folz

Obviously Cowher was a head coach longer and had quite a bit of early success, but on just a whim I thought I would compare the two coaches stats during just the years they were both head coaches, especially since they coached in the same division, so they were meeting similar opponents and each other twice a year... Cowher coached Pitt from 1992 to 2006; Billick coached Bal from 1999 to 2007, so, their overlap years were 1999 to 2006. 1999 Pitt 6-10 Bal 8-8 2000 Pitt 9-7 Bal 12-4 won the superbowl 2001 Pitt 13-3 lost to NE in AFC Championship Bal 10-6 lost to Pitt in Divisional round of playoffs 2002 Pitt 10-5-1 lost to Tenn in Divisional round of playoffs Bal 7-9 2003 Pitt 6-10 Bal 10-6 lost to Tenn in Wild Card game 2004 Pitt 15-1 lost to NE in AFC Championship game Bal 9-7 2005 Pitt 11-5 won the Superbowl Bal 6-10 2006 Pitt 8-8 Bal 13-3 lost to Colts in divisional round So: Cowher 78-49-1 60.9375 winning % 5 winning seasons 4 playoff appearances 1 Superbowl Billick 75-53 58.59375 winning % 5 winning seasons 4 playoff appearances 1 Superbowl Head to Head in the regular season they faced each other 16 times with each coach winning 8 times; Cowher and the Steelers did win their only playoff meeting in 2001. Cowher would still be my first choice (if he wants to come), he did go to the playoffs 6 of 7 years (1992-1998) before Billick took over in Baltimore. Overall Cowher made playoffs 10 of 15 years, Billick made playoffs 4 of 9 years...but maybe Cowher doesn't make as many playoffs early on if Billick was coaching in Baltimore during those early years and they were battling for the division every year like they were from 1999-2006. Anyhow, while they were both coaching in the same division things were pretty even, so maybe overall there isn't as big a difference as many of us may have assumed. I'd be more than ok with Billick if Cowher doesn't want to come.

