sharper802 Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Give me a break. The frist throw was right on the money. Some have suggested it was late and TO had to slow down. If he leads him any further to the sideline then he may be out of bounds or has no chance to turn it up field. The second throw was good but not great. It was safer to throw it to his sideline shoulder and away from the defender. If he throws it to the inside shoulder it is probably a touchdown but if it is a little short inside then the DB has a chance to make a play. Trent played fine in this game. Trent haters can look elsewhere. BTW the TD pass to Evans, basically a stop fade route, was perfect. Interesting when Fred Jackson catches a short pass and runs for a first down it is a great play by Jackson. When another short pass doesn't go for a first down then it is all Edward's fault. The line continued its horrid play. Trent will be the starter next year with an improved and more experienced line and with a new OC. Another year lost trying to figure out if the QB can play. Again however I would draft a QB in round 3-5. I would not be opposed to getting rid of Fitzy and bringing in more competition either. The only trade I would make though is a second rounder for Kevin Kolb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDaDdy Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 I'm not an Edwards supporter - but it doesn't take a rocket surgeon to go back and look at him two years ago, and figure out that in the past two seasons he's somehow morphed into JP Losman. It also doesn't take a rocket surgeon to look at the past ten YEARS of underperforming QBs and see that over time they all develope the exact same problems of field awareness, timid play, and inability to make quick or decent reads. And given all that, it's not exactly a stretch to figure out that the common thread between all those underperforming QBs ISN'T that they're all Trent Edwards. There's not a QB on the planet that would perform on this team until the real problems are addressed: the lack of any coherent football sense at the head coach level and above. How many "QBs of the future" do the Bills have to sign until everyone starts to realize that? What I see is that we have had a slew of QBs in Buffalo since Jim Kelly that haven't been NFL starting caliber. That is the common thread not that we somehow destroy them regardless of who the coaches are!!! We draft crappy QBs and every few years we bring in a high priced free agent that also sucks. I don't attribute that to the various coaching staffs we have fielded. I attribute it to those things that have remained constant in the front office and ownership who are responsible for the substandard quality QBs we have drafted and brought in as free agents. There are SEVERAL QBs who could do better than Trent with our current situation. Roethlisberger is one of them. Aaron Rogers is obviously another as his line is actually WORSE than ours and he has the sacks to prove it. Due to a number of factors which have already been discussed at length our line IS a shambles. Could Trent be better with a better line? Of course. Could Marshawn be a better RB with a better line? ABSOLUTELY! We cut off our nose to spite our face and we were left with backup and practice squad quality guys trying to fill starting roles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDaDdy Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 First throw was a good throw. He was just late in throwing it which gave TO less room to make a play to the pilon. A completion is a completion but doesn't the verbiage of that statement contradict it being a good throw? If a pass is not on time....uh....and uh.....it doesn't give the WR time to make a play to the pilon.....that it's not a good throw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 There are SEVERAL QBs who could do better than Trent with our current situation. Roethlisberger is one of them. Aaron Rogers is obviously another as his line is actually WORSE than ours and he has the sacks to prove it. No, actually they couldn't. This team has a culture of losing and an attitude of "Don't worry, you did your best, winning is hard" unaccountability surrounding it that would degrade the performance of anyone. Roethlisberger and Rogers wouldn't rise to the occasion, they'd fall to the level of expectations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric in Va Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Neither throw was "good"...they were adequate to get the ball out there. T.O. needed to adjust to both balls which slowed him both times. The angle of the first throw was poor and did not allow him the ability to make the cut back...TO made an attempt reaching for the TD but it was not close enough. My issue was all of the plays that TO beat the young DBs on both sides of the field. Play after play he was open just to have to walk back to the line with nothing close coming his way. What I find to be more concerning is the ability of the DL to stop anyone on a third down. Many times yesterday they get the Titans in a good position only to piss away their hard work. Goal line was a perfect