Dibs

He isn't small.

My putting up this list in this thread was to directly show that Whitner is not undersized....which I believe I have adequately done. (I've taken the liberty of adding Roy Williams into your list above) But since you raise the issue of position.....to argue that all you need is a good scouting department & you'll be able to get your pro bowl SS in later rounds is ridiculous.(Though you get no argument from me that we have had bad scounting for years now) The same argument could easily be made for DTs(I thought since people wanted Bunkley/Ngata, this might make a nice comparison) Last years pro bowlers... Glover -- 5th rounder Rogers -- 2nd rounder Harris -- mid first rounder Williams -- 2nd rounder Seymour -- high first rounder Hampton -- mid first rounder Stroud -- mid first rounder Coleman -- 5th rounder When you add the concept that the Safety position has changed over the last bunch of year requiring better athletes who contribute bigger impacts, the argument that Whitner was a bad pick at #8 because he was a safety does not hold water.

This is simply wrong in the modern NFL. Here is something I prepared(& posted) earlier. Whitner.............5'10.5" Below are the NFLs top strong safeties & their heights Bold is last years pro-bowlers. Asterix is previous recent pro-bowlers. Bob Sanders.....5'8" Troy Polamalu...5'10" Mike Brown.......5'10" *Ed Reed*........5'11" Chris Hope........5"11" Tony Parrish......5'11" *L.Milloy*...........6'0" *Roy Williams*...6'0" B.Dawkins........6'0" Archuleta..........6'0" *R.Harrison*.....6'1" D.Darius...........6'1" *C.Chavous*....6'1" Sean Taylor......6'2" M.Boulware.......6'3" A.Wilson...........6'3" He is not undersized for the modern NFL game.

Hey, I resemble that remark.

He's joking. This thread is surely in response to the other idiotic thread about Whitner.

Am I just grumpy today or is this thread intrinsically annoying?

& JP was benched for two of our easiest...so what? Who does care about Eli? The point wasn't a direct comparison to his talents as a QB but to his situation as a QB. The Giants didn't bench him when he was showing he was obviously not good enough to be a starter. The 'Boys didn't bench Aikman. The Broncos didn't bench Elway. How many respected GM/Coaches do bench their 1st round QB in their first year as starter? I don't understand why I'm arguing this....if you cannot see that TD & MM made a huge mistake last year in their management of JP(after all the arguments I & others have spelt out) then there is nothing that can be done to show the obvious more clearly.

It is either "panicked" or "total stupidity" from the outset. JP was given the starting job upon the release of DB. To not expect a lot of growing pains from a young QB who had only attempted 5 NFL passes previously was ridiculous. What were TD & MM doing at the start of last season? Hoping like hell with fingers crossed that despite what he showed in camp/pre-season, JP would come out and perform like a Rothlesberger? They benched him in the 4th game!!!...1 & 3.....rookie Starting QB... To put all of that starters preasure on him, expect him to perform at an unrealistic level & then bench him in the 4th game was MORONIC. Did you see how bad Eli Manning was in his first 4 starts? 101-39-450-1TD-6INT QBR 31.4 Compared to JP.... 94-45-433-1TD-2INT QBR 55.9

RE: Article #2 Thanks a bunch. Up until now I have enjoyed hating Snyder. Well done on alerting me to the fact that he is a human being and not some faceless money monster. Nice story though.

I was going to dissect & argue & have a wonderful waste of time with the naysayer(s) but you seemed to have summed it up beautifully. I do like the way you remained polite & said please at the end.

Having English parents, I was never indoctrinated into the local game(Aussie Rules). Too much like aerial ping pong(in those days) for my liking. A good friend of mine(Greek background) was/is a big football fan(49ers). He invited a bunch of his mates to watch the Superbowl one year. "Why not?" I thought. The game was between the Bills & NYG. We all picked a side to barrack(support) for the game. I picked the Bills(obviously). Why? 2 main reasons....1. because of TT. My friend had told me that the Bills had this awesome RB who was fun to watch.....2. because of the helmet logo....the Giants logo was way too boring. The rules of the game were explained to us as the game progressed. I was captivated by the tactics & precision of the game. By the end of it, I was hooked....not just on the game but on the Bills as well. What clinched it for me was the attitude of the Bills organization(importance on character) & the Bills community of fans (seeing on the news over here the reception the Bullalonians(is that correct) gave their losing team, esp. Scott Norwood.) It goes to show that success, character, loyal passionate fans & a good logo are all important for building an international following.

The report says they are $1.1mil apart but then lists it at guaranteed money. This implies that they are in agreeance over the total amount of money and the length of the contract. For the sake of $600K extra up front......I think this report is bogus(or only a small part of the true factors) It has to still be either over the number of years, the total amount, or problems with the agent. That small amount of money up front is just not worth the hassle for either side.

Your statement holds true for any position, not just safety. Should read... i still cant believe they are going to be paying that much for a rookie ...that to me is just a waste unless you are getting a game changer

True indeed. It's good to have the individual talent.....getting all the individual talent to play together as a cohesive team is probably of higher importance though.

I think until our young guys step up(if ever) the Bengals are definately ahead of us. Star QB(assume he comes back to full health) Star WR & solid #2WR Very Good RB Very Good O-Line Decent D-line OK LBs(1 top guy) Top CBs & weak S IMO the Bengals are not too far from the top(with a healthy Palmer)

Disagree on the Ravens, Cardinals & Bengals You can add in Chargers, Dolphins, Cowboys, Falcons & Raiders.

Thanks for the report, you make me jealous. It's nice to see WM showing good work ethic & leadership to the rookies. Maybe he's not as bad as some think.

Speaking of miracles.....can't he just touch himself & be healed? um...I don't me touch himself That might be how he hurt his wrist in the first place.

What you are missing is the "we're dooooomed" attitude.

Good job. Thanks for that.

I guess it's all in the timing.

It was Wilmer Fowler Stats link

Accountability in the media.....that's an oxymoron isn't it?

I count that as 6 improvements and only 4...(what's the opposite of improvement? )....4 that are potentially worse. This could easily be a top 10 Defence.