News regarding the San Diego Chargers

[Got_Wood]

Read the city residents reaction in the comments below the article. They are tired of the greed in the NFL, and are basically saying "adios" to the Chargers. I happen to agree that the NFL has gotten extremely greedy, and is becoming a rich man's game. When do people say enough is enough? Pretty interesting development...

 

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2009/de...-money-stadium/

[BillsVet]

Read the city residents reaction in the comments below the article. They are tired of the greed in the NFL, and are basically saying "adios" to the Chargers. I happen to agree that the NFL has gotten extremely greedy, and is becoming a rich man's game. When do people say enough is enough? Pretty interesting development...

 

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2009/de...-money-stadium/

 

You came to that conclusion that SD doesn't want the Chargers based on some reader comments after a website article? I wonder what Seahawks fans think about us after any Jerry Sullivan article.

 

Opinion polls, reader comments, and man on the street type responses are not indicative of anything besides one or a few person's/people's take. SD has an old stadium, but those 60k+ that show up probably don't agree that the team should leave if they need public assistance. And I can guarantee that if SD went away, there'd be a major problem for the Spanos family and the city.

[Sisyphean Bills]

All the CA teams are struggling with their stadiums and the argument to have a stadium built in LA has been ongoing with little traction since way before the Rams left.

 

To paraphrase an old coach, "It's tough to get a new stadium built in California."

[zonabb]

As a lifelong WNY, I'm sick of subsidizing RW's $25m a year in profit to the tune of $3M a year in taxpayer dollars. He took a $25,000 investment and using the loyalty of this fanbase and the NFL's fanbase and turned it into, by some accounts, a $900M entity. The continual taxpayer subsidies of teams like the Jets and Giants and Dallas Cowboys (JJ is a complete ahole saying that revenue sharing is on its way out and no longer going to happen while he took $350M in subsidies from willing taxpayers for his new stadium). Sorry but I'm open to this team leaving. See ya. Bye. Adios. Part of it is downrigfht hatred for the greed of the new neoliberal NFL, part is that $3M would be better spent elsewhere in this community, and part is sick of the owner and his greed and whining about how this city isn;t worth it anymore. Take you football and go home. I for one don't judge myself and this city based on the football team. My, and our, identity is not this team. Maybe if they left, we could focus on making the community better instead of using the team as an unfortunate distraction away from the issues that should be talked about in forums.

 

And I'm a season ticket holder, so it's not that I just hate the team and the owner. I support them financially as a ticket buyer and as a taxpayer. But I'm sick of the record profits, record TV contracts, semi-literate millionaires acting like children and whining about money as "respect," the game of owners and players argung over how to split billions of dollars in revenue while holding fans hostage, the $75 parking prices at NFL stadiums, $10 beers, $5 hot dogs, etc.

 

This is my last year supprting this team. I just can't get to a place where it matters to me anymore. So when they're ready to move, I'll gladly show up to the stadium and help pack the truck.

 

And I wanted to add in repsonse to the post above about the Chargers leaving being a "big problem" for the city. Yeah, research continues to show that subsidizing professional sports has minimal economic return and that it's largely just a political handout as teams are considered more of a symbol of a city than an economic engine. Basically asking taxpayers for a subsidy for a new stadium is akin to the owner saying "Hey, I want the average over-taxed, underemployed Joe to pay monmey to ensure I make millions in profit." The NFL is highly profitable because it was able to leverage public subsidies into marketing to grow the brand on our backs. Then after they grew on new stadiums and hype, they hit us up for personal seat license and disgustingly high ticket prices.

[grammer_police]

As a lifelong WNY, I'm sick of subsidizing RW's $25m a year in profit to the tune of $3M a year in taxpayer dollars. He took a $25,000 investment and using the loyalty of this fanbase and the NFL's fanbase and turned it into, by some accounts, a $900M entity. The continual taxpayer subsidies of teams like the Jets and Giants and Dallas Cowboys (JJ is a complete ahole saying that revenue sharing is on its way out and no longer going to happen while he took $350M in subsidies from willing taxpayers for his new stadium). Sorry but I'm open to this team leaving. See ya. Bye. Adios. Part of it is downrigfht hatred for the greed of the new neoliberal NFL, part is that $3M would be better spent elsewhere in this community, and part is sick of the owner and his greed and whining about how this city isn;t worth it anymore. Take you football and go home. I for one don't judge myself and this city based on the football team. My, and our, identity is not this team. Maybe if they left, we could focus on making the community better instead of using the team as an unfortunate distraction away from the issues that should be talked about in forums.

