Cookie Gilchrist--HOF?

[John Gianelli]

Cookie Gilchrist would have been better qualified for the Hall of Fame than Floyd Little, IMO. The thing is, he turned down the Canadian Football Hall of Fame. Would he turn down ours as well?

 

He was voted the fullback on the All-Time AFL team.

 

Anyone know if the Senior Committee ever considered him?

 

This was on the Wiki NFL site:

The selectors have also been criticized for their unwillingness to acknowledge Canadian Football League (CFL) experience as a factor in qualifying potential inductees. For example, Cookie Gilchrist's six straight CFL All-Star selections (followed by four consecutive AFL All-Star picks) appear to bear no weight on his consideration. The most commonly cited reason for this is because there is already a Canadian Football Hall of Fame for that purpose. This, of course, puts players who played for a shorter time in both leagues, and had success in both (such as Gilchrist and Doug Flutie), at a significant disadvantage, and only one player is in both Halls: Warren Moon. (Coach Bud Grant is also in both Halls).

[JohnC]

Cookie Gilchrist would have been better qualified for the Hall of Fame than Floyd Little, IMO. The thing is, he turned down the Canadian Football Hall of Fame. Would he turn down ours as well?

 

He was voted the fullback on the All-Time AFL team.

 

Anyone know if the Senior Committee ever considered him?

 

This was on the Wiki NFL site:

The selectors have also been criticized for their unwillingness to acknowledge Canadian Football League (CFL) experience as a factor in qualifying potential inductees. For example, Cookie Gilchrist's six straight CFL All-Star selections (followed by four consecutive AFL All-Star picks) appear to bear no weight on his consideration. The most commonly cited reason for this is because there is already a Canadian Football Hall of Fame for that purpose. This, of course, puts players who played for a shorter time in both leagues, and had success in both (such as Gilchrist and Doug Flutie), at a significant disadvantage, and only one player is in both Halls: Warren Moon. (Coach Bud Grant is also in both Halls).

 

The one place he should be in is on the stadium wall. Some people claim that the owner has a grudge against him. I'm not sure that is the case. Cookie Gilchrist and Lou Saban both should be honored by being inducted onto the stadium wall. Both Cookie and Lou were not easy personalities to deal with. But there is no doubt that both are sizeable contributors to the history of the Bills. It is time to do the right thing and honor the both of them. From what I understand Saban has a daughter who lives in the Buffalo area and Cookie is not in good health.

[Just Jack]

The selectors have also been criticized for their unwillingness to acknowledge Canadian Football League (CFL) experience as a factor in qualifying potential inductees.

The CFL game is too different from the US type pro game, size of field, number of down, number of players on the field, etc, to be considered. But experience in the US type leagues (NFL/USFL/XFL/UFL) could be considered because those games are all similar.

[Lurker]

Some people claim that the owner has a grudge against him. I'm not sure that is the case.

Ralph's a mercurial man, so anything's possible.

 

But the odds are about the same as Microsoft and Intel moving to Buffalo...

[San Jose Bills Fan]

The one place he should be in is on the stadium wall.

 

Some people claim that the owner has a grudge against him. I'm not sure that is the case.

 

Cookie Gilchrist and Lou Saban both should be honored by being inducted onto the stadium wall. Both Cookie and Lou were not easy personalities to deal with. But there is no doubt that both are sizeable contributors to the history of the Bills. It is time to do the right thing and honor the both of them. From what I understand Saban has a daughter who lives in the Buffalo area and Cookie is not in good health.

 

And what possible other reason are Saban and Cookie not on The Wall?

 

Ralph feels Saban quit on him and always had a difficult relationship with Cookie, who was and continues to be, by all accounts, a man with a sizable chip on his shoulder.

 

The thing is, Ralph should show some virtue/forgiveness and be the bigger man...take the high road...extend his hand in peace. Especially at his very advanced age, it would be nice for Ralph to show some wisdom.

 

Ralph's a multimillionaire. Cookie's a poor, dying man who contributed greatly to the Bills gloried early history.

 

I don't believe Ralph is capable of this sort of virtue. More likely he felt satisfaction when Saban passed away...that he had outlived a man he viewed as being disloyal. Just my opinion.

[Bob in STL]

Cookie Gilchrist would have been better qualified for the Hall of Fame than Floyd Little, IMO. The thing is, he turned down the Canadian Football Hall of Fame. Would he turn down ours as well?

 

He was voted the fullback on the All-Time AFL team.

 

Anyone know if the Senior Committee ever considered him?

 

This was on the Wiki NFL site:

The selectors have also been criticized for their unwillingness to acknowledge Canadian Football League (CFL) experience as a factor in qualifying potential inductees. For example, Cookie Gilchrist's six straight CFL All-Star selections (followed by four consecutive AFL All-Star picks) appear to bear no weight on his consideration. The most commonly cited reason for this is because there is already a Canadian Football Hall of Fame for that purpose. This, of course, puts players who played for a shorter time in both leagues, and had success in both (such as Gilchrist and Doug Flutie), at a significant disadvantage, and only one player is in both Halls: Warren Moon. (Coach Bud Grant is also in both Halls).

