Bob in Mich

https://apnews.com/f5f6a73b2af546ee97816bb35e82c18d/Report:-Trump-commission-did-not-find-widespread-voter-fraud Trump's own commission could not find all this claimed voter fraud From the article (AP) — The now-disbanded voting integrity commission launched by the Trump administration uncovered no evidence to support claims of widespread voter fraud, according to an analysis of administration documents released Friday.

The DNC data was stolen through a hack by the Russians. They then used wikileaks to release portions to the public at opportune moments to assist Trump's campaign, right? So, it was really stolen private (idk, is the DNC a corp) corp data. It may have revealed internal corruption at the DNC, but I don't think stealing and releasing corp information, even if revealing and interesting, should be sanctioned by us.

Wacka, some more information on terpenes and how they may interact with cannabinoids THC and CBD, among others. https://www.leafly.com/news/science-tech/terpenes-in-the-entourage-effect From the article The interaction between the two main cannabinoids, THC and CBD, is relatively well understood through years of animal and human studies. However, CBD is unlikely to be responsible for the wide array of effects reported for cannabis. So what else could be responsible for the properties that people have attributed to different strains (e.g., uplifting, sedating, creative, or relaxing)? The primary suspect for a strain’s reported effects is terpenes.

I appreciate the reply. Thx. It seems you are saying that you came about your disdain of the Dems honestly. Ok, fair enough. Just one point though, the Dems, like the Repubs, are not an organization with a lone spokesperson. I understand some Dems or lefties have said things that upset you and ruined you. We constantly hear from both sides, that the other side said something just awful. You might want to consider, just like there can be thoughtless statements made by righties, statements made by some on the left should not be attributed to all on the left. Of course you may not like what Pelosi or Schumer says either, but at least they are spokespeople. Both sides, in order to cool the hatred, ought to stop attributing every 'bad' statement made by any member of that group to every member of said group. We should be able to converse without being painted by the stupidest claims by those in our camp

No actual comments or defense of the Trump nepotism? Color me surprised that the Trump supporters are just fine with wrongdoing as long as it is their team. Do you guys ever see legitimacy in holding or pass interference calls against the Bills? Likely just the other team is always cheating and the refs are always picking on us, eh?

Well, on the surface, most would likely say yes. I think we might agree though that in some more complex situations, that is not always the case. It seems there could be circumstances such as personal privacy for instance, where not all truth should necessarily be made public. I am sure too that there are probably other cases where the method used to obtain said truth may not be appropriate. A perfect example is the Trump/Ukraine issue where we just saw Trump trying to push the Biden investigation. On the one hand, he innocently claims he is just trying to investigate corruption and learn the truth, while simultaneously he is attempting an illegal political smear.

Not surprised you are happy with the divisiveness. I appreciate the honesty to admit that. I see that Trump has been under investigation pretty much what was it, Jul/Aug 2016? The difference between us appears to be whether or not he deserved to be investigated or not. If you want to claim that Mueller uncovered absolutely nothing, as Trump repeats, then it will sure appear Don is the victim. If you recall, the Russians and wikileaks were interfering at the time. If you agree that there were several suspicious 2016 campaign contacts and lies about those contacts, he appears much more deserving of the original Russia investigation, and so not really a victim at all. If you think he is the victim of an unjustified Ukraine investigation, then I disagree again. Again though, his supporters claim they have sufficient reason to believe Donny did nothing wrong. They believe, even in the face of Repub Senators allowing the House proved the accusations, everyone is just picking on him for his skin color....orange..

In your opinion, is the division in our country a thing to be celebrated and enjoyed or would you like to see less divisiveness? I ask because you seem to just love the Presidential trolling. If one sees the country's division as a problem, they probably should admire his trolling a lot less. Imo, the President should look to help fix the nation's problems. Imo, the divisiveness is a big and worsening problem. Imo, the president should take the lead and change the tone. Of course if you like the division, it appears that Trump's actions will keep you entertained.

