LOST...Season 6

[The Jokeman]

1. from what ive seen, he changed forms in order to manipulate people. as Dogan said, "he will be in the form of someone familiar and dead". what's an easier way to manipulate someone than showing up as a dead loved one and asking them to do something? plus, it seems the "rule" was that he could only take the form of someone dead and UNBURIED on the Island. I think this was why it was so important that Richard took the body of the Dharma leader back to his people. So they could bury it and know it was not Smokey visiting them.

I'm not sure how true the UNBURIED on the island would be as while there's no proof he took her form I believe Smokey took Alex's form. As think he did so when Ben was being judged as it was his way to fool Ben that he needed to kill Jacob and she was definitely dead and buried on the island per Richard telling Ben he had buried her under the swing set.

[extrahammer]

I'm one who initially put some interpretation stock into that. That was pretty ****ty of the network to do, especially w/o asking the producers. They wanted from the start to have the last, last, last image of the show be Jack's closing eye, and some stooge just had to ---- with it. Hope it's fixed in the DVDs.

 

It would've helped immensely to have put some kind of word mark there, a tribute, a thanks to the fans, a "THE END" etc. to really hit it home that the scene was separate from the storytelling/content of the series.

 

I took it under interpretation, but my old college buddy who works in TV said he thought ABC just threw it in there. You're right UConn, a mark or something would have been helpful.

[duey]

I'm not sure how true the UNBURIED on the island would be as while there's no proof he took her form I believe Smokey took Alex's form. As think he did so when Ben was being judged as it was his way to fool Ben that he needed to kill Jacob and she was definitely dead and buried on the island per Richard telling Ben he had buried her under the swing set.

Your absolutely right. Alex was buried under the swing set and I believe he did take Alex's form when Ben was being judged. And don't forget what Alex said..."she" told Ben he had to do whatever John Locke said...basically setting up Ben killing Jacob.

[duey]

I took it under interpretation, but my old college buddy who works in TV said he thought ABC just threw it in there. You're right UConn, a mark or something would have been helpful.

To me it just smacks of the network having no friggin' clue about the show, its storylines and its fans. Anyone with any interest or knowledge of the show would have understood how something like that would detract from the actual ending of the show. Dopes...absolute dopes.

[DrFishfinder]

To me it just smacks of the network having no friggin' clue about the show, its storylines and its fans. Anyone with any interest or knowledge of the show would have understood how something like that would detract from the actual ending of the show. Dopes...absolute dopes.

Ham-handed, arrogant futhermuckers. May Dick Jauron become head of programming for ABC.

[SonOfWade]

The ash they used to spread to keep smokey away. Do we know what that was or where it came from? Why it was so powerful?

 

I'm guessing it's ashes from the banyan trees. In the first episode, the smoke monster wouldn't follow Jack, Kate, and Charlie into the banyan trees. There are several other examples in the Lostepidia entry for The Man in Black under the Banyan trees section. The trees appear to be Smokey's Kryptonite. Garlic and holy water for vampires, fire for Frankenstein's monster, silver for werewolves. Every monster has it's weakness.

[duey]

I'm guessing it's ashes from the banyan trees. In the first episode, the smoke monster wouldn't follow Jack, Kate, and Charlie into the banyan trees. There are several other examples in the Lostepidia entry for The Man in Black under the Banyan trees section. The trees appear to be Smokey's Kryptonite. Garlic and holy water for vampires, fire for Frankenstein's monster, silver for werewolves. Every monster has it's weakness.

Very nice catch...and remember, MIB said that he's been looking for the cave of light for a very long time and was never able to find it.

[SonOfWade]

Very nice catch...and remember, MIB said that he's been looking for the cave of light for a very long time and was never able to find it.

 

I don't think anyone can find it unless accompanied by the current protector.

[ThePebble19]

Ham-handed, arrogant futhermuckers. May Dick Jauron become head of programming for ABC.

 

 

It's hard to win over fans on ABC.

[Cugalabanza]

I don't think anyone can find it unless accompanied by the current protector.

Which is ironic because it follows that the best protection would be to not have a protector at all, because no one would ever find it to do it any harm.

[DrFishfinder]

It's hard to win over fans on ABC.

heh.

 

I wonder what ABC's got left? Dancing with the Kardashian's Chef's Apprentice?

[MattyT]

Which is ironic because it follows that the best protection would be to not have a protector at all, because no one would ever find it to do it any harm.

oh snap!

[UConn James]

I have a few questions upon further reflection. (Please keep in mind, per my earlier posts, that I was in the too-many-unanswered-questions/complainer camp, but came to realize that the actual problem was me: I had not invested enough time and neurons to index all the facts and conjecture, so the questions seemed unanswered when they were actually resolved or resolve-able through inference.)

 

Anyway, here are a few things that still don't make sense to me:

 

1) Why did the smoke monster need to change human forms? And was one of his forms Christian Shepherd? And/or anyone else other than MIB and Locke?

