MDH

What's weak is this board jumping on Gilmore no matter what he does. Everybody has a bad play. Everybody. But nobody lets Gilmore forget his, he is supposed to be perfect. He's actually played well these past three weeks but you'd never know it by reading this board.

When it comes to the Bills it is. If we were Denver fans relentless optimism would be more realistic. It's not one size fits all.

After 3 games EJ was 2-1 as well. One game later he was benched. The offence needs to be better. More points, fewer negative plays, fewer turnovers. This D is capable of carrying the team most weeks, just stop turning the ball over, stop taking needless sacks and being called for ridiculous penalties. This offence keeps putting themselves in holes no matter who the QB is. It's obviously not all on the QB but a lot of it is. Much like some other posters I had a lot of patience with EJ because of his lack of experience. I don't have nearly as much with Orton. I really don't understand the posters who have the opposite opinion. Seems like there were plenty who wanted EJ gone at all costs while they'll overlook Ortons warts. If we should have patience with anybody it should be the young QB learning on the job as he has the ability to get better. With Orton this is what you get. I hope it's good enough for the playoffs.

What's his turnover rate this year? Taking stats from teams that aren't the Bills doesn't mean much to me. And the day Orton is as good as Rivers, Newton, Rogers or Big Ben is the day I overlook some of these turnovers. He doesn't make enough plays to offset them. And why is it that anybody who doesn't say Orton a fantastic QB a "hater?" The guy is a middling QB who needs to hold onto the ball. Stating this does't make me a "hater", it makes me honest. That said, he's better than EJ at this point in their careers so I have no issue with him getting the starting nod.

It could have been an issue as well. If the pass to Watkins was incomplete there likely would have been time for another play. At the 1/2 yard line a run is still on the table at the 1/2 yard line. From the 2 1/2 it's an iffy call. Thankfully it didn't matter but I agree, it was a horrible placement.

Agreed about the OL, it's about as bad as I've seen in recent memory. However, at some point you'd expect the coaches to somehow, you know, coach those players to understand the proper protections. Half the time the OL looks confused out there, like they haven't a clue who is their responsibility. Nobody seems to be able to recognize a stunt and pick up their responsibility. It's tough to know if this is solely on the players or the coaches aren't doing their job of getting their blocking schemes across. I don't absolve the coaching staff from the OL's struggles. Yeah, the one thing I demand out of a game manager type QB (which Orton is) is to play within themselves. Don't try to do too much, you're not Brett Favre. Make the plays that you're capable of and if you have to eat a sack or throw the ball away then do it. That play was simply idiotic.

I believe the idea was the make our pedestrian QB(s) better. I think it's worked. The OL does the QBs no favors either, which also hurts the WR numbers.

How many have better QBs?

We won't say that. We'll wonder why Spiller was in front of him in the RB rotation.

They can get 2 plays if Orton gets rid of the ball immediately.

Can we really blame EJ for checking down so much given how this OL blocks? Just atrocious. No QB can look good behind it.

Why is there no timeout on 4th down? WTF?

The D might have only allowed 16 points but they come up small in big spots.

2nd and 13 Boobie up the middle to set up a "manageable" 3rd and 10. Ugh. 3rd down sack, figures.

We run the worst swing and screen passes in the league.

They apparently enjoy getting the ball at the 12 yard line. This entire game is just a cluster.

Yeah, I'm not a fan of Kyle Orton. Every week he has these turnovers and he's not a good enough QB to make up for them.

I can't believe the Bills coaching staff feels Hogan is better than Mike Williams. It's mind boggling.

Illegal formation by kicking team, 12 players on the field on a 4th and 1. This is a joke.

Ask and you shall receive. Free 1st down!

You can say this after every game in the last 15 years and be right most of the time.

nope.

At least they didn't fumble the ball. A punt at this point is an improvement.

Vikes have a rookie QB playing in his first road start against a team who can't hold onto the ball. I'd play it safe too.

Hogan fumbles, Woods fumbles, Sammy drops a ball and doesn't finish a route. Let's give Mike Williams some looks. Can't be any worse.