Deek, I realize there is some humor in there but does the nepotism within the Trump family bother you at all? I mean, i know Ivanka is not paid, but are you at all opposed to her flying around with her Dad and being included in events she obviously has no place? She is clearly able to make business contacts, at the very least, with business deals almost a certainty? If she gets a great business deal, might it be a 'gift' to help influence her dad? What happened too with Don and Eric being political players full time these days. Weren't they the ones running Trump business and weren't they supposed to be removed from government so as to prevent government actions being seen as possible conflicts of interest with the Trump organization? What happened to that division? Does that bother you? It appears to be similar to your claims of Biden impropriety.

https://www.leafly.com/news/health/finding-perfect-balance-how-cannabis-affects-homeostasis From the article Each cannabis strain contains a unique concoction of cannabinoids and terpenes that when consumed together, as a whole plant medicine, can deliver a wide range of effects. A patient may experience symptom relief from one or more of their symptoms, but they may also feel sleepy, high, or get the munchies. Cannabis can provide significant relief for those whose conditions have a constellation of symptoms, as may be the case with migraines, fibromyalgia, and irritable bowel syndrome (IBS), but the protocol doesn’t fit seamlessly with current Western medical practice. Physicians are typically trained to prescribe one drug per symptom. This can result in a layering of prescriptions, starting with drugs to manage specific symptoms followed by others to mitigate adverse effects of the first drug. This, too, might be thought of as an artificially managed form of homeostasis.

Amazing! Micro-surgery, needed to work with Don's brain, is really incredible. Hopefully the aliens will then take that stable genius brain back to their home planet for study.

I am almost as afraid of Trump as a lame duck president. Lord knows what favors he will bestow to his family and pals on his way out. The election fears are heightened by Trump's coziness with Bill Barr. Every reasonable Repub now says that this fear of Trump staying is ridiculous. No one will stand for that. It is over the top. What happens if Barr comes out and agrees with Trump when he states that there were irregularities with the election? Just as ridiculous?

We agree there (bolded). Find out what was at the root of the FISA/Dossier/Spying issues, party affiliation is immaterial. I am not aware what specific evidence possibly incriminates those you are pointing at, but if there is more than accusations, make the case, charge them, and take them to trial. Sometimes I think accusers point to something that is suspicious but then have little proof of any actual misdeed. They just keep implying it looks corrupt without actual proof. Keeping the suspicion afloat can be enough if the accusation was done for political purposes. Half the country thinks that Trump just acted corruptly with the Ukraine saga. It seems many Congressional Repubs were willing to overlook Trump's corruption essentially (for hundreds) out of fear of political repercussions. That is why about half the country thinks we are well on our way to being truly ***** already.

Foxx, it is an interesting topic. Thx. Maybe it should be changed. I posed the question 'if you were OK with the ability of the minority to keep from even bringing charges'. If the House process is similar to bringing charges while the Senate holds the trial, should there be a lower bar to formally accuse versus to convict? Again, in question form. I think sometimes people want to fix the 'bad thing' that they perceive happened to them, so they propose a solution that will not allow that particular bad thing to recur. Often I have found that those rapid response solutions may not have thought the possibilities through from every angle. In other words, the fix may address the bad thing that just happened but if not well thought out, can create situations that could be unforeseen.

Thanks for the discussion. I just wanted to be a decent poster and reply to your efforts. Since the issue I was posting on has concluded with Trump's acquittal, I will likely post less. But, we all post for a variety of reasons so we will see what happens. I am sure we will discuss something sometime. Certainly we disagree and I think your reasoning is quite suspect, but I will not go point by point addressing this time. I wanted to say that I appreciate that the insult level has come down. I think that helped the conversation a lot.

