silvermike Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Not for nothing, but Frazier's defense in Minnesota has been dominant against the run: 2009: 3.9 yards/attempt (T-5), 1394 yards (2), 5 TDs (T-1) 2008: 3.3 yards/attempt (T-1), 1230 yards (1), 10 TDs (T-6) 2007: 3.1 yards/attempt (1), 1185 yards (1), 7 TDs (T-2) For comparison's sake, the 2009 Bills gave up 4.7 yards/attempt, 19 TDs, and 2501 yards. It's about having talent on the defensive line and the ability to use it. If you get two or three great defensive linemen, it doesn't matter what scheme you play behind it. If the Bills hire Frazier, hopefully he's learned that lesson and will lean hard on Buddy to sign, trade, and draft the best DLs out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K Gun Special Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Not for nothing, but Frazier's defense in Minnesota has been dominant against the run: 2009: 3.9 yards/attempt (T-5), 1394 yards (2), 5 TDs (T-1) 2008: 3.3 yards/attempt (T-1), 1230 yards (1), 10 TDs (T-6) 2007: 3.1 yards/attempt (1), 1185 yards (1), 7 TDs (T-2) For comparison's sake, the 2009 Bills gave up 4.7 yards/attempt, 19 TDs, and 2501 yards. It's about having talent on the defensive line and the ability to use it. If you get two or three great defensive linemen, it doesn't matter what scheme you play behind it. If the Bills hire Frazier, hopefully he's learned that lesson and will lean hard on Buddy to sign, trade, and draft the best DLs out there. Oh no do not try to use facts on this msg board mr smarty pants. People opinions count more than reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scbillfan1 Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Not for nothing, but Frazier's defense in Minnesota has been dominant against the run: 2009: 3.9 yards/attempt (T-5), 1394 yards (2), 5 TDs (T-1) 2008: 3.3 yards/attempt (T-1), 1230 yards (1), 10 TDs (T-6) 2007: 3.1 yards/attempt (1), 1185 yards (1), 7 TDs (T-2) For comparison's sake, the 2009 Bills gave up 4.7 yards/attempt, 19 TDs, and 2501 yards. It's about having talent on the defensive line and the ability to use it. If you get two or three great defensive linemen, it doesn't matter what scheme you play behind it. If the Bills hire Frazier, hopefully he's learned that lesson and will lean hard on Buddy to sign, trade, and draft the best DLs out there. Having two all pro tackles in the Williams is the reason they are great against the run. It's like having two nose tackles blocking up the middle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Yup. 2 best DTs in the league and it's not even close (as far as a tandem). I'm not saying Frazier isn't good, but you can't judge him based on run defense alone. What were the Bengals' run stats when he was coordinator there? Probably good but not nearly as good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kipers Hair Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Having two all pro tackles in the Williams is the reason they are great against the run. It's like having two nose tackles blocking up the middle. Tampa 2 is great with guys like the Williams' in Minn and Sapp and McFarland in Tampa manning the middle of your D-Line....With the high motor guys we seem to have a passion for at OBD - not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K Gun Special Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Tampa 2 is great with guys like the Williams' in Minn and Sapp and McFarland in Tampa manning the middle of your D-Line....With the high motor guys we seem to have a passion for at OBD - not so much. Ha high motor undersized white dudes. BUt what defense has studs up the middle and sucks?? regardless of the scheme? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jokeman Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Ha high motor undersized white dudes. BUt what defense has studs up the middle and sucks?? regardless of the scheme? But but but Kyle Williams made the Pro Bowl [/sarcasm]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike in Syracuse Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Why is it everyone equates the Tampa 2 with having all undersized fast guys? Just because Jauron ran it that way doesn't mean everyone will. Hell, I think if he could have Jauron would have run a Tampa 10 with 10 db's and a tackle. The Tampa 2 is primarily a coverage scheme. Frazier uses a blended version of the Tampa 2, big guys up front with a T2 scheme in the secondary. There's no reason you can't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadstroke Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Tampa 2 is great with guys like the Williams' in Minn and Sapp and McFarland in Tampa manning the middle of your D-Line....With the high motor guys we seem to have a passion for at OBD - not so much. I'm not saying he's quite as good but Kyle Williams was a Pro-Bowl alternate this year and if you check it....that ain't too shabby. What I'm saying is IF..IF we can manage to get another pretty good one along side of Williams, and believe me he's not currently on the roster, then I think we're fine up the middle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfw1234 Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Tampa 2 or not, I hope the Bills draft or sign an impact DT and 2 LBs this off season. Watch the Tide tonight - would love to get that DT & MLB combo in Buffalo!