In the Vic Carucci thread someone said that on Sirius radio Vic said the talent level was so bad on the Bills team that 1/2 to 2/3 of the roster would be cut under new management. So it got me wondering who I and the rest of you think are worthy of sticking around if (I mean when, please when) we get a new GM and head coach. I pasted the roster below for easy reference and listed who I think would or should stay below that. What do you all think? ROSTER # NAME POS. HT. WT. AGE YRS. COLLEGE 77 Bell, Demetrius OL 6-5 307 25 1 Northwestern State University 31 Byrd, Jairus S 5-10 200 23 R Oregon 73 Chambers, Kirk T 6-7 315 30 5 Stanford 27 Corner, Reggie CB 5-9 175 25 2 University of Akron 57 Corto, Jon LB 6-1 220 25 2 Sacred Heart 92 Denney, Ryan DE 6-7 264 32 8 BYU 52 Draft, Chris LB 5-11 234 33 11 Stanford 5 Edwards, Trent QB 6-4 231 26 3 Stanford 93 Ellis, Chris DE 6-4 261 24 2 Virginia Tech 56 Ellison, Keith LB 6-0 229 25 4 Oregon State 83 Evans, Lee WR 5-10 197 28 6 Wisconsin 86 Fine, Derek TE 6-3 247 26 2 Kansas 14 Fitzpatrick, Ryan QB 6-2 225 26 4 Harvard 29 Florence, Drayton CB 6-0 195 28 7 Tuskegee 10 Hamdan, Gibran QB 6-4 220 28 3 Indiana 63 Hangartner, Geoff OL 6-5 301 27 5 Texas A&M 84 Hardy, James WR 6-5 220 23 2 Indiana 54 Harris, Nic LB 6-2 232 23 R Oklahoma 22 Jackson, Fred RB 6-1 215 28 3 Coe College 17 Jenkins, Justin WR 6-0 207 28 3 Mississippi State 91 Johnson, Spencer DT 6-3 286 27 6 Auburn 13 Johnson, Steve WR 6-2 202 23 2 University of Kentucky 35 Johnson, Todd DB 6-1 204 30 6 Florida 90 Kelsay, Chris DE 6-4 261 30 7 Nebraska 25 Lankster, Ellis CB 5-9 190 22 R West Virginia 67 Levitre, Andy OL 6-2 305 23 R Oregon State 9 Lindell, Rian K 6-3 233 32 10 Washington State 23 Lynch, Marshawn RB 5-11 215 23 3 Cal 58 Maybin, Aaron DE 6-4 250 21 R Penn State 97 McCargo, John DT 6-2 307 26 4 NC State 24 McGee, Terrence CB 5-9 198 29 7 Northwestern State 38 McIntyre, Corey FB 6-0 258 30 5 West Virginia 68 McKinney, Seth OL 6-3 310 30 8 Texas A&M 69 Meredith, Jamon OL 6-5 304 23 R South Carolina 8 Moorman, Brian P 6-0 172 33 9 Pittsburgh State 89 Nelson, Shawn TE 6-5 240 24 R Southern Mississippi 81 Owens, Terrell WR 6-3 224 35 14 Tennessee-Chattanoog 59 Palmer, Ashlee LB 6-1 236 23 R Mississippi 11 Parrish, Roscoe WR 5-9 178 27 5 Miami (Fla.) 51 Posluszny, Paul LB 6-1 238 25 3 Penn State 82 Reed, Josh WR 5-10 210 29 8 LSU 65 Sanborn, Garrison LS 6-0 240 24 R Florida State 94 Schobel, Aaron DE 6-4 243 32 9 TCU 43 Scott, Bryan S 6-1 219 28 7 Penn State 79 Scott, Jonathan OL 6-6 318 26 3 Texas 99 Stroud, Marcus DT 6-6 310 31 9 Georgia 88 Stupar, Jonathan TE 6-3 254 25 1 Virginia 21 Wendling, John S 6-1 222 26 3 Wyoming 20 Whitner, Donte S 5-10 208 24 4 Ohio State 95 Williams, Kyle DT 6-1 306 26 4 Louisiana State 37 Wilson, George S 6-0 212 28 4 Arkansas 70 Wood, Eric OL 6-4 315 23 R Louisville 26 Youboty, Ashton CB 5-11 189 25 4 Ohio State INJURED RESERVE # NAME POS. HT. WT. AGE YRS. COLLEGE 53 Buggs, Marcus LB 5-10 223 24 2 Vanderbilt 60 Butler, Brad OL 6-7 315 26 4 Virginia 25 Hairston, Justise RB 6-1 210 26 1 Central Connecticut 71 McGhee, Jermaine DE 6-2 257 25 1 Prairie View A&M 28 McKelvin , Leodis CB 5-10 184 24 2 Troy 55 Mitchell, Kawika LB 6-1 253 30 7 South Florida 61 Philip, Marvin C 6-1 307 27 1 California 40 Sargeant, Lydell DB 6-1 187 22 R Penn State 80 Schouman, Derek TE 6-2 223 24 3 Boise State 98 Smith, Marcus DE 6-4 295 25 1 Arizona PRACTICE SQUAD # NAME POS. HT. WT. AGE YRS. COLLEGE 42 Hall, Bruce RB 5-11 205 24 1 Mississippi 47 Harris, Cary DB 5-11 187 22 R USC 18 Hawthorne, C.J. WR 5-11 168 25 1 Hawaii 74 Hennessey, Nick OL 6-5 291 23 R Colgate 15 Huggins, Felton WR 6-2 186 26 1 Southeastern Louisia 75 Mace, Corey DT 6-3 287 23 2 Wyoming 76 Ramsey, Andre OL 6-5 322 22 R Ball State 50 Waters, Anthony LB 6-3 238 So, my amateur opinion would be (based on talent-level alone, I didn't take into consideration their salary or contracts or numbers at particular positions, etc.): Definitely Keep Jarius Byrd Lee Evans Marshawn Lynch Fred Jackson Eric Wood Marcus Stroud Brian Moorman Terrence McGee Leodis McKelvin Paul Posluszny Shawn Nelson Andy Levitre Reggie Corner Kyle Williams (even if we were to upgrade and he wasn't starting) Definitely Keep due to potential (even if not starter) Demetius Bell Steve Johnson Aaron Maybin Nic Harris Would Probably Keep Rian Lindell Aaron Schobel (although could be a victim due to age and injuries) Bryan Scott (seems solid) Brad Butler (would be happy with him as a backup swing OL) On the Bubble Trent Edwards (a lot rides on how he finishes out this season) Drayton Florence Geoff Hangartner Chris Kelsay (although I do think he's played well this year) Ellis Lankster Terrell Owens (who knows what's going on with him) James Hardy (could he break out in third year?) Jamon Meredith Donte Whitner Kawika Mitchell George Wilson (just because I like him) Lydell Sargeant (Don't really know enough yet one way or the other) Ashlee Palmer (ditto) Ashton Youbouty (although injury history may totally ruin his chances) As harsh as it sounds, everyone else looks expendable or easily replaceable to me. It might take some time to replace them, but I don't know that we would ever miss them. So, out of 71 players (including IR and Practice Squad) I would definitely keep 18 players, would probably keep 4 more, and maybe 6 to 9 more from the bubble guys...so that's 28-31 of 71 or an average of keeping only 39% to 44% of the players currently with the team. I really expected when I started this that I would disagree with Carucci and say that it wouldn't be nearly as high as two thirds, but my list isn't far from that. If only two of the bubble players were to stick around we'd be at Vic's two thirds. What do you all think? Anyone I forgot? Anyone I listed you wouldn't keep around? Are we really this bad?