 

2) What happened when Jughead was detonated? Why didn't the Lostaways die? Was there a time flash that took them away from the actual detonation? Or were they immune to it because they couldn't be killed by a non-candidate (Juliet)?

 

3) Why/how was Sayid revived from death? And why did Dogen subsequently tell Sayid that he had the "wrong kind" of energy based upon the torture test?

 

OK, that's it for now. I appreciate everyone's knowledge and wisdom, and have hereby sworn off claiming that there were too many unanswered questions!

hey UB, im glad you decided to join the discussion! half the fun was talking about the show and now its all we have left and these are some great questions. probably the best ive seen after i asked someone to list their remaining questions.

 

1. from what ive seen, he changed forms in order to manipulate people. as Dogan said, "he will be in the form of someone familiar and dead". what's an easier way to manipulate someone than showing up as a dead loved one and asking them to do something? plus, it seems the "rule" was that he could only take the form of someone dead and UNBURIED on the Island. I think this was why it was so important that Richard took the body of the Dharma leader back to his people. So they could bury it and know it was not Smokey visiting them.

 

2. Great question. not sure that we'll ever really know exactly what happened. what we do know is that when it detonated, the LOSTIES jumped back through time to present day, so we can assume that the release of that energy sent them through time instead of blowing them up in the explosion. This post has some pretty good ideas about the Alt timeline, and how the detonation created it, and what it meant to the LOSTIES.

 

3. "HOW" is going to have to be left up to faith, one of the show's main themes, as I can not tell you the science behind bringing someone back from the dead I'll assume that the waters in the temple, were the same that ran to the Light Chamber. While it was never fully explained, we know that is where Richard took Ben when he was shot as a boy to be healed. NOW, I also believe it was pointed out that the fountain did not work for Sayid, and it was not the water that brought him back to life as he did not revive instantly. So this might mean that the MiB got to him somehow, just like he can get to other dead bodies left unburied on the Island, and that gave him the "wrong energy". There is a lot of grey area on this though. Great question.

 

I was thinking about things that were left unexplained last night, and thought about Dogan's test as well. It doesnt seem to relate to anything we saw.

 

The Smoke Monster could take the forms of the buried. He used Alex's form during Ben's "judgment" and we learned that Richard had buried her near the Dharma-ville swingset. It could also take the form of people whose memories it downloaded, who were never on the island e.g. Ben's mother, Isabella. I think Richard may have brought Paul's body to the Temple, as that was the only place Smokey/Cerberus couldn't go.

 

The Jughead detonation is and will remain a mystery. One could even question whether it blew up at all. Perhaps the energy release that produced the time-flash was just the effect of the drilling. The DI could then have used a lot of concrete to contain whatever radiation emanated from the exposed Jughead core, and/or used it as a power device for the Swan hatch. As UB2 wrote, the candidates couldn't die... or at least not by the hands of Juliet. But there may well have been a small explosion (without the rest of the bomb, the core explosion wouldn't have been nearly as large), and the DI built the Swan to contain the Source energy release to levels where it wouldn't do harm. That actually makes sense as I write it now. Just so everyone knows, the Incident is where Richard "saw them all die." Per writer's-room white-board that was shown in S5 DVD commentary, there was to be a scene where Richard witnessed the Incident, and it evidently didn't make the final cut. This link gets it totally right (but, screw the writer's "thoughts and wishes"). Jacob loosely orchestrated everything.

 

Man, I can't stop thinking about 'The End.'

 

If Aaron's one of the castaway's moving on from the sideways world, how come he's still shown as a baby? And will Claire and Charley be changing dipers in Heaven for all eternity? Sigh...

 

Aaron was a part of the core S1 group, and apparently, the island experience was the most important part of his life.

 

Different from Des and Penny's son, Charlie, who had no real connection to the island. Not quite sure how Penny is there, but then again she did serve as Desmond's constant.

 

Interesting to note that only Boone and Locke are without a coupling in the final church scene (and, no, they're not sitting close together, either).

 

Just read a theory which I posted in another reply, that says they were not all moving on to heaven or the afterlife, but that they were then finally able to move on with their lives. and that the ALT timeline was just that, an alternative place with no time, but space.

 

here is the theory with the information from Faraday's journal. kinda changes things a little if true.

 

http://theoriesonlost.blogspot.com/2010/05...rything-by.html

 

Not any kind of judgment on you, but Doc Dank, that link is a pure canard. There is nothing to it, that's not from an interview with JJ Abrams, and most of the ideas in it are directly opposed by what we saw and what Christian said in the "The End." The Sideways world was not reality, they are all dead, and the time lines do not merge, beyond the consciousness merges of certain of the Lostaways from the original timeline into this purgatory/intermediary stage where they 'waited' (but, "there is no now, here" so there was no wait as such) for everyone to corporeally die and then decide whether to move on/let go. I put no stock into this link's contents.

 

Smokey took the form of MIB, Locke, Christian Shepherd, Richard's wife and, I believe, Eko's brother. Sometimes I wonder of some of the dead people Hurley saw were smokey. I also wonder if Kate's horse was smokey.

