Worst Move of the 2000's (of many)

[DFITZ1]

With Demitrius Bell now on IR, and the team rapidly approaching another dubious record of most players on IR (set in 2007, DJ year 1, surprise, surprise), this elevates the standing of letting Rusty Jones go as a ding-dong move by the front office.

 

In any successful business, legitimate effort is made to keep the best people. Since Jones was WIDELY recognized as the best strength and conditioning coach in teh NFL (and all sports for that matter), the only sensible action is keeping this prized asset. After Donahoe, Williams and RW's closed eyes let him go, injuries and conditioning issues increased. Then under Jauron-ball, conditioning was an afterthought (perhaps the reason players loved playing for DJ was because he didn't make them work on conditioning - i.e. soft). I know injuries are part of the game (eg. Wood) but all these muscle pulls and strains go beyond statistics.

 

If there is a new front office (please), get the best and keep them (within $$$ reason). Donahoe and Williams let Jones go because they believed in the NFL's patronage structure more than performance. Getting rid of top personnel because they're "not your guy" is clear path to mediocrity.

[Fewell733]

this thread seems to be started every other day here.

 

I liked Rusty, but if he was so fantastic wouldn't the Bears not be marred by injuries every year?

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

this thread seems to be started every other day here.

 

I liked Rusty, but if he was so fantastic wouldn't the Bears not be marred by injuries every year?

 

Also, can you really blame broken bones on not having Rusty? (e.g., Poz, Wood)

 

I like to blame our injuries on a combination of bad luck and scheme; if you have a defensive scheme that features small, undersized players, those smaller players are probably going to get smushed a lot. Seems like the Colts and Bears defenses--which are similar to our defense-- are beset by injuries, as well.

[DFITZ1]

Also, can you really blame broken bones on not having Rusty? (e.g., Poz, Wood)

 

I like to blame our injuries on a combination of bad luck and scheme; if you have a defensive scheme that features small, undersized players, those smaller players are probably going to get smushed a lot. Seems like the Colts and Bears defenses--which are similar to our defense-- are beset by injuries, as well.

 

In my post I did NOT blame broken bones on conditioning. This isn't an easy topic to evaluate as there are a lot of factors to consider, such as size and schemes, as you mentioned. But the statistical impression I've had over the years is the 2000 teams are more injury prone than the 1990's. Also, with 17 on IR in 2007 and 15 this year, those numbers show a frequency soshort in time that S&C should be on notice. Thurman Thomas said recently that his teamates swore by Jones programs, and the low frequency of injuries in teh 90's is testimony.

[Sisyphean Bills]

Also, can you really blame broken bones on not having Rusty? (e.g., Poz, Wood)

 

I like to blame our injuries on a combination of bad luck and scheme; if you have a defensive scheme that features small, undersized players, those smaller players are probably going to get smushed a lot. Seems like the Colts and Bears defenses--which are similar to our defense-- are beset by injuries, as well.

Well, the game is tackle football. Having bigger, stronger players that can pancake and blow up the other team's smaller weaklings has only worked, oh, since the 1840s or so.

[sharper802]

In my post I did NOT blame broken bones on conditioning. This isn't an easy topic to evaluate as there are a lot of factors to consider, such as size and schemes, as you mentioned. But the statistical impression I've had over the years is the 2000 teams are more injury prone than the 1990's. Also, with 17 on IR in 2007 and 15 this year, those numbers show a frequency soshort in time that S&C should be on notice. Thurman Thomas said recently that his teamates swore by Jones programs, and the low frequency of injuries in teh 90's is testimony.

Conlan, Henry Jones, Cowart, Biscuit, and many others were oft injured in the 90's. Remember the infamous "hole in biscuit's shoulder". The offense didn't have many injuries...oh wait didn't Kelly injure his knee before the playoffs.... but then again they ended up in the endzone so often they didn't get tackled much.