With Fred playing so well in the first two games it seemed that we didn't miss Marshawn as much we thought we might...but I was wondering if we did really miss him in the New Orleans game. With the way the NO D-line was playing would we have had a better chance in that game if we were pounding the middle with Marshawn early in the game even if we weren't making big plays at first, just to start to wear them down and then when Fred came in they'd have to adjust to his game, and then switch them up and keep their D off balance. Maybe I'm just clutching at straws, but could Marshawn's return be just what this offense needs to get moving again? (Along with the O-line staying healthy and progressing, of course). Beauty and the Beast (our version of thunder and lightning)...here's to hoping. Marshawn's response when a reporter asked him if sitting the 3 games made him hungrier to play: "I'm always hungry and now it's time to eat."

Like San Jose Bills Fan said, this move had nothing to do with John Guy...this was all about our College/Draft staff and then maybe what the coaches saw in the preseason. And since we were looking for OTs in the draft they probably scouted this guy out and knew a lot about him. Despite what many say about Brandon being a marketing guy, we have had some real good drafts under his watch and with Nix added to the mix it looks like our College staff is pretty darn good, so I'm excited about this move...homegrown Oline is going to be better than journeyman or past-their-prime vets line, the youngs guys may stumble here and there, but the future is looking good. Now these moves were John Guy (except for letting Peters go)...I guess we know where the weak link on the staff is and why the team may have gone in the direction they did this time around. And I'm sure the way our young (smart/athletic) Olinemen are playing probably gave the coaches/FO some confidence to go with another young (smart/atheletic) guy. Everyone was so worried that we didn't draft an OT after Peters left...and now its basically like we did, a fifth rounder with a lot of potential that some had projected as high as the 2nd round. And did you see the kid's arms and shoulders in video 3 that gflande1 posted on page 7?

I think these guys summed it up best...why fight over who is number one/starting? It doesn't matter if it is Evans or Owens or Lynch or Jackson...they will all be productive (hopefully) doing what each one does best and they're all going to get their touches and help out the team. Fred and Marshawn are going to be a two-headed monster...with these two backs, we can spread you out or pound it down your throat... the only thing I would say is that Marshawn (and f'n MacGahee) could learn a lot from Fred about being a more patient back and waiting for your blocks to set up...that definitely reminded me of TT as Reed83Evans pointed out how Fred set up and patiently worked off his blocks.

When was the last time we saw our O-line making significant blocks on the second level let alone on the third level? These guys we're making successful blocks down the field...look at Freddy's TD...Hangartner makes a key block on the outside at the second level and Levitre and Evans are at the goal line blocking (10 yards from the line of scrimmage) to get Fred in the endzone. So much for big, slow, soft lineman...bring on the young, smart, athletic guys who can pull and finish blocks. Things are looking up (despite the heartbreaking loss)...as soon as these guys have more experience, more knowledge of eachother, and cut down on the rookie mistakes...they could be scarey good. And even though we lost, loved watching us kill the Pats early and often with the screen...I've seen way too many games where it was the reverse.

