Bob in Mich

(Note I have no medical training) If interested, check out the PPP thread 'Know Anyone with a Disease'. It is a medical cannabis thread that I began years ago. My latest postings talk about breathing relief that I have been experiencing. I have no idea if others are experiencing this too or if anyone else is using this 'treatment'. I can tell you though that it works for me and the deeper breaths are wonderful. Obviously, the 'treatment' I have been using involves cannabis products, though does not involve smoking. I am not selling anything. You would need to acquire the medicine on your own. This is currently the last page of that thread. https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/topic/169052-know-anyone-with-a-disease-read-this/page/80/#comments

I realize this would apply only to the low grade masks. Instead of disposable paper masks, if there is a shortage of those, why not manufacture cloth masks that could be sanitized/laundered and then used again? I am unsure these are running out but everything else is in shortage. After using a mask, drop it in a pail of bleach water maybe...until laundry time.

I doubt cannabis can do much to fight the covid-19 pandemic. Cannabinoids seem to nudge the body's own systems to act....generally relatively slowly. This illness seems to overwhelm the respiratory system so quickly, I doubt cannabis would kill it off before it kills off a vulnerable host. However, cannabis may yet have a role in treating symptoms. I caught a respiratory bug in early February (probably from the Sabres game on 2/4). I woke up on the 8th feeling crappy with a very heavy chest. For medical cannabis patients, most often their underlying reason for taking med cannabis does not go away just because they have now added in a cold or the flu. Same for me and when trying to smoke when I got this illness, it felt like the coughing may make my lungs turn inside out....way too irritating. (I am not a medical professional so these opinions are just anecdotal observations.) To address one's underlying issues, you can still get medicinal benefits by ingesting differently, cannabis oil or edibles specifically. THC is a known bronchdilator and it can help with some types of breathing difficulties. If you read the articles above, in addition, there is some indication that cannabis suppresses immune response. If the immune response may be responsible for worsening breathing issues at some point, modulating that response may help. In other processes, endo-cannabinoids are essentially messenger molecules which tamp down 'overactive' responses. I am just speculating here to explain the following. When I was ill I had access to high THC cannabis concentrate as well as cannabis infused coconut oil and used a little of both with my morning coffee. Over the next several hours the positive impact on my chest congestion was so good, I thought I might actually be getting over the illness. I could breathe soooo much better. My cough continued but for a few hours the cough was much more productive at hoarking up lung mucus (sorry for that image). Although the illness should be gone by now, I don't yet feel 100%. I have had lingering congestion. Is that related to immune suppression of cannabis? It may be, I don't know, and that would certainly be a terrible side effect if so. Before writing this up, I wanted to repeat today the cannabis/coffee experiment mentioned above. Right now, the impact is the same, my breathing is again very much improved. If you have access to cannabis concentrates and/or cannabis infused coconut oil, buy some. If not, you may want to consider making your own. These products will allow you to get benefits from cannabis without smoking or vaping. The following link goes into detail on canning the resultant oil but that is unnecessary. The finished product can be kept for years without sealing or refrigeration. https://emilykylenutrition.com/cannabis-coconut-oil/

I know many of you love Leafly so I thought I would pass along a couple of links on cannabis and covid-19, flu, and colds. To keep posters from boredom, I hope to write up some personal thoughts/tips for medical cannabis users soon. Let me preview by saying absolutely cannabis will solve the covid-19 issue as well as all other world problems....and soon. lol https://www.leafly.com/news/health/cannabis-coronavirus-covid-19-facts https://www.leafly.com/news/health/cannabis-cold-flu-experts-discuss

I have been showing posters here the worst possible case. You are correct. The reason though is important. There has been a subset of posters here that for weeks now have been claiming that this is no big deal and that they were not changing their routines. IT IS A BIG DEAL. It is tough convincing an entire pack of fools. Arguing against several of these opinions has perhaps made it seem that I am inciting panic. In my opinion, I have been arguing to take this very seriously and to prepare, as opposed to inciting panic. As far as 'specific enough'? For now, yes. If however, you wish to claim that I am encouraging hoarding and panic, you would need to show me those specific posts. Clear enough?

Uh, no. I have 1500 posts. If you have issues with something I posted, what are the issues? Be specific please. Which posts?

Care to explain that comment?

