bluv

Great comeback. I mean if this was 2008, BEFORE the season, Peters hadn't held out but hadn't ever made the Pro Bowl, %99 of Bills fans on this board would be crying how much the Bills get overlooked and blah, blah, blah!

How much do you want to be handcuffed by a player IN THE FUTURE? It's not like he would break the bank as he was underpaid as we all know. After acquiring T.O, the Bills talked about acquiring talent. You don't let a talent like Peters go easy. If Walker is shifted to LT and holds out, do you cave in? NO as he doesn't have the TALENT to be an ELITE LT. Peters does, has PROVEN it and has YEARS left. Like Andy Rheid said: the Bills left him on an island a lot and he more than held his own. In an OFF year in which he held out, he occassionally got beat but not half as much as the haters want you to believe. If you combine the blocking scheme with OBVIOUS playcalling Peters is an elite tackle, especially if you watch the tapes. If you look at STATS you'd think that Walker is superior but if you watch the game you'll notice that he gets way more help and chips from RBs/TEs than Peters.

That was just a fear tactic used by Peters and his agent; even they know that they can't get top dollar if Peters at some point doesn't play and play well.

While I don't agree with your tone, I do agree with your basic logic. The Bills actually CAVED in and gave Peters exactly what he wanted. They had him under contract for 2 years; they had him by the throat. Why let an elite tackle go so cheap? He had an off year and made the Pro Bowl based on his peers! If he held out, had another "subpar" year then his value would have diminished. He would have came out motivated for nothing else but to improve his stock in both trade value or his contract year. At least we would have gotten production from him and if he played elite in his contract year, FRANCHISE his you know what! Instead the Bills whimped out and got less than stellar value. For all those who are so glad he is gone I ask you this: if the Bills had 2 1st round picks, gave up the SECOND 1st round pick, a 4th and a 6th round pick for a 2 time YOUNG Pro Bowl LEFT TACKLE would you not feel that this was a good pickup? This board would be full of excitement! Everyone would be calling the Eagles cheap and the only bad season he had was due to a holdout but STILL made the Pro Bowl based on coaches/players votes and would point out that he had an even better NON Pro Bowl season his first at RT.

We haven't had a balanced offensive identity in the last 15 years! The playcalling is SO OBVIOUS; we have coaches who just call plays instead of game plan. You can look at the personell and tell the play from jump. I mean they don't utilize the playaction as much as they should nor pass much when Trent is under center in a 2 back look. That way the defenses can stack the box. They barely ran from spread formatations. They barely ran any shotgun draws UNTIL Lynch busted a big run from the shotgun against the Borwns on MNF; they gave it a shot the next few games. You'd think with the numerous times they had Trent pass from the shotgun they'd at least tryo to incorporate a few draws or screens. God knows I HATED to see Trent in SHOTGUN on 3rd and short ON OUR OWN 20 that led to numerous backbreaking sacks, fumbles, and INT's! I'd like to see them find a personell grouping that they could run a base offense, with good pass and run ratio at least 65% of time to keep the D off balance and guessing. They could use special groupings for special downs (short yardage, 3rd and long, 2 minute, etc.)

I agree that if a replacement is found and LT is not in ANY way an eye sore, ESPECIALLY on the current roster then it will become a mute point. Couldn't agree more. The Bills actually gave him what he wants. More players will follow such moves. We had him locked for 2 years and he had to play and well for if he didn't he wouldn't get his money. And some will say that he plyed awful last year and that Pro Bowl selection is a joke. For the most part it is - that is when the FANS vote you in. How many Bills fans you think voted for Peters? How many opposing fans do you think did the same. When you get voted in by your peers and coaches WHO WATCH THE FILM and PLAY THE GAME, it has a little more meaning, especially at a NON-GLAMOUR position. Don't get caught up in stats, especially stats given up for you don't know who was truly responsible. It's not like a defender getting sacks where you can get official credit.