Sort of agreeing with my initial point that the worst any coup claimant should make, was that many were duped. Tough to understand how I am ignoring possible Oministration misconduct, when I keep repeating they should look into the alleged FISA abuse and to punish any wrongdoing. That obstruction point of yours has a sort of logical hole too. It seems people want to ignore the possibility that Trump may have assumed that Mueller was investigating things that he did not investigate, or that he would discover some wrongdoing that he did not. He may have thought Mueller was going to discover some, say past tax fraud, when Mueller did not go there. If he wanted to stop the investigation because he feared, say tax fraud charges, he may have wanted to obstruct the investigation even though in the end, Mueller did not investigate that issue. That is an explanation of how obstruction could happen without Trump later being charged with conspiracy. As far as those lying to me for three years.....First, let me repeat, I don't agree that news outlets were lying for three years. The Dems in Congress, the reporters, the people, and Mueller should have been suspicious, and investigating Trumps actions were justified so, no, I am not outraged at them. I guess as I just described, reporters work with traditional sources and were told there was something to it..... there was some smoke there. Recall too that the whole Russia story broke before Trump was inaugurated. Why wouldn't Dem politicians push to impeach him at that time if they believed the assertions? If there was a deep state conspiracy to manufacture evidence, and those allegations are proved in a trial, I would sure be angry with those folks. Many people now hate Trump. I didn't mean to imply they don't hate him. I meant to point out that the continued suspicion of the guy and continued investigations are not simply based on hate. There have been and continue to be valid reasons to investigate his actions.

many were reading and watching and concluded there was plenty enough smoke there to look into. I maintain there was. Include Trump's words and attempted obstruction, and it looked even more likely that he was hiding something Russia related. The negative views of Trump are not simply due to 'orangemanbad' or simply hate or refusal to accept Hillary lost or laziness, as is the refrain here. Suspicion was well warranted. I think it is asking a lot to expect people were going to discard their traditional news and intelligence sources in favor of online douchebags, like DR. In fact I did not have DR on ignore back then as I had yet to realize what an a-hole he would become. I was trying to understand his 'reasoning'. His theories were full of logical leaps and logical errors and he actually began his descent into online stalking and harassment over this issue, when I pointed out the logic problems. To remind, the point I was trying to discuss with Len was that if one totally buys into the deep state /coup theory, the worst they should be allowed to claim is that Trump detractors were duped. Instead there is this narrative he pushes that 'they' have just hate him and wanted to get him all along and for no good reason. To be honest it was something I should have asked him in a PM. I don't really wish to rehash with those I view as less reasonable and highly combative. It was just a hypothetical to pass the time.....yesterday. Today I am less interested in posting. So, reply or not. Up to you

Len, I agree with your take that most of this has been discussed but in the spirit of the last word...... Healthcare - just seems that the Dems and Repubs differ on the availability of healthcare to poor people. Even for those people that cannot afford it, Dems have been aspiring to provide some level of care before the sick/poor drop over on their way to an emergency room. Repubs seem content with the current employer based care. The ACA had several big issues but it appeared the plan was taking a first swipe at covering all....and personally, the pre-existing condition coverage was important to me. Any legislated program of that size is going to need fixes as we see the problems in practice. If I recall, the Repubs have blocked improvement attempts and are well on the way to undoing it. I have no problem with anyone that wants to point out the flaws with the ACA. Philosophically, I disagree with those that are content with the pre-ACA med insurance practices. Funny how you so vehemently opposed my description of what happened with Trump/Russia. As most know, I think there was enough actual smoke there to investigate but that is not my point here. I was trying to lay out your side of what happened and somehow you saw something totally different in my question. For discussion, I was allowing that there was a deep state plot and that they totally framed a saintly Trump. BRB, gotta go puke....lol So, bearing in mind that I am attempting, for discussion purposes, to agree that some deep state FBI/CIA types manufactured the evidence to produce the above mentioned smoke, how can you blame the average person for believing the story the deep state put together? This is the original text from above: Now, this is tougher to follow.....If there was a subset of FBI and/or CIA officials that were behind the supposed 'coup plot' in 2016, they manipulated/manufactured the whole tale that Trump was involved with Russians to get himself elected. They made him look like a possible traitor, is that basically correct? If that is what happened, how can you blame people, posters, politicians, or even media outlets for seeing the publicly available evidence and concluding that he might, in fact, be involved with the Russians. If what we saw on the surface was true, not investigating would be irresponsible. I don't agree that Mueller produced nothing. I don't agree that every bit of Trump-Russia evidence was innocent or manufactured but if that is the story you believe, concluding that everyone that bought the story was hateful or unreasonably out to get Donnie, is not really logical. I won't be hurt if you are talked out on these issues. Reply or not, I will manage.