You make some good points. Not sure how you did that. It is completely out of character for you, eh? lol There are a lot of consequences about to pop up unexpectedly....you are right. The economy is going to be hammered hard and plenty of businesses will fail. Like TPS though, I think forcing the social distancing as has been done in other countries, is the best course. I think simply put and agreeing with you again, we are just at a point where all paths suck. Putting health concerns over economic concerns, while terribly painful, seems right to me. Is it possibly not the proper course? Certainly, but it is the one that has seemed the most effective so far. While there are a whole lot of unknowns, we can see our future by looking at the course the outbreak has taken in other countries and how they have reacted. Looking at China, they seemed to have gotten control with shutdown but there may be a second peak coming after everyone restarts their lives and businesses. We will have to watch closely and hopefully we can learn and apply those lessons to the US outbreak.

Typically your posts are complete BS but I firmly believe this post. Stay safe, comrade.

That is what I thought. I think, with all due respect, you are not properly processing the unfolding facts. Certainly no need to fight over food, water, or TP, but the social restrictions are not being overdone, imo. The idea of flattening the curve is very sensible. In a given locale, if the hospital's capabilities are overrun with more dying patients than they can care for, death rates will far exceed a few percent.

Finding blame is an interesting issue but not really related to why Dems and Repubs, in the NBC poll, have such different expectations for the future of this outbreak. As you have told me before, if you don't like to read someone's posts, that is on you to put them on ignore.

What is the point you are trying to make by displaying these numbers? You aren't still beating the drum for 'no big deal' and 'total overreaction' due to current death numbers, are you? If so, you did something similar a week or so ago....but with much smaller Covid-19 numbers. Do you see that these numbers are growing rapidly? Let me repeat, this outbreak is just beginning here. When we look back on this in a couple of years, I think the final numbers will be tragically high. But, I hope I am wrong...honestly I do. Time will tell.

No, I was replying to the issue of the differences between Dem and Repub expectations on the future path of this outbreak. I think the reason they differ so much is due to the information sources used by each group. Denying reality worked for a long time for Trump and for Fox viewers and they won't turn away from those sources so quickly in spite of the unfolding facts.

Seems like the Dems are looking to the scientists for predictions and the Repubs are still getting their 'information' from Trump and Fox News. We will see how it plays out.

Doesn't look to be much of a project, at least the programming part. Of course some one with expertise would need to come up with the questions to ask and the logical paths to follow for the various possible answers. Maybe they should score each questionnaire as opposed to just test/NoTest. The scoring would allow them to more easily change testing recommendations as more tests become available in the users region? Dammit, again I need a white board that I ain't got.

The worst case projections are if we do not get control of the outbreak. Taking precautions and slowing the group transmission rate will lower the most dire death prediction numbers....hopefully. The logic behind 'flattening the curve' seems to make a lot of sense. If we can keep the need for the most scarce resources (like breathing machines) spread out over time, we can keep more people alive. The eventual number of infections might be the same either way but if the requirement for the ventilators doesn't exceed available machines, those that need them to live will be able to get them. Those calling for extra caution really can never 'win'. They are currently looked at as like Chicken Little, and so foolish. If generally speaking, slowdown measures are not followed, worst case scenarios could play out and lots of folks perish. If folks listen to the warnings and take slowdown measures, less people will die and the Chicken Littles will be criticized later for scaring everyone when, 'look, only x thousands died'.

From what I have read, the trained medical personnel, ICU beds, and the ventilators (respirators) seem to be the limiting resources when hospitals get overwhelmed. If we could do enough national testing to determine which areas are likely to go hot first, shouldn't we try to get additional resources to those areas? I don't know how long the 'extra' help would be needed and so this may not be practical, but couldn't we mobilize military transport planes and temporarily shift resources around from quiet areas to the hot spots? Once an area slows, the resources (people, beds, ventilators) are sanitized and moved to the next hot spot. I am unsure how many machines or volunteers could be manufactured or accumulated as I am sure states or even hospitals would be reluctant to loan out anything if they fear an imminent outbreak in their region. Widespread testing though could help in the determination of impending hot spots. Would something like this be helpful or even doable?

Seems to me that Trump should be setting an example for our citizens and should be following the CDC contact recommendations to the letter. Instead, he seems to think he is demonstrating toughness by ignoring recommendations. He is being self centered and foolish, plain and simple. Anyone in contact with so many VIPs should probably get tested too but he says his WH doctor says he doesn't need to be. If he does catch this virus, he will likely spread it to hundreds with his bravado and carelessness.