I know we've all been burned one time too often...we're afraid to still have hope cause we don't want to get crushed again...we've lost faith in our coaches and our FO and our team looks like a train wreck from the outside...but ya know what? On Monday night...there's a Bills game on and I can't wait! We're 0-0...there's always a sliver of hope...so let's wait and see what the boys are made of before we write them off..."Was it over when the Germans bombed Peral Harbor?...and it ain't over now...who's with me...AHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!" 50 years! The Kool-Aid is on the house!

Just speculating... Maybe Schouman and Fine are better blockers and the team is expecting Nelson to be the main pass catching TE. So they didn't think they'd need Stupar's receiving skills and if he wasn't a better blocker than the other two, he had to be the odd man out. While Maybin and Ellis both look very promising, Mayb is a rookie and Ellis is still unproven. If you cut Denny and Kelsey to keep Cope, then the team has another position where they are expecting young guys to come through without a plan B. I'm sure they hope the young guys come on and steal the starting spots, but they at least know they will get solid play from the vets (not stellar, but solid) so they won't be up a creek if the young guys don't come through early in the season.

I'm not totally defending Jauron here...but to me it sounds like everyone knew there was a problem with the offense and something needed to be done, but Schonert was digging in his heels and not wanting to change things. It kind of sounds like he dug his own grave by not being willing to change things up at the request of the head coach no less. according to Gaughan: Besides the results, Schonert rubbed some members of the organization the wrong way by not being as open to their suggestions as they thought he should be, sources within the team said. His connection with quarterback Trent Edwards also was a concern within the team, which also might have been related to Schonert's autocratic style. http://www.buffalonews.com/452/story/784899.html And he (Schonert) talked about the serious philosophical differences he had with Jauron about the Bills offense. "He (Jauron) told me the offense wasn't simple enough for him," Schonert said. "We had too many formations, too many plays. I didn't simplify it to his liking." "He wants a 'Pop Warner' offense," Schonert said, referring to the Bills head coach. "He limited me in formations, and limited me in plays. He's been on my back all offseason. per Tim Graham: The first internal sign of concern became evident earlier this week when receiver Lee Evans said he sought personal reassurance from the coaching staff that the offense would be more productive. "We needed to see something different," Evans said. "We wanted to hear that things were OK." http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4446060 Lee Evans Tweeted this, "I was surprised to hear we fired our O.C. He was a good dude and I learned a lot from him. It changes things but I’m looking forward to working and winning with the new O.C.” – Lee Evans Kawika Mitchell Tweeted, "No. Dick wouldnt do it if it wasnt rite. Its a tuff biz but if ur not producin" http://www.wgr550.com/Sports/5152829 Then there were the candid comments from Trent about the coaching and obviously a lot of frustration from the players. imo, Jauron's biggest detriment as a coach is not his lack of enthusiasm or clock management or what have you, it's the fact that he can never seem to hire a qualified Offensive Coordinator and then sticking with those guys no matter what...maybe with his butt on the line he has finally seen his error...we don't know what we have in AVP yet and I'm sure there will be some growing pains...but its got to be better if everyone is working on the same page rather than fighting and dissention. Coaching is about collaboration...working with the other coaches, listening to your players, etc. I also agree with Dan's post on page 1 that simpler might be better...

I know we're all a little frustrated and nervous about the upcoming season... But, why all the hate for Aaron? He's been a Bill for a long time, played hard for our team and had some great seasons... I can understand people questioning whether he's lost a step or should be starting or whatever, but some posts are just spewed with venom towards him. Why? He's been a career-long Bill, who exceeded expectations and was solid for our team for years. Show some respect to a true Buffalo Bill. Since the 2001 season he ranks second in total sacks, only behind Jason Taylor. He started in 116 consecutive games with the Bills from 2003[1] until 2008 2 Pro Bowls

I haven't heard about his ST play, but Lankster has been a beast in the practice setting as well (from what I've read). And seriously, most of our DBs are young and may take a while to become top performers, but we are stacked: McGee, McKelvin, Florence, Corner, Youbouty, Lankster, and even Sargeant and Harris have shown some promise. If only every position was as stacked as CB, RB, and WR.