 

And I'm a season ticket holder, so it's not that I just hate the team and the owner. I support them financially as a ticket buyer and as a taxpayer. But I'm sick of the record profits, record TV contracts, semi-literate millionaires acting like children and whining about money as "respect," the game of owners and players argung over how to split billions of dollars in revenue while holding fans hostage, the $75 parking prices at NFL stadiums, $10 beers, $5 hot dogs, etc.

 

This is my last year supprting this team. I just can't get to a place where it matters to me anymore. So when they're ready to move, I'll gladly show up to the stadium and help pack the truck.

 

And I wanted to add in repsonse to the post above about the Chargers leaving being a "big problem" for the city. Yeah, research continues to show that subsidizing professional sports has minimal economic return and that it's largely just a political handout as teams are considered more of a symbol of a city than an economic engine. Basically asking taxpayers for a subsidy for a new stadium is akin to the owner saying "Hey, I want the average over-taxed, underemployed Joe to pay monmey to ensure I make millions in profit." The NFL is highly profitable because it was able to leverage public subsidies into marketing to grow the brand on our backs. Then after they grew on new stadiums and hype, they hit us up for personal seat license and disgustingly high ticket prices.

 

 

 

wow

[billsfanmiami(oh)]

As a lifelong WNY, I'm sick of subsidizing RW's $25m a year in profit to the tune of $3M a year in taxpayer dollars. He took a $25,000 investment and using the loyalty of this fanbase and the NFL's fanbase and turned it into, by some accounts, a $900M entity. The continual taxpayer subsidies of teams like the Jets and Giants and Dallas Cowboys (JJ is a complete ahole saying that revenue sharing is on its way out and no longer going to happen while he took $350M in subsidies from willing taxpayers for his new stadium). Sorry but I'm open to this team leaving. See ya. Bye. Adios. Part of it is downrigfht hatred for the greed of the new neoliberal NFL, part is that $3M would be better spent elsewhere in this community, and part is sick of the owner and his greed and whining about how this city isn;t worth it anymore. Take you football and go home. I for one don't judge myself and this city based on the football team. My, and our, identity is not this team. Maybe if they left, we could focus on making the community better instead of using the team as an unfortunate distraction away from the issues that should be talked about in forums.

 

And I'm a season ticket holder, so it's not that I just hate the team and the owner. I support them financially as a ticket buyer and as a taxpayer. But I'm sick of the record profits, record TV contracts, semi-literate millionaires acting like children and whining about money as "respect," the game of owners and players argung over how to split billions of dollars in revenue while holding fans hostage, the $75 parking prices at NFL stadiums, $10 beers, $5 hot dogs, etc.

 

This is my last year supprting this team. I just can't get to a place where it matters to me anymore. So when they're ready to move, I'll gladly show up to the stadium and help pack the truck.

 

And I wanted to add in repsonse to the post above about the Chargers leaving being a "big problem" for the city. Yeah, research continues to show that subsidizing professional sports has minimal economic return and that it's largely just a political handout as teams are considered more of a symbol of a city than an economic engine. Basically asking taxpayers for a subsidy for a new stadium is akin to the owner saying "Hey, I want the average over-taxed, underemployed Joe to pay monmey to ensure I make millions in profit." The NFL is highly profitable because it was able to leverage public subsidies into marketing to grow the brand on our backs. Then after they grew on new stadiums and hype, they hit us up for personal seat license and disgustingly high ticket prices.