 

I do not recall that the Sr. Committee has ever considered Cookie.

 

Cookie was amazing but he retired before the AFL-NFL merger and did not play in the NFL. There are other "AFL only" players that would be considered just as deserving as Cookie. One being Tom Sestak, the leader of the Buffalo defense in their championship years. He too is on the All Time AFL Team.

 

Players on the All Time AFL team are honored in Canton, There is a very nice AFL exhibit there, so Cookie and Sestak and all the other AFL stars have a presence there. Billy Shaw is the only player ever inducted to the Pro Football Hall of Fame without ever playing in the NFL.

 

Cookie did turn down the CFL HoF. A typical thing for Cookie to do. My opinion ... CFL players should not be admitted into the AFL HoF. It is a different game and 99% of the players in that league could not make todays NFL.

 

The Stadium Wall at "The Ralph" should definitely inlcude Cookie and Lou Saban. Ralph was very upset with Saban after he quit the second time. Apparently Ralph can hold a grudge. It is a horrible shame that Lou has passed away with being honored. I do not know why Cookie is not honored, could be Ralph again?

[JohnC]

And what possible other reason are Saban and Cookie not on The Wall?

 

Ralph feels Saban quit on him and always had a difficult relationship with Cookie, who was and continues to be, by all accounts, a man with a sizable chip on his shoulder.

 

The thing is, Ralph should show some virtue/forgiveness and be the bigger man...take the high road...extend his hand in peace. Especially at his very advanced age, it would be nice for Ralph to show some wisdom.

 

Ralph's a multimillionaire. Cookie's a poor, dying man who contributed greatly to the Bills gloried early history.

 

I don't believe Ralph is capable of this sort of virtue. More likely he felt satisfaction when Saban passed away...that he had outlived a man he viewed as being disloyal. Just my opinion.

 

Needless to say I don't have much regard for Ralph Wilson. But there is an occasion when he did show a capacity for forgiveness/virtue (as you describe it.) When John Butler was dying of cancer in San Diego it is my understanding that it was Ralph who took the initiative to make peace before Butler died. It was the right thing to do, and he did it.

 

Ralph Wilson believes that others should be loyal to him. He is not as ardent on loyalty when it is directed the other way. Putting the team on the auction block when he passes instead of making arrangements to keep the franchise located where it is says a lot about his concept of loyalty.

 

Doing the right thing when you are near the end of the line should be easier than when you are younger. The right thing to do is for the owner to install both Cookie and the peripatetic Lou Saban on the Stadium Wall simply because it is the right thing to do.

[rockpile]

And what possible other reason are Saban and Cookie not on The Wall?

 

Ralph feels Saban quit on him and always had a difficult relationship with Cookie, who was and continues to be, by all accounts, a man with a sizable chip on his shoulder.

 

The thing is, Ralph should show some virtue/forgiveness and be the bigger man...take the high road...extend his hand in peace. Especially at his very advanced age, it would be nice for Ralph to show some wisdom.

 

Ralph's a multimillionaire. Cookie's a poor, dying man who contributed greatly to the Bills gloried early history.

I don't believe Ralph is capable of this sort of virtue. More likely he felt satisfaction when Saban passed away...that he had outlived a man he viewed as being disloyal. Just my opinion.

 

Saban DID quit on him - two times.

The first time was one week after winning his second AFL championship in 1965. The 1966 Bills were 9-4 without Saban, but got killed in the AFL championship game. The second time was after starting the 1976 season 2-3, leaving the Bills to finish 2-12 with Jim Ringo.

 

Saban is a member of the Greater Buffalo Sports HOF.

I do not believe Saban is NFL HOF material but I believe an argument can be made for his induction to the Bills Wall of Fame. I am not a big Ralph Wilson fan, but without knowing Wilson personally, how can you possibly believe that he got satisfaction from outliving Saban??

 

Cookie certainly was a difficult man to deal with. He was the first RB to exceed 1,000 yards in a 14 game season, but was only a Bill for three seasons. I admire him for boycotting the 1965 AFL All-Star game during the Civil Rights movement, ironically because of poor treatment of black athletes in New Orleans. All Star Boycott

 

Again I would agree he probably deserves a place on the WOF, but probably not the HOF.

 

Just my opinions.

[vorpma]

The one place he should be in is on the stadium wall. Some people claim that the owner has a grudge against him. I'm not sure that is the case. Cookie Gilchrist and Lou Saban both should be honored by being inducted onto the stadium wall. Both Cookie and Lou were not easy personalities to deal with. But there is no doubt that both are sizeable contributors to the history of the Bills. It is time to do the right thing and honor the both of them. From what I understand Saban has a daughter who lives in the Buffalo area and Cookie is not in good health.

 

Totally agree with all, it is a shame Lou Saban is not on the wall in Buffalo. Cookie I understand wants to get paid for being on the wall. Great point about Cookie in the Hall of Fame, think he is more deserving than Floyd Little.

[JohnC]

Saban DID quit on him - two times.