 

I believe so. Also, the cat Sayid saw at the Flame station. Every vision was an effort by the MIB to push the Lostaways on. As much as he accused Jacob of "pushing" them all to the island, he was doing the same thing. But whereas Jacob largely left people to make their own choices, MIB was using ghostly persuasion.

 

a friend just messaged me the following thought:

 

If it was the Jughead detonation which caused the childbirth issues on the Island, then Juliet CAUSED the childbirth problem. The same problem she was brought to the Island to fix 30 years later, which then set her up to go back in time and again, cause the problem.... and so on.

 

Yeah. That seems clear. Ethan was the last baby to be conceived and born on the island.

 

After a few days thought... Im not a fan of the ending, but it could be a lot worse... most of the time a finale doesnt come close to expectations and could even ruin a series (see Sopranos, The). I think the writers needed some sort of major event and/or major twist at the end. The whole "purgatory" thing was just fabricated from material introduced in the this season.

 

Also, if you look at the final conflict it is pretty unsatisfying. Like WTF was the point of Ben turning in the 2nd last episode? The final fight wasnt good at all, there were much better fights throughout the series. The final resolution to the whole thing was unplug a mysterious plug so light stops shining in a cave, throw the evil guy onto rocks, then plug the thing back in?

 

I saw much better conclusions written by fans on the internet over the course of the past few years. Pretty bad writing here iMO. The series (potentially one of the greatest serieses ever IMO) went out with a whimper. Also take into account that fans have been looking forward to a huge "mind f*ck" at the end for 6 years.

 

If you're unhappy with the ending and/or the last season, that's your prerogative... to be unhappy. Personally, I don't want to be moany and groany. We got a pretty darn good resolution, the story came full circle, and it was a beautiful message at the end. I'm sorry you didn't like it.

[duey]

As if I needed another reason to buy the Lost Six Pack on August 24...

 

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1640174/2...527/story.jhtml

 

'Lost' DVD Set Will Feature Hurley/Ben Epilogue

Star Michael Emerson says bonus feature will show 12-14 minutes of the duo's Island adventures.

By Adam Rosenberg

 

Hurley: "You know, you were a real good number two." Ben: "And you were a great number one, Hugo."

 

This brief exchange between Hurley (Jorge Garcia) and Ben (Michael Emerson) in the final stretch of "Lost" series finale "The End" suggested that a lifetime of adventures unfolded for the Island duo before they eventually moved on and reunited with their friends in the pre-afterlife. And fans will actually get to glimpse those adventures when season six of "Lost" arrives on DVD and Blu-ray.

 

"For those people that want to pony up and buy the complete 'Lost' series, there is a bonus feature — you could call it an epilogue, a lost scene," Emerson said during an appearance on G4's "Attack of the Show." "It's a lot, 12 or 14 minutes, that opens a window on that gap of unknown time between Hurley becoming number one and the end of the series."

 

The revelation was greeted with gasps of surprise from the studio audience. Additional answers had been promised for the "Lost" season six DVD release, but no details had been revealed before Emerson spoke. Asked if he regretted making the reveal, the actor replied with a smile, "I'm rolling over that in my mind."

 

The follow-up question, of course, is if this footage might hint at some kind of "Lost" spin-off, something that showrunners Carlton Cuse and Damon Lindelof have sworn time and again won't happen — at least, not with them at the helm.

 

"It's self-contained," Emerson replied. "Although it's a rich period in the show's mythology that has never been explored. So who knows what will come of it?"

[DrDawkinstein]

Not any kind of judgment on you, but Doc Dank, that link is a pure canard. There is nothing to it, that's not from an interview with JJ Abrams, and most of the ideas in it are directly opposed by what we saw and what Christian said in the "The End." The Sideways world was not reality, they are all dead, and the time lines do not merge, beyond the consciousness merges of certain of the Lostaways from the original timeline into this purgatory/intermediary stage where they 'waited' (but, "there is no now, here" so there was no wait as such) for everyone to corporeally die and then decide whether to move on/let go. I put no stock into this link's contents.

 

of course, i just thought it made for interesting conversation, and was another way of looking at the ending. since im not in the camp that has to have exact and definite answers laid out for them, i think it's interesting that there's some mystery there. good catch in Faraday's journal, and if that is true, then it does leave some wiggle room. im going with the general consensus that it was the afterlife, but "what if" it wasnt. or what really is the after life? maybe now they get to go on and live a "perfect life" together? i dont know. i just really liked how this theory was able to bring some of the science side into play.

 

As if I needed another reason to buy the Lost Six Pack on August 24...

 

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1640174/2...527/story.jhtml

 

AMAZING! was going to purchase anyways, but now it's a must have.

[The Jokeman]

AMAZING! was going to purchase anyways, but now it's a must have.

Meanwhile those of who have bought each series at they come out get the shaft!

[DrDawkinstein]

Meanwhile those of who have bought each series at they come out get the shaft!