Jumping back in 'early' because you realize that the recession is sort of contrived may work well for you. It may be the thinking man's play. In a sense it may very well be right. I wanted to point out however that the 'herd' moves the prices up or down. There have been several times where I was certain I was right and the herd was wrong. Over time, I was even proven right. The herd ran the other way though and my decision, though right, was costly and so, essentially wrong.

Yeah, for years now buying the dip has proven quite profitable. That only works though if the dip is temporary and the market then rises again soon. Doesn't seem that we are yet there. Tough to know when sustained confidence might return. Perhaps when the US daily death rate numbers start falling rather than rising?

I heard a Water Pik will leave one minty fresh

It seems you keep overlooking that in the US we are just getting started with the outbreak. The numbers that are 'no big deal' at the moment, if we lose control of the virus spread, will grow very rapidly in the coming few weeks as different regions break out. Consider the growth/spread projections as very possible, even likely. If localities get hit with more patients in need of ventilators than they have ventilators, deaths in America will spike, just as they have done in other countries hit by sudden spikes. The local area decision makers are in a tough spot. Being responsible for preventable human deaths can weigh pretty heavily on a person. I know in a possible life and death situation and given what we have witnessed in locations that have lost contain, I would err on the side of caution. And as for personal actions, the stockpiling is waaaay overdone by some. Without doubt. On the other hand, I would just remind all the fearless travelers out there that their bravado can result in harm to others that they contact on their trekking. I know it would bother the hell out of me if the Health Dept called and said I was the apparent source of the illness to a whole lot of others.

How does this theory of 'Dems hyping just to hurt the US economy' explain the shut down actions in other countries like Italy and China? Those nations have literally shut down cities of millions trying to get control. Why? Please don't tell me they are all just teaming up to get Donnie. I saw this post in the 'Off the Wall' board in a post entitled something like 'CDC says Don't touch your face...'. Thanks to the OP, Hapless Bills Fan. It has a very informative article. Along with the poster, Hapless Bills Fan, I too would suggest you read it and consider it seriously. Posted 11 hours ago https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-act-today-or-people-will-die-f4d3d9cd99ca This is by far the best article about the coronavirus. It is factual, it is matter of fact, and it is correct. If you read nothing else, read this. It explains the different disease outcomes in Hunan vs rest of China, in Korea vs Hunan, and in Italy. It explains the difference between known and actual cases and the reason for mitigation factors like social distancing and cordons. Read it. ========================================================= In a later post Hapless Bills Fan went on to say......... That article does the best job I've seen of explaining 1. why the case load in Wuhan lagged the reported cases, why the shutdown actually was effective 2. why the death rate is so much lower in S. Korea - it's not because of more testing or more accuracy, it's because of aggressive contact tracing and testing and quarantine, keeping illness below the capacity of hospitals to optimally treat 3. why the death rate in China now is so much lower than it was in Wuhan - for the same reason 4. why the death rate in Italy is so high - the hospitals are overwhelmed and literally making life or death decisions. We will be there too if we don't act, the disease doesn't care about your politics. Its. A. Virus. 5. it gives factual examples of what happened in the 1918 flu in cities that took immediate social distancing measures (St Louis) vs those that did not (Philidelphia) To dismiss that whole article as guesswork because you don't understand what epidemiologists do (hint: it is highly educated guesswork and usually quite accurate) is your choice, but IMHO it is foolish. Very foolish. Please keep in mind that I am a "trained Maniac", not an epidemiologist nor a virologist but a highly-trained scientist who has worked with both. But of course it is still your choice who to believe.

So, their economic closeness to China has led to the outbreak being worse in Italy than in many other countries. I guess that was your point? OK, seems reasonable The point I was making was that the Dems and the US media are not impacting Italian decisions to take radical containment measures. The Dems and the media are not hyping this danger and this story simply to hurt Trump, as is being implied by several posters. The danger is very real and if the outbreak gets out of control here, we will all know people that will die from this virus this year. Doing the math, if half the population (165 million) of the US gets this over the next year or so and even if the death rate falls from 2-3% down to 0.5%, over 800,000 Americans would pass on. Hopefully we can contain it better than that and we can develop some effective treatments, but certainly this corona virus is worth pulling the alarm

How did the Dems and our liberal media get Italy to shut down over this overblown virus story? Is that Soros or the Clinton's? Man, those MF'ers are powerful!!