Jerry Jabber Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 With Perry Fewell taking the Giants DC position and Buddy Nix stating he like big physical linemen, will the 3-4 return to Buffalo? I hope so, our best defenses have been the 3-4. I'm glad that the Tampon 2 will be done away with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HelloNewman Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 Amen...cannot stand that boring defense. Worked in Tampa when they had a good DL ,but up here small and fast gets you nowhere except injured and 32nd ranked at stopping the run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsZubaz Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 With Perry Fewell taking the Giants DC position and Buddy Nix stating he like big physical linemen, will the 3-4 return to Buffalo? I hope so, our best defenses have been the 3-4. I'm glad that the Tampon 2 will be done away with. Don't make assumptions that the Tampa 2 will go away. This will depend entirely on who Buddy Nix hires as a head coach. BTW I fail to understand why people associate the Tampa 2 with small players. This was a preference and philosophy of the old regime. Many teams, such as the Vikings and Bears run the Cover 2 with larger defenders. Pat Williams, Kevin Williams and Jared Allen are all larger linemen. In Chicago Urlacher and Briggs are good sized LBs. (These are just quick examples of names). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
....lybob Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 isn't there anything between the tampa 2 and a 3-4 defense? whatever happened to the old fashion beat you to death 4-3 that Chicago and Philly use to play- that's what I vote for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 With Perry Fewell taking the Giants DC position and Buddy Nix stating he like big physical linemen, will the 3-4 return to Buffalo? I hope so, our best defenses have been the 3-4. I'm glad that the Tampon 2 will be done away with. Not if Frazier comes in. He runs the Cover 2 in Minnesota. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie2times Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 does anybody realize you need very specific players to run a 3-4, and the the previous cover 2 provides players who are about as far from 3-4 players as any other system you could run? One thing I can guarantee, we won't be running the 3-4 next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Jabber Posted January 15, 2010 Author Share Posted January 15, 2010 I miss the 3-4 when we had Washington/P. Williams in the late 90's, then P.Williams/Adams this past deacde. Those were great defenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K Gun Special Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 right lets just switch right away to a completely different philosphy. You do realize that small players for a tampa 2 are REALLY small for a 3-4 where you need a big NT and big ILBs. Just sayin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HansLanda Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 next year it's break but don't bend... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 I miss the 3-4 when we had Washington/P. Williams in the late 90's, then P.Williams/Adams this past deacde. Those were great defenses. That came after Buffalo switched to the 4-3. Gregg Williams was hired after the 2001 season, switched to the 4-3, and it was during the offseason following the 2002 season that Buffalo signed Sam Adams. In fact, Buffalo's best defensive ranking of the decade came in 2003 and 2004 (2nd), when they ran the 4-3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Jabber Posted January 15, 2010 Author Share Posted January 15, 2010 Okay, so we're supoose to stick with a defense that ranks almost dead last against the run? Even Buddy Nix said smaller faster linemen work in a dome like with Indy, but you need Big, physical linemen which is why SD was able to have a winning record over the last few years over the Colts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Jabber Posted January 15, 2010 Author Share Posted January 15, 2010 That came after Buffalo switched to the 4-3. Gregg Williams was hired after the 2001 season, switched to the 4-3, and it was during the offseason following the 2002 season that Buffalo signed Sam Adams. In fact, Buffalo's best defensive ranking of the decade came in 2003 and 2004 (2nd), when they ran the 4-3. My mistake, thanks for the correction. I like Stroud & Williams, but I don't know if they're the answer to solving our run defense problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgrid Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 I like Stroud & Williams, but I don't know if they're the answer to solving our run defense problems. LB upgrade would be a start. Like McClain... Should stay w/ 4-3. NT's for the 3-4 are in high demand, where 4-3 DT's are more available as more teams go to 3-4. Just because you're running 4-3, doesnt mean you have to run Cover 2 scheme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsZubaz Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 Okay, so we're supoose to stick with a defense that ranks almost dead last against the run? Even Buddy Nix said smaller faster linemen work in a dome like with Indy, but you need Big, physical linemen which is why SD was able to have a winning record over the last few years over the Colts. What about in Chicago? They run the Cover 2...are they dead last against the run? What about Minnesota? THE COVER 2 does not mean smaller players and poor run play like the Bills