 

general rule of thumb for any media nowadays: always hold out for the special edition Bluray Box Set

 

of course, in a few years (months?) that rule will change when there is an even better format available

[UConn James]

of course, i just thought it made for interesting conversation, and was another way of looking at the ending. since im not in the camp that has to have exact and definite answers laid out for them, i think it's interesting that there's some mystery there. good catch in Faraday's journal, and if that is true, then it does leave some wiggle room. im going with the general consensus that it was the afterlife, but "what if" it wasnt. or what really is the after life? maybe now they get to go on and live a "perfect life" together? i dont know. i just really liked how this theory was able to bring some of the science side into play.

 

I'm also keen on the idea that going into the Light triggers the "rebirth" that Mother stated was one of the Light's properties. And, if this group all goes into the light together, they are with each other in their next life. One could also argue that they had achieved 'Dharma' in the Buddhist sense.... and that the Dharma Initiative actually helped bring about these peoples' Dharma.

 

AMAZING! was going to purchase anyways, but now it's a must have.

Meanwhile those of who have bought each series at they come out get the shaft!

 

It's a little unclear to me whether this epilogue going to be on the S6 DVD/BD set for those of us who have purchased all along, or if it's exclusive to the Complete Six Season Collector's Set. It would suck a bit if it's not, but hey, they need to create their incentives so they can make more $. Also, it will doubtless be on Youtube about 10 minutes after that set is released, if not before, as many of the S5 extras were.

 

-----

 

Just found the sensibility in this posting to be very nice. These LOST threads are the place we made to be together....

[The Jokeman]

general rule of thumb for any media nowadays: always hold out for the special edition Bluray Box Set

 

of course, in a few years (months?) that rule will change when there is an even better format available

True. Yet with LOST I really didn't have an option because when the show first started I didn't watch it and I only got into the series after they started re-airing episodes after a brief interuption in the first season. I then bought the first season to get myself caught up on some episodes that weren't reaired and as they say, the rest is history.

[UConn James]

general rule of thumb for any media nowadays: always hold out for the special edition Bluray Box Set

 

of course, in a few years (months?) that rule will change when there is an even better format available

 

And that's the sh---- part as media gets more complicated beyond stone inscriptions. Paper, celluloid, DVDs, the ether that we call the Internet, etc. don't last. Hell, even stone carving doesn't last. The question becomes, as new media arises, whether a work will survive and be translated into the next format. Or how long that translation might take. There's countless works that have just been lost to history through disinterest, natural disaster / calamity, projects that get perpetually postponed, moneyed interests and the George Lucases and Peter Jacksons of the world that are content to just sit on things, release one improvement at a time to try to get fans to buy thirty-eleven copies of their movie sets.

 

One would hope that the quality of LOST will always draw people to it.

[KRC]

One could also argue that they had achieved 'Dharma' in the Buddhist sense.... and that the Dharma Initiative actually helped bring about these peoples' Dharma.

 

You do not achieve Dharma. Dharma is the path to enlightenment. It is not enlightenment.

[duey]

One would hope that the quality of LOST will always draw people to it.

As I believe that this is truly a show that will live on in the hearts and minds of current and future viewers, scoring the full Blueray set is a must for me. I have a 10 year old who is dying to watch the show but Mrs. duey and I figured is a still a few years away. And then of course there's my four year old daughter. I'd love to sit down with both of them and watch the series from beginning to end. It will be great talking about it all over again...and God knows what new observations and insights may arise.

[Scraps]

And that's the sh---- part as media gets more complicated beyond stone inscriptions. Paper, celluloid, DVDs, the ether that we call the Internet, etc. don't last. Hell, even stone carving doesn't last.

 

Stone carving lasts. They are just a bit inconvenient.

[DrDawkinstein]

Just found the sensibility in this posting to be very nice. These LOST threads are the place we made to be together....

 

made the same point to a co-worker yesterday, that the show was about a group of people brought together and the best way to make it through was with each other. same thing could be applied to the fans. live together, be very confused alone. the more an individual was willing to become part of the community, the more value they were able to derive from the series. wonderful.

[Acantha]

Found this post on another site. No idea of authenticity, but thought it adds to the discussion (if it hasn't already been posted, I haven't read the whole thread).

 

Found on lostmediamentions this is some guy from Bad Robot (the company that produced Lost) amazing post:

 

Good stuff on here! I can finally throw in my two cents! I've had to bite my tongue for far too long. Also, hopefully I can answer some of John's questions about Dharma and the "pointless breadcrumbs" that really, weren't so pointless ...

 

First ...

The Island:

 

It was real. Everything that happened on the island that we saw throughout the 6 seasons was real. Forget the final image of the plane crash, it was put in purposely to f*&k with people's heads and show how far the show had come. They really crashed. They really survived. They really discovered Dharma and the Others. The Island keeps the balance of good and evil in the world. It always has and always will perform that role. And the Island will always need a "Protector". Jacob wasn't the first, Hurley won't be the last. However, Jacob had to deal with a malevolent force (MIB) that his mother, nor Hurley had to deal with. He created the devil and had to find a way to kill him -- even though the rules prevented him from actually doing so.