 

While it would be nice to blame DJ for the injuries it is unfortunately mostly bad luck. If Wood is one step farther up field he probably isn't injured. Brad Butler again wrong place wrong time. While I tend to agree bigger DE's and LB's probably helps over the long run, however getting off the field on third down and thus not having to play at least three more downs is more important. Talent, speed, and size are all that can be controlled - the rest is good/bad luck.

[The Big Cat]

Freddy Got Fingered.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh, MOOOOOOOOOOOVE.

[DFITZ1]

Conlan, Henry Jones, Cowart, Biscuit, and many others were oft injured in the 90's. Remember the infamous "hole in biscuit's shoulder". The offense didn't have many injuries...oh wait didn't Kelly injure his knee before the playoffs.... but then again they ended up in the endzone so often they didn't get tackled much.

 

While it would be nice to blame DJ for the injuries it is unfortunately mostly bad luck. If Wood is one step farther up field he probably isn't injured. Brad Butler again wrong place wrong time. While I tend to agree bigger DE's and LB's probably helps over the long run, however getting off the field on third down and thus not having to play at least three more downs is more important. Talent, speed, and size are all that can be controlled - the rest is good/bad luck.

 

Were there 15 players on IR any season during the 90's? No. Were there injuries? Yes. However, bad luck might only account for the league average on IR. Lack of better conditioning accounts for the rest. It was a decent conditioning program that turned Bruce Smith from a 300 lb average DE to a 270 lb hall of famer. Also, conditioning feeds into fewer injuries for all the reasons mentioned in this thread: players are stronger, quicker, better toned, play better, and have more endurance.

 

Sure, luck plays a role in teh injury count, but the Bills volume of injuries over teh past years suggests its more than just dumb luck.

[PushthePile]

A strength and conditioning coach has little to do with a teams injury report. The game is a business and players have millions riding on their ability to stay healthy. A teams strength coach assists the team in many ways but overall conditioning is up to the individual. Alot of these guys have their own professionals on their payroll. Rusty Jones would not be writing up a routine for TO or anyone else.

 

Jauron is too blame for alot of things but injuries are not one of them. The time spent in practice is certainly not for conditioning. The players come to camp in fantastic shape and work into game shape very quickly.

 

This argument reminds me of the whole practicing inside theory. They are a bit of a reach IMO.

 

Players that seem to get hurt IMO are usually prone to injuries, inferior in talent, or are undersized for their position. No great secret.

[RayFinkle]

A strength and conditioning coach has little to do with a teams injury report. The game is a business and players have millions riding on their ability to stay healthy. A teams strength coach assists the team in many ways but overall conditioning is up to the individual. Alot of these guys have their own professionals on their payroll. Rusty Jones would not be writing up a routine for TO or anyone else....

You couldn't be more wrong. Listen to a Rueben Brown interview when he talks about Rusty...

[Webster Guy]

When Urlacher won NFL defensive player of the year award in 2005, the FIRST person he thanked was Rusty Jones. Greg Williams loved the guy, it wasn't his call that was Donaho ho ho. Rusty and Pat Williams. Who needs em.........

[Orton's Arm]

"As God as my witness, I thought turkeys could fly." - "Big Guy" Arthur Carlson WKRP

Just noticed your sig. I've seen wild turkeys fly short distances. And I've seen them manage to fly up into trees.

 

Getting back to the subject of this thread, I agree that good conditioning is an important part of avoiding injuries. Whether it's being more flexible, or being less likely to strain a hamstring, it's important. Also, if you're really tired it's easy to get a little sloppy, and to not do the little things that can help prevent injury.

[nucci]

This team has much bigger problems than the conditioning coach.

[DFITZ1]

A strength and conditioning coach has little to do with a teams injury report. The game is a business and players have millions riding on their ability to stay healthy. A teams strength coach assists the team in many ways but overall conditioning is up to the individual. Alot of these guys have their own professionals on their payroll. Rusty Jones would not be writing up a routine for TO or anyone else.

