BillsVet

Kirwan wrote a book a few years ago that listed the order of importance on OL as: LT, RT, LG, C, RG. Take it for what it is. However, the case can be made that pay indicates value. Contracts for LG's are far and away more numerous and higher than centers. Jahri Evans, Davin Joseph, Logan Mankins, the old Hutchinson deal in MIN, Levitre, Dockery way back when, Carl Nicks, and others. According to sportrac, 2 centers have base salaries of more than 4M per. http://www.spotrac.com/rankings/nfl/guard/'>http://www.spotrac.com/rankings/nfl/guard/ 8 guards have 4M+ base deals. http://www.spotrac.com/rankings/nfl/guard/ I realize there are bonuses and such, but the demand is clearly on guards over centers.

NO allowed Nicks to depart after they gave Jahri Evans a huge deal. Hutchinson's contract contained a poison pill such that SEA couldn't match. Vasquez got a 4 yr 23.5M deal, which isn't massive. Your argument is pure sophistry here. And so what if this was the first year guards were drafted higher? Teams have been paying more for them for years, particularly LG's who need to be mobile. Finding interior who can move and pass block is more challenging given the pass-happy offenses which have evolved. Teams aren't looking for the OLineman that Nix preferred, who needed to be 320+. I criticize the Bills for having stunk for almost a decade and a half with another rebuild staring them in the face. If criticism isn't warranted now because there are new people, then so be it. Fandom does not mean living in fantasy land. We've been down this road before.

It's more nuanced than simply saying pay the man obviously. Certainly positional value, the player himself and scheme must be factored. However, it's clear teams have re-evaluated interior lineman and placed more emphasis on the mobile types who excel at pass-blocking, which Levitre certainly was. More are being drafted and guards are getting bigger contracts. The Bills went out and spent a first round pick on a new QB and proceeded to allow their best OL to depart and replaced him with journeymen. When we talk about synergy, it's certainly not at OBD because for each talented player they add, one is removed from the equation. In this case, they did it before the QB came on board. I'd even argue that a LG is more important than a center, given the physical requirements to be good there are far less available than playing center.

We're back to the player being required to bow to the will of the team. When did that become so? Parker went to the team with a well-researched offer and the Bills didn't agree. Thereafter, there was little to no negotiations. Why would a player and agent take a likely large hometown discount with the entire NFL community, players, agents, team executives watching? Parker would lose major points for having his player agree to something beneath the going rate as would Byrd because it short-circuits other players from winning bigger contracts when they're up. Players go from hero to zero among the homer crowd faster that a Ferrari goes 0 to 60.

Spiller is signed through 2015. Dareus through 2014. Neither have any Pro Bowl or All-Pro selections yet, but apparently will merit new contracts down the road. There isn't a soul on this board, who, if they were in Byrd's shoes, would be happy with a 1 year guarantee. Nor would they be happy with a one year deal when fellow and sometimes lesser talented players have 4 or 5 year contracts with plenty of guaranteed money. A guy like Goldson or Weddle have a minimum of 18-20M coming their way. Byrd has his 6.9M. If only people could place themselves in the players shoes, but apparently fandom overrides that ability.

Fred Jackson: Re-signed to a 3 year 10.8M contract extension Steve Johnson: Re-signed to a 5 year 36.25M contract extension Erik Pears: Re-signed to a 4 year 9.8M contract extension Kraig Urbik: Re-signed to a 4 year 13.3M contract extension Eric Wood: Re-signed to a 4 year 25.4M contract extension Kyle Williams: Re-signed to a 6 year 33.6M contract extension Scott Chandler: Re-signed to a 2 year 5.5M contract extension Jackson, Pears, Urbik, and Chandler inked smaller contracts with little guaranteed money. Williams' deal is above average and Stevie got a decent sized contract. But none of those players are 1st or 2nd team All-Pro caliber players and Byrd is, or at least has played at that level.

Apparently the team is never wrong, especially when it involves players who won't toe the line. Few here ever place value on a player outside of their pay. Had the Bills signed Peters, they would have had a top LT as indicated by his multiple All-Pro selections, a much better OL overall, and would not have had to draft and OT in the 2nd of 2012. That's great strategy there. It succeeds in 1) reminding up and comers how the team deals with you if your agent drives a hard bargain 2) ensures free agents pass on you and no Mario contract can undo that and 3) sends a message the team is not in it to win it any more. Franchising him for 1 year is not a plan. The Bills did the same thing with Clements and never adequately replaced him, despite multiple high picks used on CB's. I would be more open to going this route if I thought guys like Searcy were better than they are. Or 4th and 5th rounders like Duke Williams and Meeks were capable. But we don't know that and neither do the Bills. So once again they'll jettison proven talent that would require financial commitment in hopes unproven types will replace them. Very unlikely given their track record.

That analytics department must be burning the midnight oil now with all this data pouring in.

