newcam2012

Policing isn't that simplistic. There's always a gray area sort of speak. The best officers use good judgement, deescalate situations and people, and use discretion well. The officers did none of this. Officers are not robots. Officers make decisions every day on what laws to enforce, how to enforce them, how they interact with suspects, and what level of force if any is appropriate. When you watch the video it's almost impossible to conclude the police officers dealt with the incident professionally, appropriately, and according to training. It was a police failure on many levels despite Hill committing a motor vehicle violation. Yes a fic#ing traffic violation. Hill isn't the first person not to listen to the police. Any comments on the officer grabbing Hill by the neck while he's cuffed and being watched and or restrained by a fellow officer? You gonna try to defend that too.

All of this is true. Obviously, that didn't happen. As a result, you have to analyze to police officers demeanor, verbal skills, judgements, and actions. They failed on almost every level from a law enforcement perspective. This will make a good academy training video on what not to do and how not to act. What people fail to realize is police deal with this kind of behavior and attitude daily. Hill behavior although wrong is very tepid compared to many other suspects the police deal with. It's clear the officers lost their cool and wanted a confrontation. The escalated the incident so they could take care of business. All in the name of officer safety as an out. I'm convinced that no officer involved felt threatened, scared, or intimidated by Hill. No doubt in my mind they were pissed off at him. They found their reason to take action. Of course, it's my opinion.

How can you say the cops did their job? Then in the same breath say they escalated the situation and dragged him out of the car too early. Not to mention the police officer grabbing a standing cuffed Hill around the neck while his partner is restraining him. You might want to reconsider if you think the cops did their job. Or at least qualify it with they did a poor job. Disagree strongly. Analyse the police conduct with an open mind. There's no way any reasonable person that knows policing can conclude the officers were verbally effective, deescalated the situation, used sound judgement, and used appropriate use of force. This was a whiff by the police. 101 policing gets a D grade.

Hill's actions contributed to the whole situation. No way anyone can say otherwise. However, Hill's actions by police standards is not out of the ordinary. They deal with non compliant, rude, and disrespectful people daily. It's what they do. The equally disturbing or perhaps more so is the police behavior, attitude, and actions. Totally unacceptable and very poor policing. Folks, the two can be true. It doesn't have to be an either or here like many want to do.

The point is this: the officers put themselves in a situation where they were justified in physically removing him from the vehicle. Of course so did Hill. I contend the officers were itching and looking for any reason to show Hill who's in charge, who is the boss. They felt disrespected and they wanted some blue justice. Why do I think that? The police had every opportunity to afford the whole situation. When have them the docs they could have simply walked back to the patrol car, complete their, and give citations. Who cares if his window was up or down? Instead, the police officers chose to stay next to the vehicle and engage Hill, demand that the window be down instead of going to their vehicle. They weren't having any kind of de-escalating here. They were aggressive and looking for a reason to act physically. They were going so that disrespectful black man a lesson. Listen and respect the cops or else. Listen to what they told him. It backs up this theory. It gets worse as Hill is cuffed and standing next to an officer. He's lagging to sit down and a second officer grabs Hill around the neck to assist him to sit down Screams at him about surgery on his eyes. The whole incident is very poor policing from the start. The was a simple give the citation and go. Instead, they Miami police officers inappropriately engaged in an unnecessary pissing contest with the piece of crap Hill. Their emotions and muchismo get the best of them. They further escalated the situation which is a complete blunder by any police officer standards.

He wasn't arguing with the police. He was trying to explain himself and the officer wasn't hearing it. Amazes me that so many are defending the police officers conduct, actions, and decisions. It was a failure from the jump.

I'm glad you don't because your thinking is flawed and dangerous. Watch the video. Hill rolled down the window and the two officers were looking into the car yelling at Hill. Then they opened the door and yanked him out. They weren't going to play that game was one of the officers said.

All the officer had to do was proceed to his vehicle once Hill handed him the required docs. Hill even told the officer give me the ticket so I can go. The window rolled up shouldn't have been a safety issue whatsoever. It became an issue because the officer created the safety. He had every opportunity to proceed to his patrol vehicle. This action would have deescalated the situation immediately. The officer was itching for a confrontation. He escalated the situation without a doubt. This was never about officer safety. I firmly believe that. That the ultimate out for the officers which is difficult to combat. IMHO, this was about the officers wielding their authority. There words and actions absolutely support this thesis. Their tactics in approaching the window was anything but tactical. It was two police thugs getting revenge and a disrespectful thug. Not to mention the officer who grabs a cuffed Hill around the neck with being restrained by another officer. Come man. This who incident smells like shi! and that includes the police behavior and actions. I hope you don't act in a similar fashion while in duty. Your safety always sound be your number one priority. IMHO, that's not what happened in the Hill incident.