example....POZ is completely over rated and out of position...I think he and McCargo are a waste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 I'm not an Edwards supporter - but it doesn't take a rocket surgeon to go back and look at him two years ago, and figure out that in the past two seasons he's somehow morphed into JP Losman. It also doesn't take a rocket surgeon to look at the past ten YEARS of underperforming QBs and see that over time they all develope the exact same problems of field awareness, timid play, and inability to make quick or decent reads. And given all that, it's not exactly a stretch to figure out that the common thread between all those underperforming QBs ISN'T that they're all Trent Edwards. There's not a QB on the planet that would perform on this team until the real problems are addressed: the lack of any coherent football sense at the head coach level and above. How many "QBs of the future" do the Bills have to sign until everyone starts to realize that? Most will never comprehend this Tom, but you already knew that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Most will never comprehend this Tom, but you already knew that. Or, Bill, it could be that Edwards isn't nearly as good as you or I thought he was capable of being. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDaDdy Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Give me a break. The frist throw was right on the money. Some have suggested it was late and TO had to slow down. If he leads him any further to the sideline then he may be out of bounds or has no chance to turn it up field. The second throw was good but not great. It was safer to throw it to his sideline shoulder and away from the defender. If he throws it to the inside shoulder it is probably a touchdown but if it is a little short inside then the DB has a chance to make a play. Trent played fine in this game. Trent haters can look elsewhere. BTW the TD pass to Evans, basically a stop fade route, was perfect. Interesting when Fred Jackson catches a short pass and runs for a first down it is a great play by Jackson. When another short pass doesn't go for a first down then it is all Edward's fault. The line continued its horrid play. Trent will be the starter next year with an improved and more experienced line and with a new OC. Another year lost trying to figure out if the QB can play. Again however I would draft a QB in round 3-5. I would not be opposed to getting rid of Fitzy and bringing in more competition either. The only trade I would make though is a second rounder for Kevin Kolb. Those were indeed a couple fine pick 6's he threw. He must work on that a lot in practice. If you want continued mediocrity draft a QB in the 3 - 5 round. If you want a shot at a play off or superbowl caliber QB, you better be drafting in the upper half of the first round. YES, of course there are exceptions but if you want a guy that is likely going to pan out you better draft him early. Early is your only shot at POTENTIALLY getting Brains and a Big Arm. If your lucky you also get balls and hopefully that "IT" factor. *SPECIAL NOTE - In the history of the AFL and NFL there has been exactly ONE repeat ONE Tom Brady. Please don't waste my time telling me you can draft a good QB in the 6th round. It has happened once in recorded history and it is not a good strategy for success. If you want to improve your young early first round pick QB's chances for success: 1) An offensive line that is AT LEAST above average 2) An offensive line that can open holes for it's RBs so they don't get hit in the backfield every 3rd play or dance 3) An offensive line that can convert 3 and 1 even when the defense knows you are going to run it. (See 1) 4) An offensive line that is able to pass protect and reliably give it's QB 3 seconds, or more, to throw. 5) A defense that, when rested, can generally keep opponents under 3 TDs most weeks. Since we keep letting our talent go and we refuse to pay them we aren't in good shape to provide those additional things that help to make a young/rookie QB successful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Or, Bill, it could be that Edwards isn't nearly as good as you or I thought he was capable of being. Which was the point that many JP supporters were trying to make 1-2 yrs ago... Edwards looked better because he wasn't Losman Losman looked better because he wasn't Bledsoe Bledsoe looked better because he wasn't Johnson Johnson looked better because he wasn't Flutie Flutie looked better because he wasn't Johnson Johnson looked better because he wasn't Collins Johnson looked better because he wasn't AVP Johnson looked better because he wasn't Billy Joe Bob We hoped Collins looked better than an old immobile Kelly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Or, Bill, it could be that Edwards isn't nearly as good as you or I thought he was capable of being. It's really amusing to search back a year on the board and read people gushing about how great Edwards is. You yourself said he could go down as one of the greatest draft picks in Bills history. Now you're saying he has no skills. Go figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 I