 

 

Sorry you feel that way. I don't even live in WNY anymore but am a season ticket holder. Like MANY of the posters here, I probably end up spending a couple grand a year on "Bills related" expenses (driving to and from home games, NFL Sunday Ticket, merchandise, attending, an away game, etc.). In my adult life (I'm 25), I have gotten very little return on the investment in terms of on field product. I can understand some of your sentiments, and to other Bills fans and especially to non Bills fans, the time and financial commitment that we all give to this team seems insane. Why do we do it?

 

For me, I just love it that damn much. I spend many months of the year traveling all over the country for work. I wear Bills gear everywhere and it's lead me to many nice football conversations with complete strangers at various bars and restaurants. No matter what happens each year on the field, there's always some false sense of hope come fall. I look forward to fall Sundays all year long. Even though we suck and have sucked for some time now, it's still about my favorite thing in the world to be at the Ralph for gameday. Catching up with old friends and family, drinking beer, grilling, and throwing the ball around. What could be better? Maybe when I'm older my sentiments will change, or maybe the team will even be gone. Until then though, I'll keep buying tickets and t-shirts. Call me a fool, but I'll be having a damn good time doing it.

[LongLiveRalph]

Zonabb I'm with you man. I'm a season ticket holder, I have been since 1999, and for the last three years I've lived in FL and still have my season tix. I still LOVE the Bills, but it's getting harder and harder to support the NFL. The league has some SERIOUS issues, in my opinion, and I would say that 75% of the games on any given weekend are unwatchable. And I'm a HUGE sports fan and have always loved football. But the vast majority of the teams play a game that is dreadfully boring to sit through, to the point that the beer, truck, and boner commercials are a relief!

 

I truly think the league is not where they perceive themselves to be in the general consciousness. I could be in the minority, because I don't gamble (anymore) and I don't play fantasy football (ZERO interest.) Perhaps that would make this weekend's Chiefs-Raiders game more watchable. But as a casual fan, I have to say the league is not a product that I would support. The eight good teams are incredible to watch, and the playoffs are fantastic. The 24 other teams could be tossed into a pile and you couldn't tell one from the other. The mediocre, the bad, and the ugly.

 

There are a lot of things that can happen in the next few years that could have a HUGE impact on the NFL. The collective bargaining agreement, their case before the Supreme Court to remove anti-trust penalties, seat licenses, ticket prices, and on and on. It's rapidly running away from what made the league great.

 

Also, I read a great article the other day which stated that, contrary to popular belief, the NFL LOVES that there's no team in Los Angeles. How many new stadiums would've gotten built in the last 15 years if owners didn't have that "LA carrot" to dangle in front of the local taxpayers?

[DC Mom]

The problem is the race to the bottom among cities. Especially in the 90s, it was about who was willing to waste more public tax money on luring a team from another or to keep their team from moving.

 

If there was some way to stop all municipalities from subsidizing these teams, that would be ideal. It's just like all those states giving away tons in subsidies and tax breaks in order to bring in some factory. I think for the Hyundai plant in Alabama, the cost was something like $150K per job. Hyundai came out like bandits playing one state off of the other in order to get the sweetest goody basket.

 

To be fair to Ralph, I don't know of any other owner in the NFL with a worse NFL stadium than RWS who is not whining and threatening in order to get a new stadium.

[Leonidas]

As a lifelong WNY, I'm sick of subsidizing RW's $25m a year in profit to the tune of $3M a year in taxpayer dollars. He took a $25,000 investment and using the loyalty of this fanbase and the NFL's fanbase and turned it into, by some accounts, a $900M entity. The continual taxpayer subsidies of teams like the Jets and Giants and Dallas Cowboys (JJ is a complete ahole saying that revenue sharing is on its way out and no longer going to happen while he took $350M in subsidies from willing taxpayers for his new stadium). Sorry but I'm open to this team leaving. See ya. Bye. Adios. Part of it is downrigfht hatred for the greed of the new neoliberal NFL, part is that $3M would be better spent elsewhere in this community, and part is sick of the owner and his greed and whining about how this city isn;t worth it anymore. Take you football and go home. I for one don't judge myself and this city based on the football team. My, and our, identity is not this team. Maybe if they left, we could focus on making the community better instead of using the team as an unfortunate distraction away from the issues that should be talked about in forums.