MSN Fox Sports put out their offensive power positional rankings...I know, who cares what the media has to say, but for the curious... QB: 12th__I was a bit surprised we ranked that high, not because I don't believe in Trent, but didn't think the media was sold yet OL: 28th__Understandable due to 2 rookies and all the changes, although I think they'll turn out a lot better than that WR/TE: 3rd__Behind just Arizona and the Patriots RB: 17th__This surprised me quite a bit though, 17th? really? http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/9735822...gs:-QB-packages http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/9848856...gs:-OL-packages http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/9787230...-WR/TE-packages http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/9746990...gs:-RB-packages

I think all fans should be critical of the coaching staff and performances on the field if its lacking (and it has been), but I think the point of the original post is that its the off season so there isn't anything to be critical about right now and yet so many posts no matter what the topic is turns into "Who cares, our coach is a proven loser, 6-10 next year" If people want to start a thread about Jauron's inadequacies as a coach, go for it, but to just jump into every thread (not saying you personally LGB) to say Jauron is a loser we're doomed gets old. He's our coach to start next season whether anyone likes it or not and calling him a loser won't change it...so lets talk about other things and when they start playing games again if the team tanks, everyone can start ranting again about Jauron. A lot of us, who are trying to stay positive for next season, aren't saying Jauron is a world beater, but considering he will be our coach next year and we can't change it, we're willing to stand behind him and give him another chance...what other choice is there? And, of course, talent matters when assessing a coaches record, how could it not? See my post on page 3 of this thread, the comparison isn't saying Jauron is as good of a coach as Bellicheck, but saying Bellicheck wasn't successful until his 7th year as a head coach, so its not unheard of for a coach to seem like a perennial loser and then start winning. People continue to learn and grow until the day they die, people get better at their jobs the longer they do them..."experience is the best teacher"...at what age do you think people can't get better at something? 40, 50, 60?

Pretty realistic take and says what most on TBD say, its going to come down to how well the lines play... But, I found these points interesting as these are some players I have heard posters question... "And fourth-year pro Kyle Williams has emerged as one of the preeminent run-defenders in the NFL. Williams doesn’t have Stroud’s size or explosive strength, but he shows better leverage and makes a ton of plays on second effort." "This would also allow veteran strong safety Bryan Scott to start and continue the resurgence of his once-promising career." "The group is headlined by third-year stud Paul Posluszny, a classic Mike ‘Backer who thrives in this Cover 2 scheme."

I don't think anyone is saying Jauron is or will be Bellicheck or do what he's done, but I do think the Cleveland/Bellicheck argument is valid as far as saying someone might still have success even if his career started off slow...I'm not saying Jauron is one of the best coaches in the league but I hate the "The truth is he just sucks" or "Once a loser always a loser" arguments because it precludes the fact that talent has anything to do with a team's record or that a person can learn, grow, and get better no matter how old he is. Jauron's and Bellicheck's record with their first teams (in 5 seasons each) is almost identical and Bellicheck's winning percentage after 6 years as a head coach was 42.7%. I'm sure people were saying "Once a loser always a loser". Then Brady took over as QB and they go on an amazing run. I'm not saying its all due to Brady (and not the coaching) but it sure hasn't hurt Bellicheck and his record either. I'm willing to go into this season optimistic and giving Jauron another chance now that he has more talent to work with and if the team tanks, no doubt he will be fired, so let's give him one more chance. Bill Bellicheck 5 years in Cleveland 36-44 45% winning pct (1 winning season) 1991 6-10 1992 7-9 1993 7-9 1994 11-5 1995 5-11 1st year in New England 5-11 Then Tom Brady took over the team and they have had 8 winning seasons and the 3 *SBs (obviously last year's winning record can't be due to Brady, though) Dick Jauron 5 years in Chicago 35-45 43.75% winning pct (1 winning season) 1999 6-10 2000 5-11 2001 13-3 2002 4-12 2003 7-9 Jauron's detractors count the 5 games as interim coach as a full season of coaching for Jauron, but please it was Detroit and he was only interim coach I don't see as how you can really pin that 1-4 on him at that point. 3 years in Buffalo, three 7-9 seasons So Bellicheck had 1 good season in 6 years as head coach and then broke out in his 7th season (the season Brady started) Jauron has had 1 good season in 8 years as head coach. Can he break out this year? Here's hoping. Go Bills!