 

Thus began Jacob's plan to bring candidates to the Island to do the one thing he couldn't do. Kill the MIB. He had a huge list of candidates that spanned generations. Yet everytime he brought people there, the MIB corrupted them and caused them to kill one another. That was until Richard came along and helped Jacob understand that if he didn't take a more active role, then his plan would never work.

 

Enter Dharma -- which I'm not sure why John is having such a hard time grasping. Dharma, like the countless scores of people that were brought to the island before, were brought there by Jacob as part of his plan to kill the MIB. However, the MIB was aware of this plan and interferred by "corrupting" Ben. Making Ben believe he was doing the work of Jacob when in reality he was doing the work of the MIB. This carried over into all of Ben's "off-island" activities. He was the leader. He spoke for Jacob as far as they were concerned. So the "Others" killed Dharma and later were actively trying to kill Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley and all the candidates because that's what the MIB wanted. And what he couldn't do for himself.

 

Dharma was originally brought in to be good. But was turned bad by MIB's corruption and eventually destroyed by his pawn Ben. Now, was Dharma only brought there to help Jack and the other Canditates on their overall quest to kill Smokey? Or did Jacob have another list of Canidates from the Dharma group that we were never aware of? That's a question that is purposley not answered because whatever answer the writers came up with would be worse than the one you come up with for yourself. Still ... Dharma's purpose is not "pointless" or even vague. Hell, it's pretty blantent.

 

Still, despite his grand plan, Jacob wanted to give his "candidates" (our Lostaways) the one thing he, nor his brother, were ever afforded: free will. Hence him bringing a host of "candidates" through the decades and letting them "choose" which one would actually do the job in the end. Maybe he knew Jack would be the one to kill Flocke and that Hurley would be the protector in the end. Maybe he didn't. But that was always the key question of the show: Fate vs Free-will. Science vs Faith. Personally I think Jacob knew from the beginning what was going to happen and that everyone played a part over 6 seasons in helping Jack get to the point where he needed to be to kill Smokey and make Hurley the protector -- I know that's how a lot of the writers viewed it. But again, they won't answer that (nor should they) because that ruins the fun.

 

In the end, Jack got to do what he always wanted to do from the very first episode of the show: Save his fellow Lostaways. He got Kate and Sawyer off the island and he gave Hurley the purpose in life he'd always been missing. And, in Sideways world (which we'll get to next) he in fact saved everyone by helping them all move on ...

 

Now...

 

Sideways World:

 

Sideways world is where it gets really cool in terms of theology and metaphysical discussion (for me at least -- because I love history/religion theories and loved all the talks in the writer's room about it). Basically what the show is proposing is that we're all linked to certain people during our lives. Call them soulmates (though it's not exactly the best word). But these people we're linked to are with us duing "the most important moments of our lives" as Christian said. These are the people we move through the universe with from lifetime to lifetime. It's loosely based in Hinduisim with large doses of western religion thrown into the mix.

 

The conceit that the writers created, basing it off these religious philosophies, was that as a group, the Lostaways subconsciously created this "sideways" world where they exist in purgatory until they are "awakened" and find one another. Once they all find one another, they can then move on and move forward. In essence, this is the show's concept of the afterlife. According to the show, everyone creates their own "Sideways" purgatory with their "soulmates" throughout their lives and exist there until they all move on together. That's a beautiful notion. Even if you aren't religious or even spirtual, the idea that we live AND die together is deeply profound and moving.

 

It's a really cool and spirtual concept that fits the whole tone and subtext the show has had from the beginning. These people were SUPPOSED to be together on that plane. They were supposed to live through these events -- not JUST because of Jacob. But because that's what the universe or God (depending on how religious you wish to get) wanted to happen. The show was always about science vs faith -- and it ultimately came down on the side of faith. It answered THE core question of the series. The one question that has been at the root of every island mystery, every character backstory, every plot twist. That, by itself, is quite an accomplishment.

 

How much you want to extrapolate from that is up to you as the viewer. Think about season 1 when we first found the Hatch. Everyone thought that's THE answer! Whatever is down there is the answer! Then, as we discovered it was just one station of many. One link in a very long chain that kept revealing more, and more of a larger mosiac.

 

But the writer's took it even further this season by contrasting this Sideways "purgatory" with the Island itself. Remember when Michael appeared to Hurley, he said he was not allowed to leave the Island. Just like the MIB. He wasn't allowed into this sideways world and thus, was not afforded the opportunity to move on. Why? Because he had proven himself to be unworthy with his actions on the Island. He failed the test. The others, passed. They made it into Sideways world when they died -- some before Jack, some years later. In Hurley's case, maybe centuries later. They exist in this sideways world until they are "awakened" and they can only move on TOGETHER because they are linked. They are destined to be together for eternity. That was their destiny.

 

They were NOT linked to Anna Lucia, Daniel, Roussou, Alex, Miles, Lupidis, (and all the rest who weren't in the chuch -- basically everyone who wasn't in season 1). Yet those people exist in Sideways world. Why? Well again, here's where they leave it up to you to decide. The way I like to think about it, is that those people who were left behind in Sideways world have to find their own soulmates before they can wake up. It's possible that those links aren't people from the island but from their other life (Anna's parnter, the guy she shot --- Roussou's husband, etc etc).