You don't have enough to reply to and have to butt in here too? lol I guess it wasn't on topic if you want to change the topic to Kavanaugh....again with the Kavanaugh. I will have to find that last discussion. Rape itself was not my point either, just a circumstance where it would be apparent to most that, motivations for witnesses would be 180 degrees from today's Repubs in Senate trial. When I wrote it, we were discussing wanting to pursue more witnesses, like Bolton, versus claiming we shouldn't because the House didn't get his testimony. So, on topic? Yes, spot on my topic, not on the Kavanaugh topic of yours though.

Certainly we are not going to agree . As I said, if you believe what Trump tells you, you are going to come away with a much different impression than if you don't believe the guy or his cabinet. Many of these upbeat statements or assertions or accusations of his are unknowns at this point. Time will tell if what he has been telling us is true. Hopefully one of us will see it more clearly later and we can back slap and mock someone together. You are right, I don't know a lot of the OBAMA lies that pissed you off. If you care to discuss further go ahead. I don't see killing the ACA as a positive goal. Several years back my wife and I fell right into the circumstances that bankrupted many - expensive treatments, pre-existing conditions, followed by job loss. Candidate Trump promised us better, cheaper health care with coverage for pre-existing conditions. His plan today is to kill the ACA...and replace that coverage with? He has stated no real replacement plan but....what, maybe after the next election he will reveal the plan? You have told me how upsetting that surveillance on the Trump campaign by the FBI under Obama was to you. Understood. What you have yet to tell me is, if that was such a widespread spying operation, as is implied by you and Trump both, where are the fruits of the investigations? What all was done with this evidence, specifically? I put FISA 'mistakes' in quotes as they may not be mistakes. I approve of the investigations. Find out what happened. Hold those accountable for misdeeds. Clear? Now, this is tougher to follow.....If there was a subset of FBI and/or CIA officials that were behind the supposed 'coup plot' in 2016, they manipulated/manufactured the whole tale that Trump was involved with Russians to get himself elected. They made him look like a possible traitor, is that basically correct? If that is what happened, how can you blame people, posters, politicians, or even media outlets for seeing the publicly available evidence and concluding that he might, in fact, be involved with the Russians. If what we saw on the surface was true, not investigating would be irresponsible. I don't agree that Mueller produced nothing. I don't agree that every bit of Trump-Russia evidence was innocent or manufactured but if that is the story you believe, concluding that everyone that bought the story was hateful or unreasonably out to get Donnie, is not really logical.

Rob, you are right, that was more of Alex's take that I was recalling. I was wrong. Haven't listened yet to the left wing talking points. Can't help you with those.

On a human level, any empathetic person has to feel bad for any lung cancer victim and their friends and families,imo. It is a horrible disease. I wish him the best possible outcome on his treatment plans. I don't wish pain and suffering on anyone.....well, maybe just one poster here, but aside from that, no other creature. That long list of Rush quotes has to lead one to see that the guy, or at least his persona, certainly had a hateful side. Is he hateful or, like that Stephen Colbert character, was that his act? I never attempted to know him or his persona and heard his show on very few occasions, so I surely don't know. Unexpectedly I don't admire the guy one bit and that opinion didn't come from any of that list of quotes. I don't dislike him for his politics either while disagreeing nearly completely with him. I thought that Rush's treatment of the Sandy Hook tragedy/aftermath was despicable. Without getting into the weeds on the gun issue, how any person could put those parents/families through even more pain in order to .....to what? Stir up controversy, add viewers....make more money?

Agreed. Yeah, something doesn't seem quite right, does it? From the supposed facts about the dangers and death rate, it seems the containment measures being undertaken worldwide, are over the top. Those measures are expensive and disruptive too. Nations don't spend money on this level for no reason. Seems like governments are acting parental and trying not to worry the kids (us).

Alrighty then Good night folks. Out.

Thanks for your advice. Gee I guess I must be the only one with a political take. On this topic my position aligns with the Dem position. Why should I argue positions with which I disagree. That would be silly. Not a waste of my time though as obviously it forced you to see, if not admit, that it is a weak, totally partisan position motivated by a desire to bury truth.