RW didn't pay big for Polian, he was a virtual unknown when he came to the Bills not the consensus "genius" he later became. From an article on "Goliath" "Polian paid the bills by selling advertising for American Farmer magazine, but he followed his heart to jobs coaching football at the U.S. Merchant Marine Academy and scouting--for next to nothing--for the Canadian Football League's Montreal Allouettes. In Montreal, Polian's work caught the eye of Levy, the Allouettes' coach at the time. "I said, 'Who the hell is this Bill Polian?'" recalled Levy. "His notes were impeccable, well-detailed, and most importantly, his scouting reports were incredibly accurate." At last, Polian had an ally inside professional football. After being hired as a scout with the Kansas City Chiefs in 1978, when Levy was coaching there, Polian quickly distinguished himself. But still his path to greatness was anything but direct--and as slow as Booger McFarland in the 40-yard dash. He bounced to the fledgling U.S. Football League's Chicago Blitz in 1982, and worked for the CFL's Winnipeg Blue Bombers for two seasons. He arrived in Buffalo in 1985 (actually 1984) on the heels of back-to-back 2-14 seasons as an unknown." From Wikipedia: "He was originally hired as director of pro personnel, where he impressed Bills Owner Ralph Wilson by telling then-coach Kay Stephenson "We were 2-14 on merit--we have the worst personnel in the NFL". On February 7, 1985, Bills general manager Terry Bledsoe suffered a heart attack and Polian was named along with, director of scouting, Norm Pollom, to handle contract negotiations in Bledsoe's absence. Polian was instrumental in the signing of Bruce Smith to his first NFL contract. This impressed the Bills' hierarchy enough to warrant a promotion to GM, after the firing of Bledsoe, in 1985. The fans were not impressed with the promotion of Polian however. Most observers considered the move business as usual, on a 2-14 team." Sounds a lot like Brandon's in-house promotion with the fans bitching (not to say Brandon will become Polian-esque or that he had as much football experience, but when Polian was promoted to GM he was no sure homerun). GO BILLS!

I agree that a lot will be riding on whether the OL and QB can play well this year... And I have always said that Jauron's biggest weakness as a coach has been his selection of OCs. But, in his defense (as far as his game plans or playing not to lose) look at the QBs he has had over the years (Miller, JP, Trent--who even if he turns out to be good, he was a rookie and 2nd year player so far for Jauron and young QBs make mistakes). Jauron hasn't had elite talent on his offenses with the Bears or Bills, so maybe in that situation you have to play it safe. Would you as a coach give JP the green light to sling away like Favre, Brady, or Manning? How about Miller? How about Trent as a rookie? Part of the FO's job is to get us excited about new players and the season to come to where maybe we (at least the homers) have overestimated our talent level and expected too much from the O. But maybe Jauron didn't have much choice but to play it close to the vest because he knew all too well about the true talent level of the team (especially the O-line's ability to protect the QB for enough time, no proven 2nd WR, etc.). Just because you want to open it up, doesn't mean that you can. Like it or not Jauron's our coach for this season. Let's see what he and Turk can do with some improved talent... and if they can't do anything, play too conservatively and lose then the change will be made. But let's suck it up and give him one more chance. The only other choice is to remain bitter. Spartacus, what I think you overlook with posters like that is they are not saying Walker is equal to or better than Peters as a player, but that Peters played way below his potential last year and that Walker should at least play up to Peters' play of last year. Unless you think we got Jason's best last year. So saying there won't be a drop off isn't speaking overall talent-wise, but from an improvement or drop-off from last year. Its like when people say whoever plays OLB will be a dropoff from Crowell, but Crowell didn't play last year so from last year to this its either a push (Ellison for Ellison) or improvement someone steps up and plays better.

