SectionC3

That is obviously the saddest part of the whole thing. We could see 9/11. We can't see this, in significant part because we can't get cameras and reporters into ERs and ICUs (obviously with good reason). This struggle is a lot of different things to a lot of different people, but one thing that might be lost if we don't have a loved one in a hospital is the extent of human suffering and loss that is occurring. I try to make a point to remember that every day when I think of my own problems, and I need to do a better job in that respect.

Now that's not very nice. More behavior like that and you're going to be on the Washed up Psycho list with Deranged Rhino.

Mostly the liberal media. But I also have an affinity for Buffalo, and at least had an affinity for my chosen profession. So that played a little bit of a role, too. Good catch. I think you're on the hoax list, too. Hoax.

I haven't heard the word manifesto in awhile. Not since the Unabomber days. That was a good reference. Fake news. You are on the fake news list, right Foxx? I seem to think so but I can't recall off the top of my head. You and me both. I probably should have been a NYC real estate developer.

Hoax.

Careful or you'll be on it, too. Nobody wants to be on that list. Ugh. He might get one with the Pegulas' cash crunch.

Yeah I know. On a serious point, Food for the Poor is a good group to give to on this issue. I'm a donor.

That's it. I've had it. You're on the "Washed up Psycho" list. Have fun hanging out with Bette Midler. If you change your ways I'll consider taking you off of that list.

Hoax. Change "looked at" to "was" and I'm with you. Inept, undisciplined, unprepared, unfit, and he still won. You make a good point about the quality of the candidate who lost to that.

Could be. That's a fair observation. And probably recognizes better than I have the fact that there was a degree of contempt toward her ("Close the Book on the Clintons" was a hugely effective line) that was not properly accounted for.

By that logic Trump was such a poor candidate that anyone who lost to him must have been historically inept. Not sure I'm there, but I could be convinced. I agree with you to the extent you think Trump is a bum, though. That much we're square on. Good observation!

That is a solid point. She lost to a hideous candidate in Trump. That takes a special degree of ineptitude, you're right about that.

Fake news.

If you're going that route, Hillary did win the nomination. So, by that logic, she can't be the worst person ever to run for president.

I'm getting that impression. Sadly. I'd make a list about that, too, but it's more disgusting than it ever could be funny.

Agreed. I mean, David Duke ran for president, right? She was a crappy candidate, but far from the worst ever to seek the office. Far, far from it.

Hoax. Sad!

Also, are you curious about the new list that you're on? It's a carryover from the other thread.

Hoax. Fake news.

Democrat here. She should have rolled this bozo. And she didn't, largely because her campaign sucked. Bad messaging, and horrible strategy at the end. Tried to spike the football in Arizona instead of going to Great Lakes states. The "basket of deplorables" thing didn't help either; telling people who have legitimate concerns about their blue collar jobs that they're deplorable if they were sympathetic to the guy who at least bothered to talk about those issues was a big, big mistake.

To a point. I read the Mueller report and the gist of it is that Team Trump was too inept to conclude, and that there is a question of fact whether he obstructed justice. At the very least what happened after inauguration, right or wrong, perhaps hopelessly divided the country.

I think you're nuts, but I actually agree with some of this. I use the "Prada and pearls" reference. Working class people can't relate to someone in Prada and pearls, like Hillary and Huma Abedin. They just can't. While Trump cares very little for the working class, he actually paid attention to it in 2016 to a much greater degree than did Hillary. Neither did a good job of articulating why they wanted the presidency (particularly Hillary, whose message of "vote for me because I'm a woman" probably alienated a lot of centrist white males), but Trump at least fumbled around with his goals (manufacturing, stupid wall, "America first"). Personally I think he's a barker of the first order who fueled a stock market with debt load and rank speculation that someone else will have to answer for. I also see him as a superficial, divisive character who cares more for his ego than just about anything else, including our country. He's a hopeless liar, has diminished his office, has treated the constitution as a matter of convenience, and has significantly damaged the character and unity of our nation. But I will give credit where it's due: he nailed the tenor of the electorate in 2016, and his disinformation/misinformation campaign with respect to his COVID response suggests that he's figuring out how to do it again.

My view has been and always will be that Hillary lost 2016 much more than Trump won it. This coming from a union Democrat.

This. My view was that the Dems should have made a play to get into this guy right off the bat. He's a superficial guy driven by ego and insecurity. He also doesn't have much conviction or depth (aside from his love of and for money). Short story, he could have been convinced to be a moderate president. Instead he disregarded his better angels, stuck with the jingoist/nationalist hysteria, and cemented the "walls" between the respective political camps in this country. Opportunity lost, no matter how you cut it. He could have done more for his side, and he could have facilitated more for the other side.

No doubt. But fed $ doesn't go to football stadium. It would go to fill gaps in state budget caused by diversion of monies to COVID response. And feds can take and handle debt more readily than state governments. NYS has balanced budget requirements, so covering the COVID costs will require huge cuts to state and local services unless the feds reimburse the state for its role in the COVID response. Ergo, no or very limited discretionary funds for things like football stadiums.