Bill from NYC
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Posts posted by Bill from NYC
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That is not the point. The point is only and obviously that you continually said we should just cut the talentless worthless piece of garbage pedophile, but the fact is that we can get something for him and we're going to, or we are going to keep him as a back-up (the far, far less likely scenario).
But we are not going to cut him, nor is he talentless, worthless, a piece of garbage, or a pedophile. I was only berating you for berating other posters' twisted, unfounded and outlandish positions and proposals when your own were significantly more twisted, unfounded and outlandish.
Not entirely true Bro. I wanted to trade him before the season, along with VA and others. SDS even chimed in, and never seemed impressed with Travis.
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You are certainly free to believe each and every one of your homer beliefs, but that does not make them reality.
TH will NOT be a Bill next season under any conditions. This is, and has always been my stance.
You can continue to kiss his ass and attack those who do not love him, although this thread appears to be a bit more of a TD sodomizing.
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I never ever said it was. TD has been remarkably consistent in this. He wants what Travis is worth. He thinks Travis is worth at least a second OR at least Shelton plus a swap of seconds. NO one here has been saying the ridiculous exaggerations you keep throwing around that he is worth Jonathan Ogden or anything close to it. Some people thought, IMO wrongly, that we would get a #1 pick for him a long time ago. Please, please, please tell me one possible thing that TD has said or done in his history, especially recently and concerning travis, that would make you believe he is going to trade him to just move up 11 spots in a draft where virtually everyone says there are a ton of very good players in the second and third round?
K Man, as I said yesterday in another thread, it matters ZERO what TD says. It is like listening to Chris Moneymaker or Johnny Chan. TD is a poker player, and a good one at that.
I DO think it IS possible to get a swap of 2nds and a player to be dumped later(Shelton). What I DONT think is that TH will fetch a 2nd round pick in a trade.
Btw, Gallery, Jayson Taylor and Miami's first round picks WERE trade proposals I read on this board.
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Happy Birthday!
Cindy, I am glad the 2 of you are feeling better!
God Bless. -
He's not. He wants a second. The writer of the story is speculating that he wants a third or fourth, which is likely what the Eagles are offering to start the negotiations.
I frankly, cannot believe that anyone with over a sixth grade reading comprehension level can read an article which states the trade may still be on, the Bills are asking for Shelton plus a swap of seconds, the Cards are balking at that at least for now, and then Green saying he may do the swap. That says to me, and I would predict 99% of everyone on here, that Green is talking about both Shelton and the swap.
So what? Shelton is a LT in whom there appears to be little or no interest. How rare is this?
Jennings was a pretty good, not great LT. He was scooped up and made a multi-millionaire in minutes, right? Why? Because he plays LT! Now, where is the interest in LJ?
If TD cares more about moving up in the 2nd than unloading TH for a 4th or so, he will pull the trigger, but can we not make it sound like we are getting overwhelmed with offers such as a high round draft pick, or Jonathan Ogden?
It just aint happening my friend.
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VA Bills has stated from day 1 that the trade would be consumed for a 5th round pick or a 4th at best.
Shelton deal notwithstanding, I agree with him. I hope I am wrong and I am sure VA feels the same way.
Personally, I think that VA should be praised rather than attacked for taking a stand other than "TD is God," or "Lets swap Travis even up for Jason Taylor or Robert Gallery." Yes, those dream world trades were proposed here. VA had an opinion and was ready to take it against the blind homer grain.
I would rather read what he has to say than another "Travis for the 2nd pick in the draft" proposals which are TRULY ridiculous.
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>>>the bills can put up with henry's ball aching if they have to<<<
Was this a mixture of ball breaking and belly aching?
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I definitely think he meant it. And I definitely think that Travis' style, lifestyle and fumbling was a factor, too. Just not the major factor. And I think, without any inside knowledge or anything, that he very likely considered taking Steinbach but decided he really wasn't worth that much money. He probably turned out to be wrong, because Steinbach has played well. But that is hindsight. A lot of teams, 32 in fact, didn't think Steinbach should have been drafted in the first round. As I recall he was projected to go anywhere from the late first to the early second, which is where he went.