I'm not saying we couldn't use more talent, but I definitely think you underrate some of our players as well as the FO and coaching staff. Josh Reed is better than mediocre as a slot receiver, I think Fine and Nelson will be the TEs over Schouman (or Fine and Schouman if Nelson doesn't come on), Ellison and Kelsey may not be full time starter material, but there is no way they are garbage, and Simpson won't be the starting FS, it'll be either Byrd or Whitner. Plus, so many of our guys are young with a lot of potential...Lynch is still getting better, Evans production should increase significantly, TE should get better, Poz should get better, the rookies will get better. There is a lot of unproven talent on this roster that give this team a lot of upside. I think your ratings will be significantly better by the end of next season. Here is my take: OFFENSE QB.Edwards=Average (but I think he'll move up to good this year) RB.Lynch=Good (but Lynch, Jackson, Rhodes as a group could be great) FB.McIntyre=Mediocre WR.Evans=Good (with possibility of moving up to great with T.O opposite him) WR.Owens=Great (Has been elite, but is he still? I'll leave him at great) WR. Reed=Average to good (he may be mediocre as a 2nd WR, but in the slot he'll be pretty good) TE.Fine, Nelson (not Schouman)=Mediocre (I think it'll move up to at least average, but they still have to prove themselves) LT.Walker=Average (I'll leave him there until we see what he can do on the left side) LG.Levitre=? (w/ lots of upside) C.Hangartner=Good RG.Woods=? (w/ lots of upside) RT.Butler=Average DEFENSE RE. Schobel=Good DT.Stroud=Good DT.Williams=Average LE.Kelsay=Average (sure Kelsey isn't great, but he ain't garbage either) OLB.Elison=Mediocre to average MLB.Posluszny=Average (with upside) OLB.Mitchell=Average CB.McGee=Good CB.McKelvin=Good already (with upside) CB.Florence/Youbouty/Corner=I think the best of this group will turn out to be good FS.Byrd/Whitner=This should at least be average SS.Whitner/Scott=Average to good Coaching Staff=Average to good (Sure they aren't Bellicheat-elite, but how many coaching staffs in the league would you consider garbage? one or two maybe...so mediocre would put Jauron et al as bottom 5 coaching staffs in the league? I think they have a lot to prove, but Jauron has to at least be middle of the pack don't you think? Especially if the whole point of your post is that they don't have enough talent to work with) Front Office=Average to good (Counting since Brandon took over: Two good drafts, Stroud and T.O. in FA/trade, etc.)

It seems to me that the idea that the AFC was weak in those days was because the NFC had won a string of Superbowls (often in a blowout) and many of those years you could argue that maybe the 2nd best team in the league (or 3 out of 4 of the top teams) were also in the NFC. But top to bottom AFC vs. NFC, there wasn't that big a difference. And as others have stated, outside of the four Superbowls, the Bills dominated the NFC (as well as the AFC) in regular season games. The way I see it: 1990...no doubt Bills were the best team in the league, but lost the SB due to partying, overconfidence, and an excellent coaching job by the Bills (Parcells and Bellicheat that is) At that point...the league, especially the NFC started moving to a strategy of building big lines and now the league also had a blueprint to beat the K-gun, if they were talented enough to do so...which most still weren't 1991...I still think the Bills were the best team in the league, but the stars did seem to align for that Washington team and their new Hogs (big O-line) were a bad match-up for our undersized D-line. Then came Dallas...and as much as I hate to admit it Dallas probably was the better team 1993...Dallas best in the league, Bills were still probably the second best team in the league 1994...the Bills window was starting to close, as players had been lost or aged (as happens with all good teams) this season they weren't one of the very top teams anymore, but they still had a lot of talent and I really think they willed themselves to that Superbowl where they were again killed by Dallas (again because of Dallas' big linemen on both sides of the ball who were able to control the line of scrimmage). But don't get me wrong, the 1990s Bills teams WERE that good...one of the best (top five) offenses in the history of the NFL, the best DE in the history of the NFL, the best all-purpose back since Jim Brown, at least 6 deservedly Hall of Fame players, they revitalized Special Teams in the NFL (at a time when ST was an after- thought to most teams)...they beat the same Giants team they lost to in the Superbowl just 3 weeks before that Superbowl and they beat Dallas in a regular season game the season after their first SB loss to them... the 1990s Bills definitely were not just beating up on weaker teams, they were damn good.

So according to those numbers, if Fred were to play out this contract, broken down into years it looks like (not counting undisclosed incentives): Year 1: $2,300,000 (including signing bonus, roster bonus, and workout bonus) Year 2: $1,925,000 (including bonuses) Year 3: $1,675,000 (including bonuses) Year 4: $1,880,000 (including bonuses) Total= $7,780,000 or an average of $1,945,000 per year, but he'll get 4 and 1/4 million dollars over the first two years (not counting incentives which could push that higher). That seems fair and should take care of Fred and his family for life if he manages his money well.