 

And I'm a season ticket holder, so it's not that I just hate the team and the owner. I support them financially as a ticket buyer and as a taxpayer. But I'm sick of the record profits, record TV contracts, semi-literate millionaires acting like children and whining about money as "respect," the game of owners and players argung over how to split billions of dollars in revenue while holding fans hostage, the $75 parking prices at NFL stadiums, $10 beers, $5 hot dogs, etc.

 

This is my last year supprting this team. I just can't get to a place where it matters to me anymore. So when they're ready to move, I'll gladly show up to the stadium and help pack the truck.

 

And I wanted to add in repsonse to the post above about the Chargers leaving being a "big problem" for the city. Yeah, research continues to show that subsidizing professional sports has minimal economic return and that it's largely just a political handout as teams are considered more of a symbol of a city than an economic engine. Basically asking taxpayers for a subsidy for a new stadium is akin to the owner saying "Hey, I want the average over-taxed, underemployed Joe to pay monmey to ensure I make millions in profit." The NFL is highly profitable because it was able to leverage public subsidies into marketing to grow the brand on our backs. Then after they grew on new stadiums and hype, they hit us up for personal seat license and disgustingly high ticket prices.

 

A large part of what you said I agree with...in principle, anyway. I've read that professional sports teams are hardly a boon to most cities. By the same token, I am adamant that the Bills not leave the Buffalo area, and that includes Toronto. For such an economically depressed area, it's a source of pride just to have a professional football team, especially when what you allude to about prices being so out of whack. I've never lived in New York State. But having so much family in WNY and knowing so many people from the area I will forever be a Buffalo Bills fan, and I don't know what I'd do if they left.

 

But I sense a hint of misdirected political anger. You blame it on the "new neoliberal NFL," but 1) the prefix 'neo' literally means 'new,' so you're being redundant, and 2) if anything the NFL is moving away from it's liberal, profit-sharing, salary-cap roots into a more market based, every-man-(team)-for-themselves conservative ideology. Seeing that you're from WNY it doesn't surprise me that you come from the right (as opposed to the 'left;' not as opposed to the 'wrong') frame of thought, and I know the right loves to blame everything under the sun on Obama, but please at least get your facts straight when going on a tirade.

[Chalkie Gerzowski]

Maybe it's cause the NFL jumped the shark a while back?

 

[BillsVet]

It's interesting to speak about stadiums and then discuss the Bills. As opposed to SD, no one is talking about the Bills Stadium lease which expires after the 2012 season. And of course, there's no substantive talk of a new stadium in the region for Buffalo given the economy and there's no way the Bills get public financing to build a new park.

 

League wide, the latent message is to build stadiums, which increases overall revenue. And by my count, 20 NFL stadiums have been built this since 1995, with the Giants and Jets moving to a new field next season. That's more than 2/3ds the league in new homes.

 

Of the 10 oldest stadiums in the league, Lambeau, the Oakland Coliseum, RWS, the Superdome and Arrowhead have received significant renovations. Giants Stadium will be replaced, with the Metrodome and Candlestick probably not having much time left. Meanwhile, Land Shark Stadium needs renovations as well. That leaves only Qualcomm in San Diego.

 

The lack of discussion about the stadium situation tells me a lot about what the future could be for the Buffalo Bills.

[vincec]

I am mostly in agreement with zonabb. I haven't spent $1 on any professional sport except hockey since I moved from Buffalo many years ago. You listed most of the reasons in your post including the most important one: I need the money more than Ralph Wilson does. I follow the team as 1) mindless entertainment and 2) to give me something to talk with my buddies about. The only reason I've paid for the occasional hockey game is because my wife is a fan and it's a fun night out, but I assure you it's rare.