I also think if any of the DL's that were taken before the Bills got their pick, that we wouldn't be having this conversation because TD would have taken one of them (if, of course, that player was rated higher on his board than McGahee). But it just so happened that there was a run on DL's before the Bills chose, and they didnt want to pay Chris kelsay first round money either.
And you may very well be right.
I for one tend to not take the words of coaches and GMs as gospel truth, nor do I feel entitled as a fan to be told the whole story. For instance.....TD was certainly not going to state any misgivings he might have had about Henry, right?
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>>>>>Plus, people still almost refuse to acknowledge what TD has stated publicly. He chose McGahee because no one on his board was worth the money they were going to have to pay a first round pick. He thought Mcgahee was worth that risk, and he turned out to be correct. <<<<<
Yeah, he said that. Are you sure he meant it?
Remember, Travis was all upset and TD needed him to start that season because WM was unable to. He had to be placated.
Besides, Steinbech went just a few picks later and we needed a guard. He would have been a reasonable signing in terms of ability and cost.
I think that TD chose Willis because he has ba!!s, and remember, in those days Travis was still coughing it up consistently.
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DeeRay,
Actually your statement of "you pipe dram guys" is rude. I make a valid football point and you respond back talking as a throwback from the eighties "dude".
Henry has value because of the low contract which has value to a cap strung team such as Tampa, plus Henry wants to play in Florida, will sign a long-term deal in Tampa and with this in mind, allows Tampa to make a move on other need areas.
To counter your point about him being wrth only a mid 3rd rounder, you are very wrong. He has had two years in which he ran for over 1300 yards on a team with almost no offensive weapons and a sitting duck QB playing behind a horrid undeveloped offensive line.
Travis Henry is in the 2nd tier of quality running backs and is a valued commodity in the NFL.
So "dude" try responding with a knowledgeable footback take.
An early second and an early third for Travis henry IS nothing but a pipe dream. The Rams got Faulk for a 2nd and a 5th. Faulk is better than Travis Henry in each and every phase of football, and this at the age of 70.
TD is trying to move up in round 2 and get Shelton, an OT he is seemingly not very impressed with. If Henry had real value, TD would not have to bottom feed in this manner.
One other point. No football fan will ever argue against the importance of a quality LT. Sheton has a cheap price tag, and no bonus to contend with. If TD thought he was THAT good, he would have already made the trade, and many other teams would be lining up for a good, cheap Left Tackle.
Well, it isn't happening, nor are teams tripping all over themselves to take Henry off of our hands.
The Henry situation is huge to us because we are Bills fans and our 1st round pick is gone but as the NFL goes, it is small potatoes.
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Still, if Nate is so iffy and the CB draft class so solid that we can afford to dump him and replace him with a pick, why doesn't Washington know that? I just don't accept the logic that says he is good enough for Washington to jump off a bridge for but not good enough for us to bother keeping. Why wouldn't a "proven star" at a critical position be just as important to us as it would be to them?
Frankly, I am not Nate's biggest fan. Fumbling that punt against the Steelers and blowing that pass break up against the Jags kind of soured me on him.
I think quite highly of Nate as a player, but I dont like him enough to risk a franchise tag for 9 or 10 million dollars, nor to give him a 15 million dollar signing bonus to go along with a huge salary.
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19 reps does seem like a small number for a guy that size.
Remember Jamie Nails? He did about 19,000 reps and he STILL sucked. Did we draft any good blockers besides Ruben and Jennings in the last 10 years?
Sorry, I just cant sing the praise of Mike Williams. Not for 9.15 million dollars. Not yet.
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Just a thought -- If we do franchise Nate at the end of the year? what makes people think we can't afford around a $10 salary for only one year. I know it sounds like a lot, but with a MW restructuring, DB hit gone, and really solid use of the cap, we could be able to afford him for a season making a trade not neccesary, once again giving TD the upperhand in negotiations. Clump may be better to tell us all if it is possible to clear out that much cap room for next year or not.
