aristocrat Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 Saftey drafted by Dallas -- now in cincy. Best known for his role in bringing about the horse collar rule. The need for this question speaks volumes to his bust factor. Wasn't he a top 10 pick maybe 6-7 or so years ago? same year as mike williams he went a few picks after big mike. he keeps breaking his forearm ending the past few seasons early for him. the bills need to beef up the core of their team before going after a qb. we need a a couple more key guys at the tackle and lb position that can take the pressure off the incoming qb. trent can get it done with protection and a good running game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 Yeah I got the jist of it, btw roy got to 5 probowls from 02-09, missing them his rookie yr and the 2 yrs he was hurt, and requested his release from Dallas. But you're right I wouldn't consider him tops at his position. touché sir. I remembered him struggling for longer then that I thought. He was a coverage liability, and was called out by teammates in Dallas I remembered. I also watched him not find many suitors after his release. Note he was granted a Release, not traded which also gave me a negative impression of his play. Without watching a ton of cowboys ball all that added up to me thinking his play had fallen off more then it had possibly. If you've watched more of his play I certainly defer to you on the opinion. It's what I get for leaning on the media guys and not my own two eyes. I'd be curious how many of those were probowls based on rep and being on americas team vs actual play.... It just seems that he went from probowler to.... Not a probowler.... Very quickly. Just an injury problem? Did he do something to get on the badside of the media? Mostly though I was just getting at the idea of when looking at players, where they are coming from-- systems, coaches, performances of those that are prior products of that system are all factors but certainly not rules... And in the process certainly proved I haven't followed the career of Roy Williams too closely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarolinaBill Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 touché sir. I remembered him struggling for longer then that I thought. He was a coverage liability, and was called out by teammates in Dallas I remembered. I also watched him not find many suitors after his release. Note he was granted a Release, not traded which also gave me a negative impression of his play. Without watching a ton of cowboys ball all that added up to me thinking his play had fallen off more then it had possibly. If you've watched more of his play I certainly defer to you on the opinion. It's what I get for leaning on the media guys and not my own two eyes. I'd be curious how many of those were probowls based on rep and being on americas team vs actual play.... It just seems that he went from probowler to.... Not a probowler.... Very quickly. Just an injury problem? Did he do something to get on the badside of the media? Mostly though I was just getting at the idea of when looking at players, where they are coming from-- systems, coaches, performances of those that are prior products of that system are all factors but certainly not rules... And in the process certainly proved I haven't followed the career of Roy Williams too closely. Yeah he was a coverage liability, and didn't fit in wades defense. Also, probowls, meh, probably based on rep 3 of the 5 times. Theres usually not much of a market for a slow SS that can't cover, he's basically a LB with range at this point. Basicallly, he got old and outdated, FAST. That's all I got on Roy williams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 Its got some guys being drafted WAY before their projection, its very possible that iupati, spikes, could slip to #41, Personally, I would go ot in rd 1, then eric norwood the ROLB from USC, Lefevour, and go from there, I like the WR kid from Ohio, kindof a collie/welker type from what i've seen at the senior bowl practices Iupati ripped up the Senior Bowl. They say he was the best o-lineman there. He's going in the first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 I don't get why everyone is so down on Clausen in these mocks. Clausen is hands down the best QB in the draft he has been healthy (Only a minor injury in his freshman year fully healthy in his last 2 seasons), accurate (60 plus percent completion percentage in his sophomore year and 68 plus completion percentage last season), strong arm (By all accounts can make the NFL throws), quick release, and comes from a under center pro offense. Look at Sam Bradford the guy played in a spread offense, has injury issues, and has a thin frame. Why is it such a slam dunk that Bradford is the best QB in the draft. Honestly there is no way Clausen slips past Seattle at pick 6. There's always a way, and it would certainly be a dream scenario for Buffalo, but yeah, the