[Thoner7]

As a lifelong WNY, I'm sick of subsidizing RW's $25m a year in profit to the tune of $3M a year in taxpayer dollars. He took a $25,000 investment and using the loyalty of this fanbase and the NFL's fanbase and turned it into, by some accounts, a $900M entity. The continual taxpayer subsidies of teams like the Jets and Giants and Dallas Cowboys (JJ is a complete ahole saying that revenue sharing is on its way out and no longer going to happen while he took $350M in subsidies from willing taxpayers for his new stadium). Sorry but I'm open to this team leaving. See ya. Bye. Adios. Part of it is downrigfht hatred for the greed of the new neoliberal NFL, part is that $3M would be better spent elsewhere in this community, and part is sick of the owner and his greed and whining about how this city isn;t worth it anymore. Take you football and go home. I for one don't judge myself and this city based on the football team. My, and our, identity is not this team. Maybe if they left, we could focus on making the community better instead of using the team as an unfortunate distraction away from the issues that should be talked about in forums.

 

And I'm a season ticket holder, so it's not that I just hate the team and the owner. I support them financially as a ticket buyer and as a taxpayer. But I'm sick of the record profits, record TV contracts, semi-literate millionaires acting like children and whining about money as "respect," the game of owners and players argung over how to split billions of dollars in revenue while holding fans hostage, the $75 parking prices at NFL stadiums, $10 beers, $5 hot dogs, etc.

 

This is my last year supprting this team. I just can't get to a place where it matters to me anymore. So when they're ready to move, I'll gladly show up to the stadium and help pack the truck.

 

And I wanted to add in repsonse to the post above about the Chargers leaving being a "big problem" for the city. Yeah, research continues to show that subsidizing professional sports has minimal economic return and that it's largely just a political handout as teams are considered more of a symbol of a city than an economic engine. Basically asking taxpayers for a subsidy for a new stadium is akin to the owner saying "Hey, I want the average over-taxed, underemployed Joe to pay monmey to ensure I make millions in profit." The NFL is highly profitable because it was able to leverage public subsidies into marketing to grow the brand on our backs. Then after they grew on new stadiums and hype, they hit us up for personal seat license and disgustingly high ticket prices.

 

Id love to hear your opinion on the current US Government handouts....

[EasternOHBillsFan]

History comes full circle: The Los Angeles Chargers will rise again, thanks to the citizenry of San Diego.

 

It could most certainly happen!!!

[LongLiveRalph]

League wide, the latent message is to build stadiums, which increases overall revenue. And by my count, 20 NFL stadiums have been built this since 1995, with the Giants and Jets moving to a new field next season. That's more than 2/3ds the league in new homes.

 

Makes sense...1995 was the year LA lost professional football, giving owners a potential landing spot to move their team, which was used as leverage against their fans in order to get public money approved for new construction. It works over and over again. (Certainly, there are well-established franchises like Pittsburgh that got a stadium built and didn't threaten to move, because it would never happen anyways.)

 

And the stadiums themselves...How have the costs gotten so outrageous??? Have any of you been to Raymond James Stadium in Tampa? It's as nice a football stadium as you could need, want, or ask for. Great sight lines, great field, tons of concessions and big restrooms, and great ammenities and "extras" (pirate ship, party deck, two large jumbotrons, etc. etc.) It was built in 1998 and cost $192 million. I realize that was a decade ago, but even in 2009 dollars, how are these new stadiums getting up over $1 billion??? It's astonishing.

[Marshmallow]

Part of it is downrigfht hatred for the greed of the new neoliberal NFL

 

Be honest now, how many times a day does someone call you a douche?

[flomoe]

As a lifelong WNY, I'm sick of subsidizing RW's $25m a year in profit to the tune of $3M a year in taxpayer dollars. He took a $25,000 investment and using the loyalty of this fanbase and the NFL's fanbase and turned it into, by some accounts, a $900M entity. The continual taxpayer subsidies of teams like the Jets and Giants and Dallas Cowboys (JJ is a complete ahole saying that revenue sharing is on its way out and no longer going to happen while he took $350M in subsidies from willing taxpayers for his new stadium). Sorry but I'm open to this team leaving. See ya. Bye. Adios. Part of it is downrigfht hatred for the greed of the new neoliberal NFL, part is that $3M would be better spent elsewhere in this community, and part is sick of the owner and his greed and whining about how this city isn;t worth it anymore. Take you football and go home. I for one don't judge myself and this city based on the football team. My, and our, identity is not this team. Maybe if they left, we could focus on making the community better instead of using the team as an unfortunate distraction away from the issues that should be talked about in forums.