There is not a cornerback who ever played the game that deserves 1/8 of the salary cap of an NFL Football Team.
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That's a ridiculous comment. The Antoine contract and cap number was to take advantage of the Vikings cap situation, meaning they could pay him a lot early because they had room, and they would not suffer down the line. Teams would love to do this if they had the room, and his cap number had ZERO to do with his worth as player.
But these salaries do as you know effect the cost of the "Franchise" Tag.
I am saying that there is a very substantial risk of losing NC after this season, and this adds to it.
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Close to it. Fans throw around those numbers, especially Top 5 way too easily. Top five is basically starting on the first team All-Pro. He was my favorite Bill. But his lack of INTs certainly would keep him from the top five in the entire league. I have been as hard on Clements as anyone here but if Clements ups his game this year the same amount he upped it each of the last three years, he will be a top 10 (equaling pro bowl) and maybe top 5 for sure.
Furthermore, very few if any of even the most diehard Antoine fans, myself included, thought he should have been signed for what he signed for. And with the way the defense played last year, I think it was proven to be true.
Sorry, but this post is confusing.
Do you put it forth as evidence that TD does or does not re-sign star players?
Also, when speaking of TD, do you count his record of re-signing top players at Pittsburgh?
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You do your arguments against Henry a disservice by making unsupportable claims of his failings.
What about the actual events leads you to say that Henry was a MAJOR (your capitalization not mine) contributor to 4 straight losses.
Game 1- 13-10 loss to Jacksonville- Henry did not play a great game by any means as he got a mere 3.3 yards per carry. However, his 75 yards seem pretty far from a major contribution to the loss. The Jax D was a good one and tough against the run and while Bill's Daily is not the Bible in terms of the spoken word they gave a grade of B to a running game which Henry was the bulk performer. I think folks point to an overall failure of the O as a lead factor in the lost and Henry was a certainly a part of the O, but given the poor Bledsoe performance even allocating his share takes him pretty far away from major. In fact anyone casting blame probably points to the D and Clements going for the INT when knovking it down would have put up the W as the play that stands out along with a couple of other bad plays by the D on that drive.
In addition, lest you want to somehow try to build a case for a switch to WM being the key factor, Henry actually suffered an injury that saw WM get cnsistent action for the 4th quarter and he also was able to log a massive 3.4 ypc on his 9 carries.
Game 2- 13-10 loss to Oakland- A worse performance by Henry in this game, but still falls short of your diatribe as a major factor. Again he registered 3.2 yards a pop and his total of 67 yards was not good and one might even throw in hi couple of drops and his rumbling bumbling stumbling failing to get into the endzone to earn him the title of being bad that day. However, to site his play as the MAJOR factor and let Bledsoe, other players and even the refs who missed so many pivotal calls even the NFL was forced into a meaningless apology really les a bunch of miscreants off the hook merely to try to prove your point rather than describe reality.
Again, if you wan t to try to hold your all we needed was to switch RBs point, WM certainly did not get enough carries this game to establish a rhytym, but losing 10 yards on his firstcarry probably had something to do with that. Also of interest there was a missed blitz pick-up this game but it was by Shelton rather than the usual whipping boy Henry.
I think it is fair to ding Henry as a contributor to this loss, but MAJOR is not the case.
Game 3- 31-17 loss to NE- I think bills' Daily is being quite charitable to Henry summarizing this outing as solid and pointing to his 98 yards gained on 24 carries to support this claim. They do make mention of him falling down on a 3rd and 1 and do not attribute his likely role in the NE TD fumble where he and Bledsoe went different ways. However, even if you want to blame both of these plays totally on Henry (you really have to be in love with Bledsoe to do this) the Henry performance is at worst a mixed bag some good some bad performance rather than the major cause of this loss.