odds are very high against it happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 hate to burst your bubble but a lot of the experts are saying they would not take any of the QB's in this draft in the first round. in reality is a bad year to be needing a QB and that is the reality of the situation! LINK? I haven't heard one guy say that. Can you produce two or three? Or are you just listening to one weirdo howling in the wilderness because you agree with him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 I don't get how Quinn is a knock on Clausen. Quinn is far from a finished product in the NFL so to call Quinn a bust isn't accurate and Clausen is just a different circumstance all together. Just because Carson Palmer was a good pro QB (Before the injury although he rebounded a bit this season) doesn't mean Matt Leinhart or Mark Sanchez is going to be good in the NFL. The soft schedule is a concern BUT the surrounding talent on the team isn't the team had one of their best WR's hurt early in the year and the offensive line sucked. So I think that while the schedule was soft it wasn't like Clausen was elevated much or at all by his surrounding cast. So I think that a soft schedule is really the only concern about Clausen but is it enough to put Bradford who is way too thin, injury prone, and plays out of the spread ahead of him. Clausen comes with concerns but they are not that bad when compared to Bradfords. Quinn's history really isn't a legitimate knock on Clausen, but he wasn't asked about legitimate knocks, just knocks, and lots of fans associate any two QBs from the same college, though it doesn't really make sense. It's not something NFL talent evaluators do, but fans do it a lot, and the pundits are selling to the fans, so they do it too. Quinn's completion percentage is well below Clausen's, and so is his YPA. Quinn had more INTs, and Clausen improved each year, whereas Quinn had a better second season than his third. They aren't the same guy, Clausen's career was much better. Most pundits are putting Clausen ahead of Bradford, but that may be a result of the injury and the unsureness that surrounds it. Things might shake up if Bradford proves healthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 From Draft Huddle they did a Clausen - Bradford comparison- "The individual record for both quarterbacks vs ranked opponents is eye-opening. Clausen is 0-10 vs. ranked opponents while Bradford is 8-3 vs ranked opponents. In addition to playing more ranked opponents, the average margin of victory over ranked opponents is 23 points for Oklahoma. In addition to this statistic, in 2008, Oklahoma went on a three game stretch scoring over 60+ points vs. the #2, #12, and #13 teams in the NCAA. Clausen and Notre Dame's average loss to ranked opponents is: 15.8 points. Bradford (+) Anyone blaming Clausen for Notre Dame's wins and losses is missing the point. Give him a major portion of the blame for Notre Dame's offensive production, but blaming him for their defensive deficiencies is borderline idiotic. Sounds like Draft Huddle might not be the deepest of thinkers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 1) They both played for Weis and had their best seasons. their # are almost identical. Say what you want to about Weis but he is great at developing QBs. Quinn may turn out better than he is now but i have my doubts. So, IMO, it is a concern if ND is just a QB friendly system where a lot of guys could succeed in. 2) All those teams you named aren't good and have soft defenses. USC had a very down year, especially defensively. 3) Go to Rivals.com. ND has had a top 10 recruiting class every year since JC has been there. Floyd is an elite college receiver and Randolf is a very good TE. Notre Dame has a lot of talent at the skill position. Their numbers are almost identical? 61% completions vs. 68% in their senior years? 7.34 YPA vs. 8.76 in their senior years? 7 INTs vs. 4 INTs in their senior years? That is very far from identical. Clausen consistently took more chances (outstanding YPA) and yet threw for a higher percentage and had just above half the INTs. There is just no way you can call these even close to identical. Clausen was just a lot better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 Exactly! if Mallett and Locker were available this draft Bradford and Clausen would be your 3rd and 4th choices. Mallett's completion percentage this year: 55%. YPA: 9.0 INTs: 7 Locker's completion percentage this year: 58% YPA: 7.09 INTs: 11 Clausen's completion percentage this year: 68% YPA: 8.76 INTs: 4 Considering that you generally want a QB to have at least a 60% completion percentage (the Parcells standard), it is extremely doubtful whether either of those two guys would have been drafted ahead of Clausen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarolinaBill Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 Iupati ripped up the Senior Bowl. They say he was the best o-lineman there. He's