I'm with you. The pass protection was great at times - there were times the QB had all day to scan the field but couldn't seem to find anyone open. Neither QB has good instincts in the pocket, especially JP! How many coverage sacks did the QB's give up for god sacks? Some need to get off the stats and look at the tape and you will notice such things. While Peters led the league in sacks given up, how many were recorded when his man actually beat him? And even if he got occasionally beat, usually his man was a non-factor. Now the running game lacked push, especially when Butler went out the lineup for a few games. I feel that a center upgrade combined with one less defender in the box due to the arrival of T.O. would greatly improve the running game. A bigger problem with our running game was the scheme in that we had one of the largest O-ine in the league but we didn't play to its strength it that we insisted on being a zone blocking team. SMASH MOUTH would have been the way to go. That combined with OBVIOUS playcalling based on personell grouping commands a DOMINANT DO WHAT YOU WANT type O-line; the Hogs like the Skins had back in the day. So if the question is if I think the O-line last year was dominant nasty group that mauled people and did what they wanted to do then no. But they were far from pathetic as the O-line the past 3 years has been way better than the 5 years that proceeded it! And remember in this age of NFL parity, assembling a DOMINANT squad is rare as there really isn't that much of a gap between the elite and average talent, coaching, scheming and getting the most out of your talent means way more in today's NFL!

I'm with you; let Bell and Chambers fight it out at LT. Even though I hate an early pick, you can throw him in the mix as well; just leave Walker where he is!

The BEST scenario for the Bills is to leave Walker where he is at and HOPE that either Chambers or Bell can step in and at the very LEAST be adequate starters. They do not have to be PRO BOWL LEFT TACKLES but serviceable and not anything like the scrubs we had BEFORE Peters! That way we can still address and hopefully UPGRADE other weakness on the team at DE, OLB, and TE. If we draft an OL at 11 he better be a PRO BOWL caliber LT for if not we gain nothing and will pretty much remain the same team as we are now. If they can step in and we get QUALITY players at the POSITIONS IN NEED with these additional picks then we will improve. If they don't hit on many of these picks, we just gave up one of the best YOUNG LTs in the game DIRT CHEAP with 2 years left on his contract!

I think our running game has suffered more from predictability and the 8th man in the box more than from the blocking; especially in the second half of season once Butler returned to the lineup. I mean i wish we had a dominant smash mouth road grinding O-line who could bully its way around no matter what but that is becoming a rarity in today's NFL. The fact that we barely passed with the QB under center, rarely used playaction, or ran the ball from spread or shotgun formations it made us easy to defend. Think about it: if the QB is under center, all the D had to do was stack the box. Even if we did pass all they had to do was double Lee wait for either Trent to dump it off to the TE or RB in the flat or JP to hold it forever looking downfield. I agree with this statement as the tape has shown several occasions where either Lee or Hardy have been open and Trent has become gun-shy and just take the easy way out. We have seen plenty of time where JP would hold the ball and sometimes pull a RJ and run out of bounds for short sack; there were plenty of times I'd wish he just take off and run! While it may be some truth in the fact that the WR's can't get open, this year there shouldn't be ANY excuses! You can't tell me that the D can double Lee, TO, and the slot WR's. Hopefully they stick with the singleback theme and either utilize a hybrid TE/H-back or go with a base 3WR look. If they try to go with the standard 2 RB, 2WR look they will limit themselves as they don't have a diiference maker at FB to add to the running game or a standout TE to make teams pay for doubling the outside guys. However if they ran the ball more from a singleback look they maybe can establish what has been lacking in Buffalo since the K-gun days: AN OFFENSIVE IDENTITY! With a BALANCED offense, one in which find a personell group in which you can have success both running and passing, requiring substituion only in critical situations (3rd and long,goaline, etc,) it leads to less predictability. We could be an offense that gameplans instead of just call plays and hope they work!

They obviously didn't watch many Bills games as pass protection the past 2 years have not been a major issue. Now run blocking has been so-so I'll admit. But it has been plenty of Sundays I have saw Trent holding the ball forever and then dumping it off in the flat; I've saw JP hold the ball and take RJ type sacks! Trent must get better at finding his secondary targets and get confidence in letting it rip! Also Schonert obvious gameplanning doesn't help either. I will agree that we do need an upgrade on an edge rusher but the middle of our D has been sufficent; not Big Ted/ Fat Pat tight but OK with the addition of Stroud.

I'd be happy with either one but based on tape I saw and production, Brown ssems to have that twich that you just can't teach; you have to be born with it. I may be wrong but I think Orakpo will be frustrated in the next level as he won't be able to overpower every opponent plus while he definitely isn't slow, he is not impresive with his explosiveness. That is what I'm saying you heard!

(BTW, I meant prima dona as someone pointed out!) He does seem kind of cocky in some interviews I saw; touting his own horn but I don't even pretend to know the guy so we'll see. As long as he produces I could care less!