Game 4- 16-14 loss to NYJ- This is perhaps the most inexplicable of the claims that Henry was a majpr factor in this loss as he suffered and injury and only got 12 carries. Maybe he was the MAJOR contributor here because he should have got injured sooner. I would label him as being more of a non-factor when we want more from our RB, but if he was a major factor in this loss then was WM who got 42 yards on his 8 carries (21 of which came on one play actually) also a major factor as he and TH really split responsibility in this game due to the TH injury.
At any rate in total, i think it is fair to say that Henry was a key factor (though not the major one as Bledsoe lays first claim to this apellation for almost all losses) in the Oakland loss, a mixed factor in the NE game, a non-facor in the NYJ game and a tough contributor in the Jax game at worse.
You are giving him a free pass on missed blocks, sacks galore and wrong passing routes but hey, dont let me stand in your way!
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Well, my mind is even more open than merely Mike Williams.
Possibilities are virtually unlimited. We could get a 1st in 06 AND a first day pick in 05. Some of our players (SA, LF, CV) are not young.
A trade such as this could be a chance to replenish this football team with young talent. This type of chance does not seem to come often.
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Eric Moulds is the only major re-sign of TD's regime. I feel the only reason he did do that was because if he didn't, there would be a lynch mob after him.
At that point in time, Moulds was one of the top 5 WR's in the league. Everyone knew who Eric Moulds was in the Buffalo area, even if you weren't a football fan. He was (and still is) a Bill the likes of Jim Kelly, Thurman Thomas, Bruce Smith, and Andre Reed.
Yes, TD spends big money and the post you replied to commented on that. But for one reason or another, he doesn't like to re-sign people. He would rather replace them with substitutes, especially if money is an issue.
He was the same in Pittsburgh. TD is accustomed to working for not so wealthy owners, which is to our advantage.
One thing he also does is surprise us. This is another reason why I think that a deal will go down, as unlikely as it may seem right now.
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In the long run, it's what should be done.
Nate Clements is one of the best players on our team. But face facts, this is his last year as a Buffalo Bill. TD may be a "genius", but he doesn't re-sign ANYONE. Especially when you try and think of the type of money Nate's going to get next year. He let Peerless walk, he let Antoine Winfield walk, he let Jonas Jennings walk, he let Pat Williams walk and if you think he's going to shell out the "Top 10 CB" money; you're dillusional.
So now we have to look at it like this, trade Nate for a top ten pick or keep Nate for one year and then get nothing. I feel as if a top ten pick who will be with us for many years to come is much more important than one year of Nate Clements play.
TD said it himself, our defense is incredible; but our offense isn't good enough. Yes we have Willis McGahee. Yes we have Eric Moulds and Lee Evans. But that's where it ends on offense. J.P. needs another weapon. On top of that, Eric Moulds doesn't have much time left. I'm not talking contract wise, i'm talking playing wise. This will be E-Moulds' 10th season and it's starting to show (not to mention we're one slow-starting rookie QB away from him "rethinking" things again).
TD is sitting on a whole bunch of money, which is very unlike him (funny how he never resigns anyone, but throws all sorts of money around for FA's). He hasn't made many moves because he's waiting for the draft. But why would you do that with only a #55? I honestly think he has something up his sleeve. Maybe not a trade involving Nate, but he's cooking something.
If I were TD, i'd pull the trigger on a trade involving Nate. But only for one person...... USC WR/TE Mike Williams. Here's a guy that we were very interested in last year before "The Maurice Rule" was appealed and defunct. His size has a lot of teams looking at him to play an Antonio Gates type role as TE, along with WR. This is the perfect type of addition to our offense! And with Moulds, Evan, and Williams; along with McGahee in the backfield, J.P. is loaded with help.
Now the rumor is: Nate to Washington for #9. But here's a couple scenarios I see as possibilities:
Nate and Travis to Arizona for #8 and L.J. Shelton - Arizona needs two things: a RB and a CB. We've been prolifically working on a deal involving Shelton and Henry. But we just can't seem to agree on compensation. Arizona is going to draft one or the other, why not take care of both with the #8 and ship out L.J.? It makes perfect sense for both teams. The only thing is, we'd need to move up to at least #6 (in front of Minnesota) to get MW. But from #8, it shouldn't take more than a 3rd rounder to get to 6 (the same type of deal would apply if we sent Nate to Washington for a #9). Especially since they'll (Tennesee) most likely take a CB as it is. It's essentially the same deal as below, but with a #3 and L.J. Shelton (which is a fair deal to me).