For those old enough to remember the Bills Superbowl years well, that team was not just a great football team but they had a bond with the fans and the community...they weren't just doing it for themselves but for us fans as well. There was camaraderie between the players on the team and between the players, coaches, organization, and fans. Its what made that time special and why we love the Bills so much...that blue collar all for one and one for all attitude... Donahoe had just lost a power struggle in Pittsburgh and then gained full control in Buffalo. He dismantled a team he could have built on giving us 2-3 years of total rebuilding. He struck out on his coaching choices not because Ralph was cheap but because he was going to be damned if he was going to let another coach usurp his power (so he wasn't going to bring in a big name). And as things started going bad he became more paranoid and developed a bunker mentality to the point of being beligerent in press conferences and then confiscating fan's signs and having fans ejected from the stadium. I never felt lower about the Bills than Donahoe's last year. In the atrocious mid 80s fans wore bags over their heads with derogatory comments about Ralph, but they were never tossed from a game or had to give up those bags. Levy was brought in to bring the fans back, to give us a better feeling about the team, to feel like we were apart of the team again and not that the team was against us and in that I think he was completely successful. Sure if you're just looking at football moves you could probably make a case for either of them being worse than the other (even though I would still give the edge to Marv being better...lets see what Trent, Lynch, Poz, Whitner, and Jauron do this year) and sure Jauron isn't the best coach in the league but if you can't see how much better he is than Greggo and Mularkey (no nickname needed) than you're just crazy. But if you're looking at the jobs they were brought in to do, Donahoe was a major failure on all counts while Marv (even if you think he did bad in the talent aspect) did accomplish his main job.

I agree that another good DT could help put us over the top...would love to see McCargo become that guy but that's a huge question mark. Bringing someone in (like Henderson or whoever) would be huge, but even if they don't we still have the chance to be a top 10 defense. We were 14th overall last year and with guys coming back from injury, more experience for the young guys, a better offense (hopefully), and all the new additions, its in their reach. And even if Ellison starts again this year (hopefully Harris or Thomas can step up), I would agree that our LBs as a group would be average, but our depth at LB will at least be greatly improved with DiGiorgio coming back and the new additions. And Kenwick, yes, we were #1 in Special Teams last year http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dw...de.38f0fd2.html

I still don't understand why they didn't give Hamdan a try/start during the last couple of games last year when Trent was out, our season was over, and JP was stinking things up. Maybe it was to be fair to JP and give him a chance to shine for other teams (knowing we weren't going to keep him). But it seems like getting Hamdan some game experience would have been a good thing for the team (and we fans might have a better take on him). That being said I feel pretty good about Fitzpatrick...lots of game experience and ok with his back-up role.

Great post Porksword, I was going to say something similar (and I love the avatar too)! Watching highlights of Wood and Levitre during and after the draft, one of the things that stood out to me was that they both could pull...(and I think I heard that of Hangartner too)... And dreams of screens, couter treys, and sweeps danced in my head...I mean when is the last time we've been able to run those types of plays successfully? If we have so much trouble with the great NTs in our division for God's sake let's run some plays away from them, to neutralize them a bit. Intelligent, nasty linemen, who can pull and LOVE to play the game...there's hope yet for our Bills! Not to mention Kelly's around to give TE some pointers...while Turk can rely on Wyche if they do go with a no-huddle. Nice article Tim...actually laughed out loud at "droptastic Robert Royal"

Russ may or may not turn out to be a good GM (or whatever his title is) but he has more experience than you give him credit for (even if it was in baseball first). "Brandon joined the Bills in November of 1997 as Executive Director of Business Development and Marketing after earning a World Series ring as a member of the Florida Marlins front office. He began his sports business career as a member of the Rochester Red Wings (Triple A affiliate of the Baltimore Orioles) serving in many capacities, including assistant general manager." He also played four years of college football, even if it was for lowly St. John Fisher... You could say he stinks because his experience was in baseball or marketing...but he was more than just a glorified intern from a community college.