In that scenario it comes down to Bryan Orakpo or Everette Brown. The census pick is Orakpo but I'd prefer Brown as he has produced on the field and seems to have an explosion and skill set that you just can't teach. Orakpo seems to be a pre-madonna type player who overvalues himself. If both are available and they pick Brown over Orakpo then they better be right! NO ONE however can blame them for choosing any one of these two, REGARDLESS of how Crabtree or others might pan out in the future. If the later it is true it could lead to an ESPN Top Five reasons you can't blame the Bills for picking a DE over Crabtree in the 2009 NFL Draft!

Walker at LT is a bad idea for a long-term solution. While he did OK the first two games of the season, he did not face a true speed rusher plus he had help. While he is adequate at RT and I like him their, he does struggle with elite speed and he often has help in that a TE or back often chips a DE before releasing into their routes. While some may bash Peters, he is often asked to play on an island and often does so with little problem. Yeah he gave up a couple of sacks last year but for the most part his man didn't constantly harass the QB. If the Bills can come to ter

Walker at LT is a bad idea for a long-term solution. While he did OK the first two games of the season, he did not face a true speed rusher plus he had help. While he is adequate at RT and I like him their, he does struggle with elite speed and he often has help in that a TE or back often chips a DE before releasing into their routes. While some may bash Peters, he is often asked to play on an island and often does so with little problem. Yeah he gave up a couple of sacks last year but for the most part his man didn't constantly harass the QB. If the Bills can come to terms with Peters then our O-line will be fine at the tackle position. Ever since Peters has stepped into the leneup for the most part our pass protection has been good to great as most sacks are a result of coverage sacks. Some don't remeber the days when we truly had pass protection issues when a QB is consistently pop in under 3 seconds. If a capable LG is found either via draft, trade, or the existing roster plus Hangartner proves to be up to the task of handling NT lineup directly over him and can provide the push up the middle then we may well have the makings of a explosive offense IF both Trent and Schonert step their game up!

I agree. Why take a WR; NO ONE IS A SURE PICK! Crabtree played in a pass happy offense at that. The addition of TO allows both our young WR's AND Trent to develop. Until Trent develops into a consistent QB it doesn't matter who you lineup up on the outside. Why create an even bigger logjam at WR unless you felt Crabeetree was the next Randy Moss? I honestly think that Everrete Brown will be the best pick for the Bills as he has explosion that you just can't teach. If Orakpo fell, it would be a decision between the two. Some would say take Orakpo because he fits more of a traditonal LDE build and we have Schoebel. Based on tape I have seen Brown rack havoc from both sides. He is the type of explosive DE that the Bills lack which is our number one need right now. If both Schonert and Trent improve, establish an offensive identity, properly utilizes his targets on the outside, the run game will pick up and the offense should improve. The D could possibly become dominanat if the return of a healthy Schoebel combined with an explosive opposite force collapse the pocket as the secondary is tight.

Different Ken; I made the same initial assumption until I looked at the age and read the article!

Another overlooked fact (besides coverage sacks!) is how much help does a LT need. Yeah Walker only gave up 2,3 sacks maybe but he always has a RB or TE chip a LDE before they release into their patterns. A lot of sacks are just about good timing and luck. You know the same guys who dogg Schoebel for getting gimmick sacks but not generating consistent pressure (which BTW isn't totally true regarding Schoebel but that is for another discussion!) It is like a DB on one side shutting down a top WR one on one for the whole game but allowing one or two big gainer as he mistimes a break on the ball. The other DB will have safety help and not give up any catches but never gives the coaching staff confidence in matching up one-on-one. Some will say that the WR won the battle against a top DB and that maybe the other DB playing with help is a solid player but they may not recognize the scheme and the help that DB gets. Take Jerry Porter for instance, if you look at the stats he killed the Bills. But if you watch the games, besides the plays where he actually sacked the QB he was nuetralized by Peters and pretty much a non-factor as he couldn't generate consistent pressure. I think back to the days where Bruce would constantly get close to smashing Dan Marino but he'd feel the pressure and get rid of the ball with his quick release. Since Bruce got zero sacks, LT Richmond Webb would get all the credit for shutting Bruce down. Now on the other hand, Tony Bosseli totally neutralized Bruce a couple of games where he didn't even come close to Brunnell. See the philosophy, stats don't tell the whole story!

This would be a perfect draft that would probably land 3 immediate starters IF the chips fell our way: 1. B.J. Raji, DT, Boston College 2. Michael Johnson, DE, Georgia Tech 3. Pass catching TE (Cook, Ingram) If Raji, Orkapo, and Brown are all off the board I say go with Cushing and target Johnson in the second as I believe he is a stud that the scouts are labeling in an attempt to muddy his stock!