 

A lot of people have been talking about Ben and why he didn't go into the Church. And if you think of Sideways world in this way, then it gives you the answer to that very question. Ben can't move on yet because he hasn't connected with the people he needs to. It's going to be his job to awaken Roussou, Alex, Anna Lucia (maybe), Ethan, Goodspeed, his father and the rest. He has to attone for his sins more than he did by being Hurley's number two. He has to do what Hurley and Desmond did for our Lostaways with his own people. He has to help them connect. And he can only move on when all the links in his chain are ready to. Same can be said for Faraday, Charlotte, Whidmore, Hawkins etc. It's really a neat, and cool concept. At least to me.

 

But, from a more "behind the scenes" note: the reason Ben's not in the church, and the reason no one is in the church but for Season 1 people is because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. And never changed it. The writers always said (and many didn't believe them) that they knew their ending from the very first episode. I applaud them for that. It's pretty fantastic. Originally Ben was supposed to have a 3 episode arc and be done. But he became a big part of the show. They could have easily changed their ending and put him in the church -- but instead they problem solved it. Gave him a BRILLIANT moment with Locke outside the church ... and then that was it. I loved that. For those that wonder -- the original ending started the moment Jack walked into the church and touches the casket to Jack closing his eyes as the other plane flies away. That was always JJ's ending. And they kept it.

 

For me the ending of this show means a lot. Not only because I worked on it, but because as a writer it inspired me in a way the medium had never done before. I've been inspired to write by great films. Maybe too many to count. And there have been amazing TV shows that I've loved (X-Files, 24, Sopranos, countless 1/2 hour shows). But none did what LOST did for me. None showed me that you could take huge risks (writing a show about faith for network TV) and stick to your creative guns and STILL please the audience. I learned a lot from the show as a writer. I learned even more from being around the incredible writers, producers, PAs, interns and everyone else who slaved on the show for 6 years.

 

In the end, for me, LOST was a touchstone show that dealt with faith, the afterlife, and all these big, spirtual questions that most shows don't touch. And to me, they never once waivered from their core story -- even with all the sci-fi elements they mixed in. To walk that long and daunting of a creative tightrope and survive is simply astounding.

[duey]

Found this post on another site. No idea of authenticity, but thought it adds to the discussion (if it hasn't already been posted, I haven't read the whole thread).

Amazing...and now it all comes full circle.

[DrDawkinstein]

Found this post on another site. No idea of authenticity, but thought it adds to the discussion (if it hasn't already been posted, I haven't read the whole thread).

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA YES!

[Rico]

Found this post on another site. No idea of authenticity, but thought it adds to the discussion (if it hasn't already been posted, I haven't read the whole thread).

Thanks, I copied, pasted, & saved it this time. No names attached, so it's all good.

[Acantha]

 

Believe it or not, that wasn't intended. I hadn't read much of this thread before today, and was just getting around to skimming through it. I assume that post was the one deleted earlier?

 

If so, I apologize Tgreg, I wasn't trying to throw that back in your face.

 

Honestly, I'm not very interested in all the nitpicking analysis of the series. Not to say there was anything wrong with others doing it, but I always thought all of the intense scrutiny of every detail really took away from the show for me. And while others have said they were disappointed with the questions left open at the end, I was exactly the opposite. As the weeks passed and the show dwindled down I was dreading a neatly wrapped ending with all questions answered. It would have made LOST "just another show" for me. The fact that the ending was so much more about the relationship of the characters and not the island or answers was excellent to me. The fact that Jacob was flawed and didn't have all the answers was great. Having a resolution without all questions answered is pretty much how life works, and really set this show apart.

 

Like others I was emotionally struck by the series and especially the ending. As ludicrous as it sounds, it reaffirmed the appreciation I have for the relationships in my life. And while I'm sure it's a fleeting emotion, I'm glad I experienced it.

 

*Edited to add some thoughts about the show.

[DrDawkinstein]

 

Believe it or not, that wasn't intended. I hadn't read much of this thread before today, and was just getting around to skimming through it. I assume that post was the one deleted earlier?

 

If so, sorry. I wasn't trying to spread an unwanted post.

 

ha, yeah, that was written by "someone" here and originated on this board.

[UConn James]

Here's a clip from E! Krisitin Dos Santos, where she spills a little re: who the Kwon candidate was, the MIB's name (Samuel, translated to "Man of God" in Hebrew. I'm surprised no one here responded to that news --- kind of a validation that it didn't matter that much?) and what the entry for '108' meant in the Lighthouse. The video was getting very choppy for me. She also said that "the producers have gone into radio silence and are never, ever going to answer questions about the show." Some of the more important points:

 

1. It was MIB-as-Christian Shephard's form who was the Jacob's Cabin ghost. Kristin said that if you go back, you can see the white shoes he was wearing in the casket. MIB-as-Christian's eye was also the one that appeared at the window to Hurley.