and the Colts. This is just how the scheme was adapted to fit the philosophies of these programs.... Yes, the Bills SUCKED against the run. That is because of the personnel that was brought in and the coaching. Not the scheme. (And for the record I want to switch from the Cover 2 as well) I just don't like the misconceptions people have about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvermike Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 The knock on the 3-4 when it went out of style in the 90s was that it was weak against the run. And a lot of the other worst rushing defenses are 3-4s: Kansas City, Cleveland, Arizona, San Diego, and New England all had bottom-10 rushing defenses. It also put together a similar number of the top 10 defenses against the run. As it turns out, scheme isn't destiny. It's about the talent, and a coach who can match a scheme to his talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RkFast Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 Id like to see a head coach brought in who runs the tampa 2, doesnt wear a headset but wears a headband and gloves. That would make 3/4 of WNY's head explode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 My mistake, thanks for the correction. I like Stroud & Williams, but I don't know if they're the answer to solving our run defense problems. I hear you, but I actually think it's less of a personnel problem on the DL as much as it is a combination of (1) a philosophy that doesn't match the personnel and (2) substandard personnel at LB. I'll admit that I'm an amatuer when it comes to diagnosing assignments on any given play, but when I watch other teams--even other Tampa-2 teams--they don't play the run the same way as Buffalo. You never see Minnesota and Chicago run schemes where their DTs are constantly trying to shoot gaps upfield instead of tying up blockers and holding their ground. Granted, there are specific plays where the DTs are trying to penetrate a specific gap on the OL, but Buffalo's DTs seem to be doing it on every play. Often times, the opposition just runs a delay or a counter, which allows the interior of the OL to just let the DT take himself out of the play, and the RB adjusts his cut accordingly. It's specifically noticable against teams like the Jets and Panthers, that base their entire offense on running the football. Now I suspect that some of the Bills' run defense deficiency comes from a lack of playmaking LBs (Poz is above average, but highly inconsistent, in my opinion). Perhaps an injection of youth at the position would help. I've also noticed that this team is pretty deficient in tackling ability. When you watch teams like Baltimore, NYJ, Minnesota, these teams tackle very well. Buffalo does not. Just my 1 cent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moovemtooelay Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 at this point I couldnt careless who the coach is. I just dont want to see that stupid tampa 2 defense anymore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 I hear you, but I actually think it's less of a personnel problem on the DL as much as it is a combination of (1) a philosophy that doesn't match the personnel and (2) substandard personnel at LB. I'll admit that I'm an amatuer when it comes to diagnosing assignments on any given play, but when I watch other teams--even other Tampa-2 teams--they don't play the run the same way as Buffalo. You never see Minnesota and Chicago run schemes where their DTs are constantly trying to shoot gaps upfield instead of tying up blockers and holding their ground. Granted, there are specific plays where the DTs are trying to penetrate a specific gap on the OL, but Buffalo's DTs seem to be doing it on every play. Often times, the opposition just runs a delay or a counter, which allows the interior of the OL to just let the DT take himself out of the play, and the RB adjusts his cut accordingly. It's specifically noticable against teams like the Jets and Panthers, that base their entire offense on running the football. Now I suspect that some of the Bills' run defense deficiency comes from a lack of playmaking LBs (Poz is above average, but highly inconsistent, in my opinion). Perhaps an injection of youth at the position would help. I've also noticed that this team is pretty deficient in tackling ability. When you watch teams like Baltimore, NYJ, Minnesota, these teams tackle very well. Buffalo does not. Just my 1 cent. Agree with every point you said there Bandit. This team has sub par LB's that are slower than they should be considering they are undersized. Mitchell and Ellison both suck. Ellison will not be back next year as hes a FA and hopefully they make Mitchell a backup. Poz is decent but you are correct, he is inconsistant and generally behind a few steps. With a stronger group around him he may be better IMO. I think you could move Maybin to OLB in either a 3-4 or a 4-3 and be good with that. I dont know if we will not see a switch right away. They did it in Denver in 1 season and it wasnt too bad. Depends on what the new coach brings in for FA and in the draft. If they go all defense in the draft they could make the switch IMO. Depends on what they want to do. Not saying its right either way, but it could, and has been done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bisonbrigade Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 The Bills should just play in the Dime defense next year. There best defense players are DB's anyhow. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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