Nate and Travis to Tennessee for #6 - Almost the same things apply here. Tennessee needs all the help they can get. CB and RB being two huge needs and one of the two will be addressed by Tennessee with this pick. Why not take care of both? As for L.J. Shelton, this move forces Arizona to pick a RB. We'll just throw a #3 their way for L.J., i'm sure they'll bite.
I know people are going to be saying "Nate Clements and Travis Henry for Mike Williams; a rookie?!" Well it's not as bad as it sounds when you look at it from this perspective; Travis Henry will NOT play for us. Even if he does, he won't see the light of day on the field and next year he's gone. Nate Clements will be amazing as always for Buffalo in 2005. But that's all we get as far as Nate goes. Nate in 05 because in 06.... he's gone.
Mike Williams would give us that boost on offense we need and none of the trades I propose are unrealistic. Other teams would jump at a package like that. So what about CB with Nate gone you ask? Well, we draft a CB in the second, third, or forth round and take some of our $6.5 in cap money and sign a veteran like Ty Law or Andre Dyson. There was too much talk by EVERYONE to discount Law not being here for a visit. I do believe he at least stopped by to check out the place. But I think it was kept on the downlow for a reason. Using a pick in the top four rounds should get you a good CB to groom (ala Terrence McGee). Then if you add another veteran like Law, we're in a good position. So what about other positions of need?
DT - I feel that TD addressed it last year with the drafting of Tim Anderson. Do you honestly feel that TD's going to spend a 3rd rounder on a DT from Ohio State and not use him? Combined with Ron Edwards 4 sack season and you have a couple guys who could step up. I'd be surprised if we got another DT going into the season. I think TD feels set and if ever a position to sacrifice a little defense for the offense, DT would be it.
OL - Dear god, I really don't understand why everyone wants to draft an OL. Maybe if we didn't have a shot at Shelton, but it's pretty much a given. Let's say we get Shelton then our OL looks like this:
L.J. Shelton (LT)
Bennie Anderson (LG)
Trey Teague ©
Chris Villarial (RG)
Mike Williams (RT)
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Mike Gandy
Justin Bannan
Ross Tucker
Lawrence Smith
Ben Sobieski
Dylan McFarland
Jason Peters
HOW MANY LINEMAN DO WE NEED?!
TE - With Campbell and Euhus coming back, we're back to square one and that's not all bad. But MW is being scouted as a TE as well. I think he would flourish playing TE and slot reciever.
K - Oh man, the Nugent factor. I can't believe how many Bills fans this guy has. As long as we still have a 2nd after whatever trade up we make, if he's still there than definitely go for it. But I feel we're stuck with Lindell. There is no one out there on the market and we need help in other places more important than kicker. I cna't envision TD spending our top pick on a kicker.
The bottom line is we're in a good position and these things are entirely possible. Do I think it will happen? Probably not. But i'd love to give it a try if I were TD. Mike Williams is one of the only good players in this draft and there are tons of teams that want him. I think if trading Nate would get us a shot at him, it should be done.
Thank you for a well thought post.
It is hard to say exactly what we would get in exchange for NC. My feeling is that if there is little likelihood of keeping him after 05, a trade is in order. I am thinking that if JP can play (not a given), losing NC will not necessarily impede the Bills from being a playoff team.
Additionally, the Bills have a history of signing cbs in round 1 and losing them with no compensation. Imo, TD will break that trend. I expect NC to be traded to the Redskins on draft day.
We shall see.
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Good point! A win could serve to build his confidence.
I also hope that the only NY team is inspired that much more to begin our season on 9/11.
GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Never Forget!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Eagles interest in Travis the top story
in The Stadium Wall Archives
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They might even throw in McNabb.