going in the first. Few and far between are the times a GUARD is taken in the first round, I am well aware how his senior bowl week is going, and that mayock projects him able to kick out to LT. But what I said was its POSSIBLE that he could be there, that's all, possible, maybe not probable, but simply, possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarolinaBill Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 LINK? I haven't heard one guy say that. Can you produce two or three? Or are you just listening to one weirdo howling in the wilderness because you agree with him? It's a legit statement, Clausen's attitude has turned off quite a few people apparently, and Bradford's question mark health, and long term durability knock him out of rd 1 IF AND ONLY IF there were actual top grade qb's in this class, which there aren't. Heard that almost verbatim on sirius NFL radio today. However, since they are the best of the worst so to speak, somebody is going to overpay for "inferior" talent, I just hope it's not us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bananathumb Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 Point is, you don't take an iffy QB at #9 when there are sure-fire OTs like Davis and Bulaga or LBs like McClain available. Bills cannot afford another miss in first round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 Iupati ripped up the Senior Bowl. They say he was the best o-lineman there. He's going in the first. He did? When was that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VADC Bills Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 He did? When was that? They haven't played the Senior bowl yet. It's this weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 Their numbers are almost identical? 61% completions vs. 68% in their senior years? 7.34 YPA vs. 8.76 in their senior years? 7 INTs vs. 4 INTs in their senior years? That is very far from identical. Clausen consistently took more chances (outstanding YPA) and yet threw for a higher percentage and had just above half the INTs. There is just no way you can call these even close to identical. Clausen was just a lot better. More #s you forgot to mention: - Tds passes - Quinn 37 vs. JC 28 - Wins - Quinn 10 vs. JC 6 - Games agaisnt top 25 teams (at the time) Quinn 5 vs. JC 3 I'm not trying to Clausen but a lot of you are way off base to think the Quinn comparison isn't a valid one. Tebow is judged harsher because Alex Smith has failed as a pro. Texas Tech and Florida QBs are judged harsher because they have a history of failing at the NFL level. USC QBs besides Palmer (who only played one year under Carroll and staff) have struggled to adjust to the pro game. So if you don't think Quinn's struggles should affect how you view Clausen, you're wrong. Weis has a very QB friendly system. I also believe both of Clausen's receivers will be much better NFL receivers than Quinn's (thoguh Jeff S is a pitcher now but I don't think he was going to be an elite receiver). I have nothign against Clausen but I guarantee Quinn's lack of success has been mentioned in regards to Clausen during the evaluation process by most NFL teams. You'd be dumb not to consider it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chas56 Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 Point is, you don't take an iffy QB at #9 when there are sure-fire OTs like Davis and Bulaga or LBs like McClain available. Bills cannot afford another miss in first round. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 Few and far between are the times a GUARD is taken in the first round, I am well aware how his senior bowl week is going, and that mayock projects him able to kick out to LT. But what I said was its POSSIBLE that he could be there, that's all, possible, maybe not probable, but simply, possible. The Bills took one in the first in the first a number of years ago and that turned out just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 Mallett's completion percentage this year: 55%. YPA: 9.0 INTs: 7Locker's completion percentage this year: 58% YPA: 7.09 INTs: 11 Clausen's completion percentage this year: 68% YPA: 8.76 INTs: 4 Considering that you generally want a QB to have at least a 60% completion percentage (the Parcells standard), it is extremely doubtful whether either of those two guys would have been drafted ahead of Clausen. 1) Trent Edwards set a NFL record for highest completion % for a 2nd year QB. It's an overrated stat. 2) Both Mallett and Locker were in their first years under a new coach/ system. Clausen was in his 3rd year with the same coach and system. I'm predicting both RM and JL will have much higher #s this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berndogg Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 I'm not trying to Clausen You're definitely trying to clausen, I know you are. Stop lying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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