2 that we ran scheme doesn't call for any 2-gapping players, except for the LE (Kelsay). Kyle Williams was our NT that was supposed to take on both the C and the RG, theoretically creating a mismatch with Stroud over the LG..so it's a very different type of player that plays a 4-3 under tackle and a 3-4 5-technique. Case in point... one of the best 3-4 under tackles EVER in Warren Sapp pretty much failed as a 5-technique in Oakland's 3-4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLynchTrain Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 On the downside or not I do hope we take a flyer in the 3-4 round on a DE prospect. Stroud and Edwards (yeah he's 29 but you never know with the neck injury) are a little old/injury problems and after Spencer Johnson our depth takes a drop. It'd be nice anyways to have a 2-3 year plan so a rookie could be groomed to start in a few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 I think he IS the problem. Single or double teamed, he backpedals more than the dbs. I think he's done and Del Rio knew exactly what he was doing in getting a 3rd and a 5th for him. Yet another example of trading for an aging vet not working out. In 2008, uninjured, Stroud was the 10th best DT out of 86. http://profootballfocus.com/by_position.ph...&numgames=1 Last year, injured, 84th out of 87. That's not age, it's injury. http://profootballfocus.com/by_position.ph...&numgames=1 Stroud plays the 3-technique, and that's the guy who almost never gets doubled. Yet Stroud is almost always doubled. Think he's a great deal of the reason that Kyle Williams does so well, not to mention Aaron Schobel? Yes, he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 Call it what you will, my guess is that he will be on the bubble for making this years squad with very little chance of making the team beyond 2010. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 But Stroud's role wasn't to 2-gap in our scheme... believe it or not, he was actually our "penetrating" 3-technique, where most of the time, he was supposed to be lined up 1-on-1 over the shoulder of the LG. The cover-2 that we ran scheme doesn't call for any 2-gapping players, except for the LE (Kelsay). Kyle Williams was our NT that was supposed to take on both the C and the RG, theoretically creating a mismatch with Stroud over the LG..so it's a very different type of player that plays a 4-3 under tackle and a 3-4 5-technique. Case in point... one of the best 3-4 under tackles EVER in Warren Sapp pretty much failed as a 5-technique in Oakland's 3-4. Last year, he played a one-gap. 3 - 4 DEs also play one-gap. It's only the nose tackle who plays two-gap in a 4 - 3. As a 3 - 4 DE, also known as a 5-technique, he plays in the #5 gap. A nose tackle is called a 0-technique, because he doesn't play in a gap at all, he plays between the two one-gaps, or in other words, over the center's nose. As for Sapp, he had a solid year the year he played at 3 - 4 DE. 3 - 4 DE isn't a sacking position, so his sacks dropped a lot. To get sacks from there, you have to go around, and 300 pound guys can't do that. They put Sapp back at DT not because he wasn't doing the job at DE, but because he was more valuable at DT getting sacks. Sapp was a different kind of player than Stroud. Sapp was unbelievably fast in his first step, so 3-technique gap-rusher was a perfect position for him. Stroud is fast for his size, but not as fast as Sapp. We've never expected Stroud to do much rushing, but he's more than strong enough to stop the run at DE, which is what we will need him to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPS Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 In 2008, uninjured, Stroud was the 10th best DT out of 86. http://profootballfocus.com/by_position.ph...&numgames=1 Last year, injured, 84th out of 87. That's not age, it's injury. http://profootballfocus.com/by_position.ph...&numgames=1 Stroud plays the 3-technique, and that's the guy who almost never gets doubled. Yet Stroud is almost always doubled. Think he's a great deal of the reason that Kyle Williams does so well, not to mention Aaron Schobel? Yes, he is. I can make up some stats and grid them out to say just about anything. They have Stroud better than Ngata in that thing and 20 places higher than Jason Ferguson. Heck, as much as I like Kyle Wms, they have him listed as #4. Puhlease!!! If they had the #4 and #10 DTs, why did they have the 22nd rated rush defense?? Age IS injury. Stroud may not even make that team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPS Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 Call it what you will, my guess is that he will be on the bubble for making this years squad with very little chance of making the team beyond 2010. A voice of reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 I think he IS the problem. Single or double teamed, he backpedals more than the dbs. I think he's done and Del Rio knew exactly what he was doing in getting a 3rd and a 5th for him. Yet another example of trading for an aging vet not working out. Except that the Jags' defense was bad (23rd in yards and 24th in points last season) and the guy they expected to replace him, Rob Meier, was just released because he sucks. Stroud was playing hurt last year. And not playing inside will only help him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsfan=pain Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 I'm not going to pretend to watch old DVD's of Bills games focusing on the line of scrimmage, but it seems like common sense would point to Marcus Stroud being an underperforming player. Since he has been a Bill, our run defense has continued to be terrible. Yet, every expert/film-watcher talks about how underrated and under appreciated Kyle Williams is. Simple math tells me if you have two very good DT's, it would be hard to have such a bad run D, even if your linebackers are street free agents. I guess he played hurt last year. He will be cut next year if he doesn't step up his game this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 I think he IS the problem. Single or double teamed, he backpedals more than the dbs. I think he's done and Del Rio knew exactly what he was doing in getting a 3rd and a 5th for him. Yet another example of trading for an aging vet not working out. He played really well his first year. So much so he got a new contract. He's not ideal, but he's the best we've had at DT since Pat Williams jumped ship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SawchukBills Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 I'm not going to pretend to watch old DVD's of Bills games focusing on the line of scrimmage, but it seems like common sense would point to Marcus Stroud being an underperforming player. Since he has been a Bill, our run defense has continued to be terrible. Yet, every expert/film-watcher talks about how underrated and under appreciated Kyle Williams is. Simple math tells me if you have two very good DT's, it would be hard to have such a bad run D, even if your linebackers are street free agents. When Schobel wasn't in there, Stroud was the ONLY good player on the D-line...the switch to 3-4 and the signings and possible drafting of better players should make Stroud perform better in my opinion. Assuming he plays DE, he will have Davis/Kawika/Poz/other behind him with Williams, Edwards, draft pick next to him... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 He had a good year his first year and a down one his second. I think the move to DE will really help his game. He's probably lost some strength, so going more against a tackle will help him out. The biggest reflection of Stroud's play will be how the LBs are playing behind him. He jsut needs to take up blockers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theranter Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 Do we overate Stroud? No. We overate Pozluszny and Whitner.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 In 2008, uninjured, Stroud was the 10th best DT out of 86. http://profootballfocus.com/by_position.ph...&numgames=1 Last year, injured, 84th out of 87. That's not age, it's injury. http://profootballfocus.com/by_position.ph...&numgames=1 Stroud plays the 3-technique, and that's the guy who almost never gets doubled. Yet Stroud is almost always doubled. Think he's a great deal of the reason that Kyle Williams does so well, not to mention Aaron Schobel? Yes, he is. I agree, Stroud is not the problem when he is healthy. My take is that Jauron's and Fewell's scheme lacked discipline and the LB's were out of position and players were constantly blowing assignments against the run. Anyway, I am just happy as hell the Bills will no longer be running an outdated cover 2 scheme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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