 

And I'm a season ticket holder, so it's not that I just hate the team and the owner. I support them financially as a ticket buyer and as a taxpayer. But I'm sick of the record profits, record TV contracts, semi-literate millionaires acting like children and whining about money as "respect," the game of owners and players argung over how to split billions of dollars in revenue while holding fans hostage, the $75 parking prices at NFL stadiums, $10 beers, $5 hot dogs, etc.

 

This is my last year supprting this team. I just can't get to a place where it matters to me anymore. So when they're ready to move, I'll gladly show up to the stadium and help pack the truck.

 

And I wanted to add in repsonse to the post above about the Chargers leaving being a "big problem" for the city. Yeah, research continues to show that subsidizing professional sports has minimal economic return and that it's largely just a political handout as teams are considered more of a symbol of a city than an economic engine. Basically asking taxpayers for a subsidy for a new stadium is akin to the owner saying "Hey, I want the average over-taxed, underemployed Joe to pay monmey to ensure I make millions in profit." The NFL is highly profitable because it was able to leverage public subsidies into marketing to grow the brand on our backs. Then after they grew on new stadiums and hype, they hit us up for personal seat license and disgustingly high ticket prices.

 

 

This has flame written all over it but.......

 

I understand where you are coming from in a way, but that is the way most WNY'ers feel. They think they are all subsidizing Ralph with the $1.47 they pay in extra taxes per year.

 

The one thing that people tend to forget is that this is entertainment, plain and simple. If you don't like it, don't go. The extra couple of bucks in taxes isn't going to make a difference in anything that you do. If the money doesn't go towards the Bills, it will end up in some Union members pocket while he is claiming he is working, while sitting at a bar at 9am, trying to figure out if he should buy another drink or play keno. Erie County is F##cked up in so many ways and people actually find time to complain about the chicken scratch that Ralph gets out of the county and or state.

 

I lived there for 30 years listening to the same crap year after year. Ralph isn't doing anything different than anyone other owner in the NFL. He actually is probably in the bottom handful in payouts from the jurisdictions and he is still there. Don't forget that the Bills on gameday bring in thousands, if not hundreds of thousands in TAX revenue for the county.

[ExiledInIllinois]

Read the city residents reaction in the comments below the article. They are tired of the greed in the NFL, and are basically saying "adios" to the Chargers. I happen to agree that the NFL has gotten extremely greedy, and is becoming a rich man's game. When do people say enough is enough? Pretty interesting development...

 

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2009/de...-money-stadium/

 

The NFL is a rich man's game. To answer your question in red:

 

When you can't get a reasonable ticket in BFLO or have to pay for a PSL in BFLO.

[stuckincincy]

Here's a little fuel for the fire, from TMQ:

 

..."Equally absurd, the NFL -- the league organization, not the individual teams -- is a nonprofit! The National Football League is a money-crazed organization with revenues of about $8 billion annually; its owners and top officials buzz around in private jets; commissioner Roger Goodell has a salary of $11.2 million per year; yet officially the NFL is a nonprofit under New York State law.

 

This transparent fiction enables the league to avoid paying its fair share of tax, all the while demanding stadium subsidies to increase its revenue. Not-for-profit status also allows the NFL to sell tax-exempt bonds to back stadium construction, a hidden subsidy for football's wealthy owners. "...

 

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story...mp;sportCat=nfl

[BillsfaninFl]

Read the city residents reaction in the comments below the article. They are tired of the greed in the NFL, and are basically saying "adios" to the Chargers. I happen to agree that the NFL has gotten extremely greedy, and is becoming a rich man's game. When do people say enough is enough? Pretty interesting development...

 

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2009/de...-money-stadium/

 

OK, so they build it closer to LA and become the LA Chargers. Or - they could relocate to Buffalo after the Bills are sold. Our stadium is much younger and can handle larger crowds. Who knows what would happen if we actually had a winning team again?