Einstein

I'm not sure where Andy Reid entered this conversation but Andy has a history of signing bad offensive linemen, so that doesn't surprise me. His terrible o-line is what got Mahomes crushed in the SB a couple years ago and cost him a ring. He also traded a 1st, 3rd and 4th round pick for Orlando Brown who was a total disappointment and they just let him walk after only two seasons. Based on his history, I would guess that him drafting Creed was luck more than skill. He probably should be using PFF more.

I mentioned that article earlier in this very thread. It further proves my point about NFL teams using PFF grades. Otherwise, if teams didn’t use them, players and agents wouldn’t spend tens of thousands of dollars to change them.

What is interesting about that NFL player who said that agents pay PFF to raise grades is, if that if that actually happening, then it shows the power of PFF within NFL front offices. Because these agents/players wouldnt care what the average $12 per month fan thinks about their grade. They care about what the NFL team paying hundreds of thousands of dollars for those grades and data think about the player. The grade and the data to hand in hand. The grade is derived from the data.

The team pays for it all. The data the team gets is actually much more advanced than the data the public gets. but it all result in the same type of scoring and analysis. except for things like formations and bunch sets. PS, PFF is headquarters in Ohio. Not the UK.

Do you know someone who worked at PFF? Because I do. it is you who are confused. There are LOTS of former players or coaches work at PFF. Including Andrew Berry (former NFL player), Bruce Gradkowski (former NFL player), Mike Johnson (former NFL linemen), Steve Palazzolo (former UNH coach), Jeff Dooley (former RI coach), Mike Renner (former college linemen), Eric Eager (former coach at MU), George Chahrouri (former coach at Harvard), Ben Linsey (former college linemen), Anthony Treash (former AZ db), Andrew Erickson (former college WR), etc. There are also multiple levels of analysis. After it passing primary analysts it then goes to mid-tier level to be graded again. And then to a final tier to be graded again and make sure the first 2 levels got it right. The former players and coaches are usually on level 2 and 3. You're probably thinking of data collectors (they are low level grunts). I'm not criticizing you. I'm just having a discussion. If you've taken it personally, don't. You're the one who has told me that the Bills made a decision and they know more, therefore I shouldn't question it. When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Feel free to have the last word. I won't respond. .

No one is saying its the definitive source. It's just another tool. But you want to pretend like the tool is total garbage - except its not. If we limited opinions on a forum to people who knew more than football coaches then there would be 0 threads and 0 posts. Including from you. We are all giving our opinion based on what we see. And sometimes the pro's (who know more) get it wrong. See 2000 to 2017. It's funny. This is EXACTLY the argument you're making about my criticism's on the Bills. They know more and therefore I shouldn't criticism them.

Trusting an organization does not mean you like every decision they make. I trust my wife but I do not agree with every decision she makes. I trust my kids but I do not agree with every decision they make. You say NFL teams use the data and analytics but not the players grades. Where do you think the player grades are derived from!? The data and analytics! You do not trust PFF because you find anecdotal evidence that their grades are wrong. But that's, again, just the opinion of the person writing that. And the interesting part is the person writing those articles watches WAY less film than PFF does. The PFF analysts watch every snap of every game all season long. They are often former coaches, players and scouts. The person judging PFF watches just their team and likely very little ALL-22 tape. That's the funny part to me. You and others criticize the grades of people who watch and know significantly more football than you do. .

The Bills pay far more than $12.99 per month. Last I heard, teams pay PFF somewhere around $100k to PFF for their service. Why do you think that is? So they can burn Pegula’s money and laugh at PFF’s opinion during practice? Again, players can have their opinion but it doesn’t make them right. The teams who employ them, pay PFF. I’m going to trust the 32 NFL teams who pay significant money to PFF for their data over a random player. You and others don’t want to like PFF because they sometimes say unflattering things about the team and players you like. But oddly enough you will read a long article by Joe Buscaglia who has way less experience than the PFF graders who are partly comprised of former NFL players, coaches and scouts. Then there’s Chip Kelly, who like you railed against PFF. That is until he visited their headquarters, saw how they do it, and walked away so impressed that he ended up buying shares of the company. “I think it’s impressive the work they do,” said Kubiak, head coach when the Denver Broncos won the Super Bowl “One of the things we asked (PFF) at the beginning of the year was always look at stacks and bunches. We always feel like stacks and bunches is important to understand how things play out. He is our stacks and bunches guru. We use PFF [Pro Football Focus] to give us a folder of stacks and bunches every week.” – Frank Reich "I don't think there's any question that they do a great job, and I think they're a valuable resource for us." - Kyle Shanahan, San Francisco 49ers head coach “We attributed all three special teams return TDs in 2017 to PFF data.” – FBS Special Teams Coach It would be more like PFF = Bills. Since the Bills pay them for their data.

Wildly enough, several do. https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/lions-darius-slay-believes-the-earth-is-flat-just-like-sammy-watkins-kyrie-irving/amp/

There are football players who say the earth is flat. I’m hardly going to take one random players opinion over the 32 NFL teams (including the Bills) who pay PFF for their service.

I researched him extensively and I don’t know how anyone can say he’s not very good. The Ravens have an award for best linemen of the game. Powers won it 8 times last season. He’s also pretty NASTY and I like that. In college he told a reporter “I love taking a grown mans dream and just crushing it”. We need braulers like that on our team. Speaking of PFF, they show his blocking got BETTER after Lamar got injured and went out.

Interesting post. What were your thoughts on Poyer being out of position at times toward the end of last season and in the playoffs?

I hope you’re right and i’ll be rooting for you to be right.

You see McGovern as a massive upgrade at IOL?

I guess I don’t see how we’ve gotten better? We have lost Edmunds, likely Poyer, Hyde is coming off of a serious injury… where have we gotten better?

The Bills ran for over 100 yards on them in the playoffs last year. including the game-winning first down. I don’t think that was lost on Miami.

if you believe the bills have a Super Bowl roster and are as good as any team in the NFL then I assume you must be on the fire McDermott bandwagon. Because he hasn’t been able to get them to actually harness that power into a Super Bowl appearance. only so long people can say well they made mistakes, without looking at the person who is responsible for getting the team to not make mistakes

So because I can see the Dolphins got better and that’s not good for the Bills, that means I should become a Dolphins fan? Not following the logic.

Thanks! I am.

Our QB’s record against a roster that no longer exists irrelevant. That’s like saying “what is Belichick’s record against the Bills” and being scared of the Patriots next year. Our QB against Tua and their current roster is 0-0. His record against Tua and their roster last year was 1-1.

Their non-legit QB beat us. Not sure if you forgot about that but it happened. They have improved at DC, LB and CB. And there is still more time and draft picks to go. You can downplay Miami all you want but they’re good.

Just saw that Ben Powers signed in Denver for only $12M per year. That sucks so much. He is a great linemen and getting better. Would have loved to have him here.

It gets you an almost win, which means nothing. But then you significantly improve and that “almost” turns it to “actual win”.

Yeah but you were talking about big deal signings. Not small extensions. The bills have not committed significant resources in free agency towed their offensive line in five offseasons. It’s just brutal. Only when you’re talking about whether the bills have committed significant resources towards rebuilding the line - This is not a rebuild the line move. This is a stop-gap move. I would love for them to go after someone like Ben Powers

Then their backup comes in and almost beats us lol.