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 sign wilfork and have williams and stroud rotate and see how easy it is to run on the middle against us. i hate it when bills fans get too wrapped up in the schemes. good players and good coaches come in lots of varieties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Why is it everyone equates the Tampa 2 with having all undersized fast guys? Just because Jauron ran it that way doesn't mean everyone will. Hell, I think if he could have Jauron would have run a Tampa 10 with 10 db's and a tackle. The Tampa 2 is primarily a coverage scheme. Frazier uses a blended version of the Tampa 2, big guys up front with a T2 scheme in the secondary. There's no reason you can't Well this is a good point actually. You can (and should) run the defense with bigger guys. But it's still not an aggressive defense unless you have serious passrushers. And those are expensive. What's great about the 3-4 is that you can pay for cheap linebackers to attack from different angles and create a formidable passrush and you don't have to pay Julius Peppers $18 million. It amazes me that Ralph never figured out that the best way for him to continue to be a cheapskate would be to run the 3-4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Not for nothing, but Frazier's defense in Minnesota has been dominant against the run: 2009: 3.9 yards/attempt (T-5), 1394 yards (2), 5 TDs (T-1) 2008: 3.3 yards/attempt (T-1), 1230 yards (1), 10 TDs (T-6) 2007: 3.1 yards/attempt (1), 1185 yards (1), 7 TDs (T-2) For comparison's sake, the 2009 Bills gave up 4.7 yards/attempt, 19 TDs, and 2501 yards. It's about having talent on the defensive line and the ability to use it. If you get two or three great defensive linemen, it doesn't matter what scheme you play behind it. If the Bills hire Frazier, hopefully he's learned that lesson and will lean hard on Buddy to sign, trade, and draft the best DLs out there. 'Not for nothing', but Minnesota has Pat Williams and Antoine Winfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthICE Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Why is it everyone equates the Tampa 2 with having all undersized fast guys? Just because Jauron ran it that way doesn't mean everyone will. Hell, I think if he could have Jauron would have run a Tampa 10 with 10 db's and a tackle. The Tampa 2 is primarily a coverage scheme. Frazier uses a blended version of the Tampa 2, big guys up front with a T2 scheme in the secondary. There's no reason you can't the only thing a tampon2 does vs a normal cover 2 is drop the Mike LB deep into coverage to take away the gap between the safetys. Also if anyone watches the vikes, Frazier will blitz the **** out of teams with his LB's that is NOT a normal 'tampa 2' Now for those asking 'why Frazier'? Simple, the guy has seen and been part of what it takes to build a playoff caliber team. He knows what works and what doesn't (time in Cinci) You can bet your ass if he is HC we will have a stud Defense, the OL will be fixed and we get a damn good QB in here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RkFast Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 So its the players who have to execute the system put in place and inversely, the system has to have the proper personel to work properly. Some deep thinking going on at TBD these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLZFAN4LIFE Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Yup. 2 best DTs in the league and it's not even close (as far as a tandem). I'm not saying Frazier isn't good, but you can't judge him based on run defense alone. What were the Bengals' run stats when he was coordinator there? Probably good but not nearly as good. When I heard we were talking to Frazier, that's what I thought as well. If we hire him, he better be able to bring the Williams', Jared Allen, and Antoine Winfield with him. Might as well throw in the Vikings O-line and Adrian Peterson while we are at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvermike Posted January 7, 2010 Author Share Posted January 7, 2010 When I heard we were talking to Frazier, that's what I thought as well. If we hire him, he better be able to bring the Williams', Jared Allen, and Antoine Winfield with him. Might as well throw in the Vikings O-line and Adrian Peterson while we are at it. Isn't that true of pretty much any coach that has had success in the past? Can Cowher bring Bettis and Joey Porter? Will Marty come with Tomlinson and Rivers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLZFAN4LIFE Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Isn't that true of pretty much any coach that has had success in the past? Can Cowher bring Bettis and Joey Porter? Will Marty come with Tomlinson and Rivers? Come to think of it, I actually don't see too many head coaches making tackles or throwing TD's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VADC Bills Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Tampa 2 or not, I hope the Bills draft or sign an impact DT and 2 LBs this off season. Watch the Tide tonight - would love to get that DT & MLB combo in Buffalo!!! Totally agree. Coaches that run any defense well know it's the talent and not the scheme. We need 2 starting LB's as you indicated and a stud DT. McLain would be a nice start. I have seen posters that feel that if we get a good OLB, we are set. We need 3 talented LB's. We can settle for two being signed or drafted and let the existing three starters fight it out for the final spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fewell733 Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Kyle Williams is very good. People that say otherwise must not watch the games. He certainly wasn't named a pro-bowl alternate based on fan votes. just cause Frazier has run a Tampa 2 doesn't mean he'll run it with runts. He also has experience in more attacking defenses - he coached under Jim Johnson in Philly for 3 seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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