leh-nerd skin-erd

I understand, and I was calling it as I see it as well.

You implied condescendingly that another posters greatest concern was inconvenienced white people. The reality is agitators are taking advantage of unrest, they are roaming the streets like it’s Thunderdome and enablers are writing it off. Everyone loses. **everyone loses except the agitators and if I may be so bold, the people profiting off the death of the poor man this is all about. You see a man walking out of a target with a 40” tv, a woman walking out of a liquor store with bottles of gin...one man’s tragedy is another’s good fortune.

Your language is divisive, your rhetoric non-inclusive. I’m watching the news and they are showing a vandalized and looted TMobile store In Minneapolis. In a separate shot, a couple women are seen loading boxed wine into a car lifted from a looted liquor store. Nothing says “Honor the memory” like a stolen celly and a glass of Franzia.

But, absent fingers in my example, epic fail? ?

Identifying phony money takes a glorified magic marker and fingers to use it. If you lack fingers, you can hold the marker with your teeth. I’ve been on the receiving end of that scenario, mine was a hundo discovered at a bank. Irritating as crap, but a cost of doing business. In the grand scheme of things...you shouldn’t steal from people by passing bad checks or forged $$$, that causes them to call the police, the police come to check things out, and it should go smoothly from there.

If you think the victims of looting, vandalism, shootings and assaults are exclusively white, you’re part of the problem, not the solution. If you think watching what typically represents a lifetime of work, sweat, blood and sacrifice burn to the ground represents a mere “inconvenience”, you’re a fool. If you’re simple enough to not consider the ramifications of widespread looting, violence and destruction on a community, of the jobs lost, buildings abandoned, major retailers deciding it’s not worth the effort to rebuild there...ah, whatever. Keep on with your silliness. People of depth, character and consideration for their fellow man will do the best they can to go around you.

I disagree with your thoughts on this. It's not conspiracy theory, it's fact and its relevant. There is no middle ground to be had here on Russia, no need to pretend there is. I do agree its refreshing to hit you with some thumbs up posts on this issue.

Sounds like a strong woman.

So you're thought process is individuals watch another officer execute individuals and simply remain quiet about it for $60k per year? Would you protect your mother, father or sibling if they murdered another? Your child?

Deek, I think you're on point on a lot of issues. This ain't one of them. If the evidence was clear, the statute obvious, the charge indisputable, we would agree. The plan should not be...charge him with something, anything and we'll sort through it later. See, for example, Casey Anthony.

would you protect a murderous buddy?

Some colloquialisms make so much sense because they are so sensible. "Look before you leap" always comes to mind. The appropriate response is to move appropriately. The reality is that had the officer been arrested on the spot, the AutoZone, Ginny's Craft Emporium and Taco Bell would likely still be smoldering. I cannot tell you how many datelines I've watched where the murdered was known, the facts clear cut, and the announcer says "Three years went by...the case growing cold...when...". The families of those victims are no less engaged, no less emotional, no less desirous of justice. I know rationally that if GF was my brother, I'd want vengence. I also know in a free and civilized society, I'm the last guy that should be on the jury.

Tibsy, the guns are there, to have a conversation on how life might be different if guns were never invented is a waste of time. To be blunt, I'd still prefer that firearms are available for sport/protection even if we could turn back time. Why? See Minneapolis, Minn. There is nothing right, fair or equitable about roving packs of scumbags burning/looting/vandalizing and victimizing, and that has nothing to do with George Floyd. As for police shooting unarmed people, you're oversimplifying the problem. It's rare, exceptionally so, to find an officer firing on a person following the rules of society. It's so rare that we often know the name of the victim and the officer involved. It's asking too much of an individual to perform a job at great risk to him/herself and demand they stop, look, listen, evaluate beyond a reasonable point. I think, on average, law enforcement as a whole does a pretty remarkable job doing just that--being reasonable to a point. Certainly there are exceptions, thankfully most don't end in death or serious injury.

Except....every person in America save the very young and addled know the rules of engagement. The officer approaches not knowing anything about you, what your intent is, what weapons you may have, your tolerance for engagement and or whether or not you will end his/her life in that moment. Obviously, most interactions are benign, and I've seen tons of videos of police officers stopping some dipshyt wannabe attorney looking for a confrontation over tinted windows or a frigging speeding ticket. That's why the established rules work very well. Hands where the officer can see them, don't make any sudden movements, don't approach the officer. I'd add to that know your rights, because that's wise in any situation. Deny the right to search your vehicle, ask about being detained etc etc. The challenge is often that a guy like Michael Brown is elevated to martyr status when it seems obvious his plan was to beat Officer Wilson to death, to secure his firearm and perhaps use it on him. Yet, he a hero to the cause when a reasonable reading of the situation was that it ended exactly the way it could be predicted to end, one of the two I involved was going to be dead. Trayvon Martin....Obama famously said Trayvon could look like his son. Well, these days, he could look like mine as well. The lesson to be learned there isn't about some powerful lesson in racism by a white guy, it's the message every father or mother should impart to their children. You may be intent to give someone a lickin and be on your way, the problem is he may be intent on taking your life. It's a sad story,but it plays out in America all the time. Meanwhile, the flames of racial divisiveness are fanned by our leaders.