 

Jauron is too blame for alot of things but injuries are not one of them. The time spent in practice is certainly not for conditioning. The players come to camp in fantastic shape and work into game shape very quickly.

 

This argument reminds me of the whole practicing inside theory. They are a bit of a reach IMO.

 

Players that seem to get hurt IMO are usually prone to injuries, inferior in talent, or are undersized for their position. No great secret.

 

However a good S&C coach can make a player less prone to injury, build muscle (not fat) to size them for their position, improve their talent (eg Bruce Smith). Agreed, a S&C coach will not eliminate injuries, but can lower them. Jauron was here for the two highest injury years. I'm also willing to bet that TO would buy into a Rusty Jones conditioning program. Several HOF'ers did.

[Kingfish]

However a good S&C coach can make a player less prone to injury, build muscle (not fat) to size them for their position, improve their talent (eg Bruce Smith). Agreed, a S&C coach will not eliminate injuries, but can lower them. Jauron was here for the two highest injury years. I'm also willing to bet that TO would buy into a Rusty Jones conditioning program. Several HOF'ers did.

 

I doubt that, TO strikes me as a David Boston type.

[Ghost of Rob Johnson]

Also, can you really blame broken bones on not having Rusty? (e.g., Poz, Wood)

Right, or torn ligaments/tendons? (e.g. Butler, Mitchell) If they were having pulled muscles or things of that nature I might agree.

[PushthePile]

You couldn't be more wrong. Listen to a Rueben Brown interview when he talks about Rusty...

Whatever type of relationship Rusty and Rueben had does not counter the fact that most players condition themselves individually. They pay big money to work with advanced trainers at facilities that are specifically designed for pro-athletes. Sorry but the Rusty Jones thing is just a fantasy.

[PushthePile]

However a good S&C coach can make a player less prone to injury, build muscle (not fat) to size them for their position, improve their talent (eg Bruce Smith). Agreed, a S&C coach will not eliminate injuries, but can lower them. Jauron was here for the two highest injury years. I'm also willing to bet that TO would buy into a Rusty Jones conditioning program. Several HOF'ers did.

Link? It's just not the case. NFL players today condition themselves everywhere but with the team.

[Mr. WEO]

Whatever type of relationship Rusty and Rueben had does not counter the fact that most players condition themselves individually. They pay big money to work with advanced trainers at facilities that are specifically designed for pro-athletes. Sorry but the Rusty Jones thing is just a fantasy.

I agree. the Bills have, as do all NFL teams, a S and C coach and world class training facilities. If these guys chose not to keep in shape in the off-season, that's their fault. Ijuries happening late in the season tend to be the catastrphic type (bones, ACLs, etc.). A lot of these guys are done early on becausee they aren't in football shape.

 

If the owners were wise, the next CBA (if there ever is another one) should make NFL football a year round job (gasp!). There should be mandatory conditioning year round. Many of these injuries would never occur if this was the case. You wouldn't need, specifically, a "Rusty Jones" to keep guys in shape.

[Red]

Also, can you really blame broken bones on not having Rusty? (e.g., Poz, Wood)

 

I like to blame our injuries on a combination of bad luck and scheme; if you have a defensive scheme that features small, undersized players, those smaller players are probably going to get smushed a lot. Seems like the Colts and Bears defenses--which are similar to our defense-- are beset by injuries, as well.

 

Excellent points.

 

I loved Rusty Jones, as during that time, the Bills had the talent to be in the Super Bowl every year, and the club used every edge it could to dominate (like the weather).

 

This team is beset by SO many things beyond conditioning (Ellison not suited to be a starting NFL linebacker, having safeties play LB, etc), but it is primarily the scheme that is to blame.

 

The 'Tampa 2', zone defense is hopefully dead once Fewell leaves. Having bigger lines, a bigger LB corp, and a better overall scheme will serve to lower these injuries of sheer forces and collision.