Absolutely. It worked back then, so why wouldn't it work now? The Bills have frequently tried to solve their "problem" players by dealing them, or at best with short term solutions. Franchising Clements for a season, trading McGahee (post-Buffalo comments), trading Peters, it's their M.O. In the end it leaves them with one fewer proven player.

How did they end up 6-10 last season then?

Yep. Doesn't make sense that in 2010 the Bills couldn't get interviews, with numerous guys turning them down, and them having to hire their emergency guy. 3 years later after winning 1/3 of their games and with a bare cupboard of talent the team all of sudden is a great landing spot? There can be no other conclusion.

I remember during the Marv rebuild the stock response was you can't build it all in 1 year We're in the second rebuild after that one, but all have featured at one first round DB and RB. Donahoe had Clements and McGahee. Levy/Brandon/Jauron had Whitner, McKelvin, and Lynch. Gailey had Gilmore and Spiller. Multiple rebuilds with multiple GM's all allocating significant resources toward the DB and RB positions. Either it's very coincidental or something else is going on.

Hard to take tight ends when you are rebuilding every 3-4 years with runnin' backs and CB's. OP is correct and quibbling about it is pointless. Having a good offense means having a good or better receiving TE.

Where is Dick Jauron and his affinity for taking CB's in every round? Oh how the Bills have fallen.

Russ Brandon in January on Buddy NIx: "When you look at where we are today compared to where we were three years ago, it is unquestioned that our personnel and our roster is in a much better position than it was three years ago" So why should it take more than a year after the team president himself assured us the team is much better?

Nothing like being a win-later team after 13 seasons without winning double digits and through 4 separate rebuilds. Was Whaley allowed to make decisions from February 2010-April 2013 when he was Nix's understudy? It's hard to tell.

Or perhaps the people supervising the personnel department are not giving them the tools to build a roster. Several coaches and GM's before Whaley and Marrone have not succeeded in Buffalo. Some were clearly not good or worse, but failure does not happen in a vacuum. There needs to be more focus on the people at the top, many of whom have been around for much or all of this decade plus of no playoffs.

We're talking about 2 different things. I'm referring to how management equips their personnel department for success. You're a step lower in the food chain discussing decisions that the personnel group makes. This off-season has demonstrated that financially the team is making the same types of decisions. Letting Levitre go, not coming to terms with Byrd on a long term deal, and to my knowledge not initiating talks with another offensive lineman leading to his walk year. How is that different than previous years when they franchised Clements and got nothing for him? Letting Fletcher go. Letting Jabari Greer walk for nothing. Trading Peters for a late first. The team didn't have a decent replacement on the roster for them, and it's happening again. That tells me that regardless of who the GM or HC is, it doesn't matter. Other people are immersing themselves in the decision making process and those decisions aren't all that much different than they were years ago. What's changed? When talent walks and the team uses the draft to replace it, you're not building. You're hopefully maintaining, which is what the Bills have done by keeping themselves in the bad to mediocre category.

So you believe that Russ Brandon's management of the organization will be different than a Ralph Wilson led franchise? If so, well, you're entitled to your opinion. I have a hard time believing that it will differ much and Brandon would not have risen to his current position if he didn't learn how the boss wanted things. Problem with the Bills over the lost decade is they've never built a roster. Now, they add a QB, but then let their best OL go and haven't opened negotiations with another former high draft pick. And they're unable to come to terms with one of the best safeties in football. So yeah, they took A QB. But have they ever built a team from top to bottom? It's always add a piece, lose a piece, stir interest with a big name UFA signing now and then, wash, rinse, repeat. That, IMO, is how you remain a 4-7 win team for 8 seasons. And there's nothing like resorting to insults to back your point up.

Nice straw man argument there. For the record, I wasn't enthused about the Kolb signing given his doing almost nothing in the NFL and injury history. But true fan-hood apparently now means you don't criticize the team, we're not supposed to come down hard on the franchise. There's apparently new management in charge and we should give them time before offering an opinion. Kolb was the latest in a long line of cast-offs brought in by this franchise who somehow were going to resurrect their careers. Holcomb, Fitz, VY, Tarvaris, and Kolb. At what point do people start questioning the QB decisions the franchise makes at the most important position? Based on the evidence, it appears the Bills don't know what they're doing at QB, despite having a new GM and HC. EJ had better be good and healthy because there's nothing behind him but UDFA talent and Matt Leinart.

"New" regime. Same old bad decision making,

Tarvaris wasn't available?

At some point the personnel on the DL need to be questioned. With all the supposed talent there, I would think they could stop the run, which no Bills defense has done in almost forever. And regardless of it being pre-season, the Pat White/Rex Grossman trio should not be beating you through the air like that. This will be a season of growing pains and that's precisely what happens when you have so many rookie or 2nd year players starting like Buffalo has. But what's more concerning is the DL should be a strength and yesterday it wasn't. I guess I should apologize in advance for my negativity.

We'll see how much different, spending-wise, the franchise is with President Russ versus the previous regime. Something tells me it'll be more similar that many expect or want.

Just really busy this time of year. Following the team, but from a marked distance for the first time in a while.