said it before, and will say it again, with an accurate QB -- and I'm not talking Manning or Brady -- but decent players like Matt Ryan and Flacco and Shaub -- Terrell Owens is leading or close to leading the league in touchdowns this year with 8 or 9, and that is counting all the drops he has made. He has been open deep every single game and there have been at least eight times where he was there and wide open and the ball was thrown but way inaccurate. Maybe this didnt deserve its own thread but who thinks those two passes were "good" throws when he had all day, wide open WR, and easy TD but got a long completion instead. TO has 1 td catch. As of last week, before the TEN game, he had 23 total catches out of 50 tossed his way, and led the league with 9 drops. TO is no Houshmanzedeh, a player that took pains to help out a Fitz w/ CIN and would help out an Edwards in BUF. Better they signed him. Reed comes closest, I suppose. And he for years, was an object of TBD derision. At least he throws blocks. While we are firing coaches, include the WR coach, whoever he may be... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 It's really amusing to search back a year on the board and read people gushing about how great Edwards is. You yourself said he could go down as one of the greatest draft picks in Bills history. Now you're saying he has no skills. Go figure. Look at my avatar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDaDdy Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 No, actually they couldn't. This team has a culture of losing and an attitude of "Don't worry, you did your best, winning is hard" unaccountability surrounding it that would degrade the performance of anyone. Roethlisberger and Rogers wouldn't rise to the occasion, they'd fall to the level of expectations. I guess we differ in our opinions. I look at the individual as being able to define themselves and their destiny as opposed to the organization doing that for them. I still contend that a competent QB could come in here and do a better job. A QB play off caliber, super bowl caliber QB is accountable to themselves first and foremost. They don't make excuses about having less than ideal surroundings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDaDdy Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Or, Bill, it could be that Edwards isn't nearly as good as you or I thought he was capable of being. Some people can't get a grip on that and realize that maybe Edwards just wasn't starting NFL caliber and no mount of coaching was going to change that. Instead considering that their EXPERT initial assessment of Edwards was wrong they would rather say it is 1000% the coaching staffs fault for ruining the next Joe Montana. Same thing with the Peters situation. Some thought Peters was a bum and Langston Walker/Kirk Chambers could do just as good a job. WRONG!!! When Langston turned out to be COMPLETELY over matched for the job they blamed him for not trying hard enough instead of considering the possibility that they were wrong about how easy it was to replace Peters. How is Kirk Chambers doing for us filling in for Peters...oh ....ya.....riiiiiiight. Same old same old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 I guess we differ in our opinions. I look at the individual as being able to define themselves and their destiny as opposed to the organization doing that for them. I still contend that a competent QB could come in here and do a better job. A QB play off caliber, super bowl caliber QB is accountable to themselves first and foremost. They don't make excuses about having less than ideal surroundings. You ever been coached in anything? You know what the role of a coach is? Here's a hint: it's not limited to game-planning. Nobody exists in a vacuum to the point where he solely determines his own performance in a given environment. That's not even limited to sports, that's management 101. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDaDdy Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Which was the point that many JP supporters were trying to make 1-2 yrs ago... Edwards looked better because he wasn't Losman Losman looked better because he wasn't Bledsoe Bledsoe looked better because he wasn't Johnson Johnson looked better because he wasn't Flutie Flutie looked better because he wasn't Johnson Johnson looked better because he wasn't Collins Johnson looked better because he wasn't AVP Johnson looked better because he wasn't Billy Joe Bob We hoped Collins looked better than an old immobile Kelly Thanks for being able to put things in a historical perspective. People seem to lose site of exactly what you just stated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 I'm not an Edwards supporter - but it doesn't take a rocket surgeon to go back and look at him two years ago, and figure out that in the past two seasons he's somehow morphed into JP Losman. It also doesn't take a rocket surgeon to look at the past ten YEARS of underperforming QBs and see that over time they all develope the exact same problems of field awareness, timid play, and inability to make quick or decent reads. And given all that, it's not exactly a stretch to figure out that the common thread between all those underperforming QBs ISN'T that they're all Trent Edwards. There's not a QB on the planet that would perform on this team until the real problems are addressed: the lack of any coherent football sense at the head coach level and above. How many "QBs of the future" do the Bills have to sign until everyone starts to realize that? Lets be a little more realistic here about 2 years ago...Trent has never, not once, had a good season. 