If the Bills are going to utilize a singleback offense, they need to find an athletic H-back or go predominably 3 wide. If they get into the trend of obvious playcalling based on personell, then we will get back into the normal Bills tradion of calling plays and hoping they work instead of gameplanning, dictating to the D, and managing the game.

While the desire for a multi-purpose TE that hat can both in-line block and split the middle of the Cover - Two seam is desired, they are rare and hard to fine as most college teams have gone to spread offenses making these hybrid TE's more easily available. This will make the transition to similar NFL roles less painful. Since the Bills admittedly will phase the fullback out next year besides short yardage situations, they should have kept Royal and drafted an athletic H-back type TE who can split out wide at times and press the seam ala Dallas Clark. Looking at the current roster, if Fine can match Royal in blocking, he could step in and fill the role of the blocking TE and maybe Shouman can fit the H-back role as he has shown to be adept to blocking on the move; that remains to be seen. Having a multi-threat H-back type TE who can be used in motion to block on the move and occasionaly split out wide may give us the versatility we need on offense that may possibly lead to less predictability! In the past we all KNEW that once Parrish stepped on the field it would be a pass play so they would double Lee and take their chances with everyone else. With the FB or 2 TE look it was 90% of the time run and the other 10% was either a deep play to Lee with dumpoff options in the flats. Simple: double Lee with safety help over the top and drop everyone else in the box as we had no threats at TE or FB in the passing game. We have NEVER established an offensive identity; one in which we run at least 80% of our plays out base personnell aside form special situations (3rd and long, short yardage, etc.). Gaining an athletic H-back may lead to this as it could cause matchup problems for the D. What do you do; load the box and stop the run? Then Evans and TO will cause headaches; trying to matchup with them AND a fast H-back will cause nightmares! Do you want a LB covering Ingram (or similar TE in this draft)? Even if they lack the ability to block inline on the running game, they should be able to assist blocking on the move and add more to the running game than a third WR. At times we could go with a 3 WR look by spliiting the H-back out and get matchup advantages against LB's and safeties who lack the ability to cover. And don't forget the talents of Lynch and Fast Freddi in the passing game as besides Lee Freddie has been our next best big play guy in the passing game; if you split both he and the H-back out on early downs watch out! It may force some teams to nickle and dime us which should open up the box. One of these type TE's can be had in the second or third round AFTER the Bills address DE/OG/LB needs. Thoughts?

Like I said stay on topic, get some knowledge of the game, and then come back at me!

Proved what point? Who said that I had reverted to Hardy? And by god when did I ever say that McCargo hadn't underachieve? If that is the point you are trying to make THEN YOU MISSED THE POINT A LONG TIME AGO! All I said was that he MAY be a good player on a different team that is all. And don't you forget unwise one, you called me out as I made a general statement. The next time you want to have an argument don't lose focus of the topic!

OK Mr smart @$$, maybe you are missing the point! I never said that he would be great but you never know as he hasn't really played much whether it be due to injury or coaches decision. But as someone pointed out (you know the reason why this topic got started in the first place!) is that he did show flashes the year before when given the opportunity to play! How do you that the reason he hasn't played has more to do with politics (his grudge with Koller), injuries, than his actual play? That is why I said that he MAY be a good player on a different team that utilizes his strengths PLUS give him PLAYING TIME! Then you come back with some comment acting like he can never be any good; do you have any inside information or watch any game tape? All i know is that the guy has shown flashes when he is in the game but has hardly played. You say he can't beat out Tripplett, Anderson; maybe they were using him in the wrong way; we don't know? Just like the person who wrote this tread pointed out they wanted to see how he would play next to a true stoud DT like Stroud but it never happened; maybe his back injury had something to do with it; YOU and I don't know! There are those who want to throw Hardy under the bus after one season. Maybe he isn't up to speed with reading the D and finding soft spots in the zone but I'll bet you that better coaching staffs would have found a way to simplify the game for him and put him in better positions to make plays. I know for damn sure they'd have a 6'5 WR in on goaline situations a lot more! I know somebody you will point out all the times he mistimed his jump or dropped balls; he didn't make much of the few opportunities that he had but he should have had a lot more and guess what: players can get better you know! It's fans like you who like to bash players but can't take it in return. Like I said earlier: if you don't think scheme or change of scenery can make a difference in a players performance then you don't know the game. If you didn't notice any of the good plays McCargo made at the end of the 2007 season then you don't know the Bills as good as you think you do.