 

2. Some further information about Walt will be given some attention in the DVDs. [i would suspect that this will be part of the Hurley-reign epilogue.]

 

3. The Kwon candidate was Jin. Sun was not considered a candidate b/c she was a mother. [And further to that, she was an actual birth mother, not a guardian-type mother as Kate was serving to Aaron.]

 

4. The entry under '108' in the Lighthouse didn't matter. Evidently, it was a made-up name. The Lighthouse served only as a way for Jack to ultimately realize/see his purpose. We all were puzzled that it didn't say 'Hume' when in reality, it was probably a made-up Kaffafka name.

 

5. Krisitin was told that the Protector of the Island can change the weather on the Island. Either subconsciously or consciously. To draw someone to or send someone away from the Island.... She cited the sudden onset of the storm that drove the Black Rock so far inland, and the rainstorm just before Mother was killed.

 

You do not achieve Dharma. Dharma is the path to enlightenment. It is not enlightenment.

 

Touche, Ken. As one of your belief system, what did you think of the ending? (Going by a vague IIRC history of your postings & your under-avatar line and the fact that you're posting here, I'm assuming that belief system and that you watched the show).

 

As I believe that this is truly a show that will live on in the hearts and minds of current and future viewers, scoring the full Blueray set is a must for me. I have a 10 year old who is dying to watch the show but Mrs. duey and I figured is a still a few years away. And then of course there's my four year old daughter. I'd love to sit down with both of them and watch the series from beginning to end. It will be great talking about it all over again...and God knows what new observations and insights may arise.

 

Yeah. I will be doing that with present and future gens of my family, when they're ready. Actually, getting the Blu-rays may just make it possible to loan out the DVDs frequently. I have an uncle who's a 100% mentally disabled Vietnam vet who at this point in his life, reading a lot about it, went to the Marine Corps museum, and is finally achieving something close to peace with that time in his life and what happened. I think he really needs to see this show, especially as it relates to that final Christian Shephard speech.

 

 

Believe it or not, that wasn't intended. I hadn't read much of this thread before today, and was just getting around to skimming through it. I assume that post was the one deleted earlier?

 

If so, I apologize Tgreg, I wasn't trying to throw that back in your face.

 

Honestly, I'm not very interested in all the nitpicking analysis of the series. Not to say there was anything wrong with others doing it, but I always thought all of the intense scrutiny of every detail really took away from the show for me. And while others have said they were disappointed with the questions left open at the end, I was exactly the opposite. As the weeks passed and the show dwindled down I was dreading a neatly wrapped ending with all questions answered. It would have made LOST "just another show" for me. The fact that the ending was so much more about the relationship of the characters and not the island or answers was excellent to me. The fact that Jacob was flawed and didn't have all the answers was great. Having a resolution without all questions answered is pretty much how life works, and really set this show apart.

 

Like others I was emotionally struck by the series and especially the ending. As ludicrous as it sounds, it reaffirmed the appreciation I have for the relationships in my life. And while I'm sure it's a fleeting emotion, I'm glad I experienced it.

 

*Edited to add some thoughts about the show.

 

Well, I think the toothpaste is already out of the tube anyway.... Not quite sure why it was deleted. I would be pretty proud to have written that and be able to deliver some answers to people who are having trouble connecting the dots.

 

I loved finding out that the Protector was not imbued with any really special powers or trove of knowledge when s/he sipped from the cup. Really, all they've got is their wits, and what they've learned and will learn about the Island and its properties.

 

I always want to be reminded of this show's final message re: our relationships. I have it as my desktop and want it as something to hang on my wall. If ABC or whoever doesn't release a print of that church scene with the Light, I'll do it myself if I have to.... It comes so close to what I hope whatever comes next, is. (My only nitpick is that Vincent wasn't there. If my dogs aren't in 'heaven' then I don't want to go there).

[UConn James]

It's also just dawning on me that among the candidates that Jacob touched, Hurley and Sayid weren't touched until after the O6 got off the island. Further, Hurley wasn't touched until after Locke was killed. Can we view that as a last-minute addition from Jacob once he had an idea of what MIB would try to do? Once Locke was dead, Jacob knew that whoever took over right after him (and he always hoped it would be Jack) would probably need to sacrifice him/herself? Hurley as such an 11th-hour addition makes more sense to me that way.

[DrDawkinstein]

It's also just dawning on me that among the candidates that Jacob touched, Hurley and Sayid weren't touched until after the O6 got off the island. Further, Hurley wasn't touched until after Locke was killed. Can we view that as a last-minute addition from Jacob once he had an idea of what MIB would try to do? Once Locke was dead, Jacob knew that whoever took over right after him (and he always hoped it would be Jack) would probably need to sacrifice him/herself? Hurley as such an 11th-hour addition makes more sense to me that way.

 

good catch on the Hurley timing. wonder if that had something to do with him being originally "on the list" in season 1, but then sent back?