The first time was one week after winning his second AFL championship in 1965. The 1966 Bills were 9-4 without Saban, but got killed in the AFL championship game. The second time was after starting the 1976 season 2-3, leaving the Bills to finish 2-12 with Jim Ringo.

 

Saban is a member of the Greater Buffalo Sports HOF.

I do not believe Saban is NFL HOF material but I believe an argument can be made for his induction to the Bills Wall of Fame. I am not a big Ralph Wilson fan, but without knowing Wilson personally, how can you possibly believe that he got satisfaction from outliving Saban??

 

Cookie certainly was a difficult man to deal with. He was the first RB to exceed 1,000 yards in a 14 game season, but was only a Bill for three seasons. I admire him for boycotting the 1965 AFL All-Star game during the Civil Rights movement, ironically because of poor treatment of black athletes in New Orleans. All Star Boycott

 

Again I would agree he probably deserves a place on the WOF, but probably not the HOF.

 

Just my opinions.

 

Rockpile, Your points of view are well stated. With respect to Lou Saban I can understand why the owner was very irritated with Saban quitting on him. But putting things in perspective Saban quit on everyone, everwhere. To put it mildly Saban was a very odd person. Over the course of his lifetime he had in the range of 20 jobs or so in 20 different locations. Whenever he got exasperated with a situation he left. He probably left when he wasn't even exasperated. He had this compulsion that drove him to constantly flee what he was doing and seek out some other endeavor.

 

The bottom line is that Lou Saban had an important role with the organization in the 60s and he brought home some AFL titles. It is very easy to remember the faults that Lou Saban had. But balancing out some of the aggravating traits of the wandering HC is the fact that he had some success for an organization which has known mostly failures.

 

The owner should do the right thing and show some graciousness and forget the slights of old. The right thing to do is to put Cookie Gilchrist and Lous Saban on the Stadium Wall.

[Just Jack]

But putting things in perspective Saban quit on everyone, everwhere.

 

Yep. My alma mater, SUNY Alfred, hired him to start the football program there, and he ended up quiting about a week before the season started to go to Canton instead.

[JohnC]

Yep. My alma mater, SUNY Alfred, hired him to start the football program there, and he ended up quiting about a week before the season started to go to Canton instead.

 

When you hire a person noted for his odd behavior you shouldn't be surprised when he acts in an odd way. A side note: Georgey Steinbrenner was a very loyal friend to him. He hired him on a variety of occasions during some of his interludes.

[Bleed Bills Blue]

Ralph's a mercurial man...

Hmmm, exposure to mercury would explain a lot.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Saban DID quit on him - two times.

The first time was one week after winning his second AFL championship in 1965. The 1966 Bills were 9-4 without Saban, but got killed in the AFL championship game. The second time was after starting the 1976 season 2-3, leaving the Bills to finish 2-12 with Jim Ringo.

 

Saban is a member of the Greater Buffalo Sports HOF.

I do not believe Saban is NFL HOF material but I believe an argument can be made for his induction to the Bills Wall of Fame. I am not a big Ralph Wilson fan, but without knowing Wilson personally, how can you possibly believe that he got satisfaction from outliving Saban??

 

Cookie certainly was a difficult man to deal with. He was the first RB to exceed 1,000 yards in a 14 game season, but was only a Bill for three seasons. I admire him for boycotting the 1965 AFL All-Star game during the Civil Rights movement, ironically because of poor treatment of black athletes in New Orleans. All Star Boycott

 

Again I would agree he probably deserves a place on the WOF, but probably not the HOF.

 

Just my opinions.

 

Firstly it's clear that we mostly agree. I obviously feel and you seem to agree that both Saban and Gilchrist belong on the Bills' Wall of Fame.

 

When I stated what is bolded above, I followed it with "just my opinion." Of course I have no way of knowing this. But I do know with certainty that Ralph Wilson has held this grudge against Saban until his death, whether or not it was accompanied by "satisfaction."

 

Why else would Saban not be on the Bills' Wall of Fame after coaching them to their only two league championships in team history?

 

I don't think it's arguable that Wilson held a grudge till the end of Saban's life, or else he would have found a way to honor him.

 

As for the comment "More likely he felt satisfaction when Saban passed away...that he had outlived a man he viewed as being disloyal. Just my opinion," it was clearly conjecture and probably a cheap shot. But I view Ralph as a small, mean, petty, and vindictive man and for that, there is ample evidence. I personally do not hold grudges but I think it's clear that Ralph does.

[tennesseeboy]

http://blog.denverbroncos.com/jsaccomano/l...okie-gilchrist/

 

He really should be in the hall of fame. He had success in Denver as swell as Buffalo, made a significant impact on the civil rights movement, and played any number of his prime years in Canada. I think he makes a far better case for the hall than someone like Andre Reed or even Steve Tasker. The only comparable running back (fullback) before or since was Jim Brown.

[yungmack]

Cookie Gilchrist just might be the greatest overall football player of all time. The great Paul Brown thought enough of him that he signed him right out of high school (in western PA) and stashed him in Canada.

 

Unfortunately, Cookie's career was too erratic to qualify for the HOF. It's one of the great shames.