2 years ago, we over looked his lack of production on the hopes that all the hype was true (Bill Walsh endorsement, hes not JP, etc, etc) but he never put any great showings on out there on the field. His best games were solid games at best and were rare. He would have moments where you were like this kid looks like he could be good, and then other moments in the same game that were just terrible. But we all ignored the terrible moments and glamored over the potential he showed in moments he wasnt playing like JP saying he is young and he will only get better. The problem is, he is 100% still the same QB today as he was then. Makes a good throw here and there, makes some bad throws going down field, looks accurate if he throws short and to wide open players, cant read a defense, doesnt have the arm stength to throw the outs and results in INTS or pick sixes, puts up low stats, is a poor downfield passer, etc, etc... So its not that that he is worse now then he was then, its that now he doesnt have the "potential" excuse anymore to glamor him up and hide those flaws as he has been in the league too long now and shown no development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDaDdy Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 You ever been coached in anything? You know what the role of a coach is? Here's a hint: it's not limited to game-planning. Nobody exists in a vacuum to the point where he solely determines his own performance in a given environment. That's not even limited to sports, that's management 101. Let's just assume we have all played sports and been coached pal. I do know this. You can't blame a coach for not being able to polish a turd into a diamond. GOOD players take it upon themselves to improve their game. It's called internal motivation. I suppose in your past sports experience you sat back and waited for the coach to "get the best out of you." Personally I took it upon myself to become a better player. We're speaking to different sides of the same issue. We are arguing "degrees" if you will. You think coaches make the player. I think that players make themselves. IMO coaches are there to "guide" you and help get the best out of you not to MAKE you! If you don't have what it takes no amount of coaching is going to fix that.!!!! Big difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDaDdy Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Lets be a little more realistic here about 2 years ago...Trent has never, not once, had a good season. 2 years ago, we over looked his lack of production on the hopes that all the hype was true (Bill Walsh endorsement, hes not JP, etc, etc) but he never put any great showings on out there on the field. His best games were solid games at best and were rare. He would have moments where you were like this kid looks like he could be good, and then other moments in the same game that were just terrible. But we all ignored the terrible moments and glamored over the potential he showed in moments he wasnt playing like JP saying he is young and he will only get better. The problem is, he is 100% still the same QB today as he was then. Makes a good throw here and there, makes some bad throws going down field, looks accurate if he throws short and to wide open players, cant read a defense, doesnt have the arm stength to throw the outs and results in INTS or pick sixes, puts up low stats, is a poor downfield passer, etc, etc... So its not that that he is worse now then he was then, its that now he doesnt have the "potential" excuse anymore to glamor him up and hide those flaws as he has been in the league too long now and shown no development. Pretty well stated I feel. I know that is personally my issue with him. No progress and we can't use the, "He's young and hasn't played much!" and "He'll only get better!" excuses anymore. We've basically seen enough in all likelihood to know what Trent is going to be for the rest of his career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billfan63 Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Which was the point that many JP supporters were trying to make 1-2 yrs ago... Edwards looked better because he wasn't Losman Losman looked better because he wasn't Bledsoe Bledsoe looked better because he wasn't Johnson Johnson looked better because he wasn't Flutie Flutie looked better because he wasn't Johnson Johnson looked better because he wasn't Collins Johnson looked better because he wasn't AVP Johnson looked better because he wasn't Billy Joe Bob We hoped Collins looked better than an old immobile Kelly Kemp was no Lamonica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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