[Rico]

Anyone still on the fence re: getting this on Blu-ray, make no mistake, they are spectacular.

 

Some of the best BDs out there... so much better than the HD broadcasts and the DVDs.

[UConn James]

Krisitin also writes:

 

Whether you loved or hated the finale (it's no secret I loved it), one of the coolest things I've been hearing over the past few days is that some fans are liking it more the more they've thought about it. I think it's a finale that grows on you, if you let it. How many other finales can say the same?

 

If you didn't like it, or liked it but didn't love it, ABC is re-playing "The End" on Saturday night (5/29), with fewer commercials. On a second glance, you might connect some things you missed.

 

I have to say that it seems when I first watch an ep I watch for content --- what happens, how do things make sense. And when I see it again, I get the emotional content. I didn't tear up much in the finale on Sunday. But the waterworks were flowing when I re-watched it. I don't know if I'm weird in that regard or what, but that's just how it goes.

[KRC]

Touche, Ken. As one of your belief system, what did you think of the ending? (Going by a vague IIRC history of your postings & your under-avatar line and the fact that you're posting here, I'm assuming that belief system and that you watched the show).

 

Yes, I am Buddhist and yes, I watched the show (I have seen every episode).

 

I am fine with the ending. It didn't follow Buddhist philosophy, but I do not think that was their intent. They wanted to give an interpretation of things based on various religions and philosophies. They wanted to try to find a common ground among the religions, which is why I think you had the stained-glass window showing the major religions of the world.

 

I am not the type of person that is going to get bent out of shape because they showed something that does not follow my belief system (it's a TV show). Things like limbo or purgatory do not exist in Buddhism. There is no searching for a soulmate. There is no delay before being reborn. However, I do remember mentioning to my wife some references to Buddhist philosophies as we watched previous seasons (I do not recall the specific examples).

 

Overall, I thought it was a very good show. I think that there are some things that could have been better and I would have liked to have more questions answered on the show, rather than have them answered after the show was finished. The fact that we need to go to message boards and places like E! to get answers, to me, means that things could have been handled a little better in the show. That does not detract from the fact that it was a very good show. With all of the crap that gets put out these days, it is nice to have a quality show like this. It really stands out.

[duey]

good catch on the Hurley timing. wonder if that had something to do with him being originally "on the list" in season 1, but then sent back?

I think Hurley was touched a different way. That guy came back from the Pacific with the numbers in his head and then he told them to Hurley. The rest is history. Perhaps Jacob made sure that guy heard the numbers so that he could get to Hurley through him.

[DrDawkinstein]

I think Hurley was touched a different way. That guy came back from the Pacific with the numbers in his head and then he told them to Hurley. The rest is history. Perhaps Jacob made sure that guy heard the numbers so that he could get to Hurley through him.

 

agreed that Hurley was brought (or summoned) to the Island from the beginning, just not sure exactly what the touches mean. Sawyer and Kate were visited/touched when they were very young, some 30 years before they got on the flight. While Jack wasnt touched until he was an adult. And Sayid and Hurley not touched until after they had already left once.

 

Also, did we ever see any continuation of the scene when Juliet was a child and her parents told her about their divorce? That whole scene seemed out of place to me. especially because Juliet is older than I am, but that scene seemed to be set in the early 90s (?). I dont get it.

[ricojes]

Don't know if this has been posted or not, but this aleternate ending would have answered most of the unanswered questions....

[UConn James]

agreed that Hurley was brought (or summoned) to the Island from the beginning, just not sure exactly what the touches mean. Sawyer and Kate were visited/touched when they were very young, some 30 years before they got on the flight. While Jack wasnt touched until he was an adult. And Sayid and Hurley not touched until after they had already left once.

 

Also, did we ever see any continuation of the scene when Juliet was a child and her parents told her about their divorce? That whole scene seemed out of place to me. especially because Juliet is older than I am, but that scene seemed to be set in the early 90s (?). I dont get it.

 

I, too, was half expecting for a scene early this season/in the premiere to show Jacob touching her after she ran out of the house. Wasn't meant to be.

 

I think the point they were making in that S5 finale was that Juliet hadn't been touched. And so, she did not have that special kind of protection that the candidates had. But, they did give her the coffee / go Dutch lines right at the end that foreshadowed the Sideways.

 

It was also interesting that she had the Sideways parallel of un-plugging the machine to get the Apollo bar, that unexpectedly turned off the lights in the whole corridor. An obvious allusion to unplugging the Source which shut down the island.

 

-----

 

While driving today, I got to thinking about Isaac (the faith healer that Bernard took Rose to in OZ). From what he said (and from what Mother said), we took it as meaning that locale had the same or similar works as the Island, and that there were others located throughout the world. Just like the Island Source had spots around the periphery, there were access points in whatever kind of pattern (I would imagine, kind of like a wheel hub shape, judging from the map of the Dharma stations). Isaac seemed to have commercialized his spot, as he was charging $10K to see Rose. As I wrote before, tho, the Island may be special even among these b/c it is where the "cork" on Hell is... unless these other spots have similar accesses as well.