Sure they did. Racism is an emotional animal, propensity for violence falls into the same category. In highly charged and often violent confrontations, it seems almost beyond reason that suddenly the rogue officer intent on doing another harm calms down, realizes his camera is on and settles down until the camera is off so he can victimize at will. Most of the alleged acts of violence involve highly charged situations, where there is almost always a precursor. Someone reaches for something in their pocket. Suspicious activity leads to a call for the police and the perp turns and charged the cop. Use of a motor vehicle. The argument is “you should have known the guy running through backyards,acting suspiciously enough that citizens called to report him, was simply reaching for a stick of juicy fruit when ordered to stand down and out hands up”. What’s really being said to law enforcement is “You need to risk your life and take the chance you’ll be ok in virtually every situation”. Rarely in a country of 300,000,000+ million people do you see a GF scenario. It’s a statistical outlier, and frankly, usually plays out like this. Video emerges, but the video is incomplete. We miss what happened before, or lose 3-4 minutes of critical information, information surely relevant to the prosecution of the crime. Meanwhile, cops are assassinated as they respond to the scene of domestic violence calls, traffic stops, parades in major cities. Shot in the head, shot in the back, sons and mothers and daughters and brothers who are active members of vibrant communities. It doesn’t make the news to any great degree, there are no stories about the collective assault mentality, no deep dive into the seething hatred against innocent people just trying to do a job.

Shame though that looters and perpetrators of violence still operate with impunity though. And, food for thought, body cams usage is widespread, and with nearly a million law enforcement officers patrolling the country 24x7, the anticipated surge in documented police brutality simply never materialized. Based on the liberal narrative, we should be seeing thousands of GF type events and hundreds of officers executing unarmed citizens in the street. It never occurred. At the same time, we’ve seen progressive and liberal literally trip over themselves to support law enforcement run amuck when it support their ideals, but that’s a story for another thread. I agree with you on the GF issue though, the video is telling and will aid in the pursuit of justice.

Answering Governor Cuomo’s question “Why does anyone need more than 10 bullets to hunt a deer...” I don’t see any deer burning the AutoZone. The city abdicates power. The law enforcement officers, data entry workers, cleaning staff and everyone else who didn’t participate in the death of George Floyd flee to avoid being burned alive like, geesh, Ambassador Chris Stevens. The vast majority of people in the city not looting, assaulting others, destroying vehicles, setting fires or storming the police station in search of blood...well, with luck they are armed and can take out the first 7 or 8 of the invading horde before heroically going out in a blaze of glory. I’ve been leaning toward personal ownership of a firearm, spoke with a local officer who instructs and think it’s time.

You and @njbuff are killing my setup. ?

I think that footage is very important. The narrative is a compliant man was executed on the street in broad daylight. The unreleased video may actually support that narrative, making a horrible situation that much worse. On the other hand, if Floyd resisted or reacted violently, at least you can process how things went from A to Z in about 3 minutes. Maybe there is something to learn from for future situations beyond what is painfully obvious.

What a pandering, political douchebag. It’s a grief infomercial with a vote for Biden message inserted squarely in the middle. *edit for clarity-I’m talking about Biden being the pandering douchebag, not you Tibsy.

This is an excellent post and spot on. It seems absurd to me that an officer would, in a similar situation lay the white guy on a pillow in the same circumstance just because he was white. Btw, I’m troubled by all this as so many are. I’m with you on being patient, letting the facts come out as to cause of death, toxicology report etc. That said...the way this has been presented is also disturbing. I’ve seen news coverage and footage of Floyd being lead from the car in cuffs, moved to a store front as the reporter suggests “the police report indicated he was resisting, but this tape shows him complying with the officers.”. The next clip shows the officer kneeling on his neck. My question..,what happened in between? How did they go from standing peaceably to on the ground with a knee on the neck? Context matters here. Clearly there is footage that was recorded...where is it?

“How dare you...you are a peeg Pierre!! I never want to see you again!!!” ”Non mon cheri!! Pierre is not a peeg! I said “TUBES! Zeez TUBES are beauteeful!”

I almost met Dempsey at a craft fair. I waited my turn in line but he ended up leaving suddenly. I got close...within half a foot or so.

Yes to the bolded. Btw--I did zing my friend a bit about laws for us v laws for them. I've mentioned him previously, he worked for Spitzer and supported his candidacy, thought he would do a good job as gov. I reminded him how wrong he was about the guy, and how as a non-attoney it seemed to me that a guy hitting up call girls online, on the phone, potentially across state lines, maybe using campaign fund or public dollars, and not paying sales tax for services rendered might well kinda shoulda been charged with...something. He doesn't disagree.

So, my intent is to be an honest broker looking for dialogue. True, I like to have a bit of fun with the discourse, but my fundamental rule is I try really hard not to say something online I wouldn't say to someone in person. I reached out to a friend who is an attorney of some renown in NYS govt. Disclosure, he defines himself as a liberal, he believes COVID is a big &^%$ing deal and thinks Cuomo is doing a good job at the helm of it all. He is not a Trump fan, obviously, keeps his commentary to a respectable level and imo is pretty smart guy. I asked him to share his thoughts on the technical side of the Flynn case, the issues you and I have discussed and where the case stands. I acknowledged taking a kitchen table discussion approach to it all...in other words, yeah, he plead guilty, but with everything else still pending, is he guilty? My friend's take is as you have suggested with respect to 'conviction'. When Flynn plead guilty, he was convicted. Good for you on that--though it seems from your reply above that you felt that I misrepresented what you said and didn't say that. I was pretty sure you did, so I want you to be acknowledged for that. That said, my friend's read on it was that a guilty plea reflects guilty, though a timely plea to withdraw was submitted to have the plea reconsidered. In his opinion, the case is not yet resolved, pending motions etc etc etc. Finally--from his reply, my friend feels that Flynn is guilty, should be guilty, that Judge Sullivan is non-partisan, and believes the 4 us attornies resigned in protest due to the unusual nature of the case. We disagreed on much of that, and chatted a bit more on the multiple set of rules that seem to apply to reg folks v the elite, and agreed to disagree, Good call on conviction (assuming I understood you on that before you said I misrepresented). And..it makes it a dangerous place as well.