Lots of assumptions there.

Any comments on the officer who grabs a cuffed Hill by the throat when he is being restrained by a fellow officer? Then he berated him by asking him if he had surgery on his ears. Does that qualify as a great job by the police? I don't know the street and the parking situation. If he's parked illegal or it's a danger to the public the officer had every right to get that vehicle moved or towed.

Step 2 didn't happen because the police officer choose to engage Hill over his window. It's really that simple. The officer had every opportunity to go back to his vehicle and conduct business as usual. The window up at that point could have been viewed as a nothing burger by a reasonable police officer. I could definitely see a police officer walking away from the car and conducting his checks and writing tickets. Not sure why you can't see that as a reasonable option. It would have deescalated the situation as well.

They have every right to be there. It's a public street and they have every right to observe so long as they don't interfere or break the law.

Care to critique the police officers? I mean if we are playing the blame game don't they have to be included too? How bout this? Step one - police requests proper docs like drivers license and registration. Step two - police go to your vehicle do your mandatory checks and write appropriate citations. Step 3 - walk back to Hill's vehicle and give him the citations. How does that sound?

That's to be expected. They are going to protect their star player. Football takes priority over morality in the Dolphin organization. This incident isn't big enough for the Dolphins to jump off the Tyreke train. The other incidents seem far worse. You bet they are going to protect him.

I'd be surprised if anyone took Hill's side. I haven't seen anyone here defending his actions. It's been quite the opposite almost to a fault where the police are getting a pass. I totally get that because you treat poop like poop. The debate is more about the police actions, behavior, judgement, legal issues, laws, etc...That definitely fair okay and open to interpretation.

Handcuffs alone doesn't automatically equate to an arrest. However, you are really missing the boat on the Hill incident. You have to take in the totality of the circumstances. It was absolutely an arrest and Hill said it numerous times. It the reasonable person standard. Hill was reasonable to conclude he was being arrested. Yanked out of his car, aggressively placed on the ground with knee in his back, handcuffed, being told he should have listened, being told it's too late, being told it doesn't matter what he says, and being choked while cuffed. If that doesn't add up to an arrest then I'm fuc#ing lost.

Pretty much spot on here. Hill absolutely was arrested. There's no real debate from a legal perspective. The law is pretty clear here. That was no detainment. The police used there discretion and pretty chose not to person any charges. That in itself speaks volumes. Some went to use the football player status as a reason why he was let go. Maybe maybe not. I can say without a doubt, he wouldn't have been released if he was facing any serious crimes. The whole incident was a police debacle. How people try to justify the police officers incompetence is pretty alarming. The police do have the right to ask and make Hill exit the vehicle. Mimms clearly states this and I was flat out wrong earlier when I said otherwise. Unfortunately, this is "the out" many are using for the police officers. Legally, they are correct. Nevertheless, the police made upteen errors in judgement. They clearly escalated the incident. Again others will point out they legally don't have to deescalate. Another "out" for the police. This concept is absurd. Police are trained to deescalate. It's engrained into a police officers mindset from day one. You are correct that Hill broke no law when he rolled up his window. There's no penal that I know of that states otherwise. Some claim it was an officer safety issue. Another "out" for the officers. While generally true, I don't believe this was the case here. The serious of events leads me to believe the officers were just pissed and looking for any reason to go rogue. That's exactly why they didn't walk away from Hill's vehicle when they received the needed docs. It's exactly why the police officer argued about the window. If course that's my opinion. It's an opinion based on the totality of the circumstances. I find it hard to believe the officer wanted the window down for officer safety. In fact, when Hill slightly rolled down the vehicle the officers never drew there weapons or called out a weapon. It was clear they were pissed off because he wasn't listening. That's the bottomline. They sought to give out some police justice. That is clear as day. Don't listen to me. Listen to what they tell Hill. I mean a second officer choked Hill to the ground while he's cuffed and restrained by another officer. I suppose Hill was a threat there too. Hill could have acted differently and things would have been different. However, the police are trained to deal with all kinds of scenarios. Most of them are hostile, non complaint, aggressive, etc... No way in hell would this type of behavior be condoned in a training exercise. In fact, a person in the academy might very well go home for such action.

Well you should consider yourself lucky for officers using their discretion. According to your account, the police could have arrested you several times and even justifiably killed you. Did I get that right? So let's dig deeper here and connect the above to the Hill incident. Police use discretion on a daily basis. They make choices to arrest or not to arrest. They make choices to use force; including deadly force. In short, police officers have broad powers and often choose not to use them even when justified. They don't arrest everyone on every crime that is committed. Agree? They can be choose not to use use of force even when justified. Agree? You see where I'm going here? Now let's take a look at the Hill incident. Hill gave the officer his license and registration. Why didn't the officer(s) depart Hill's vehicle and go to his patrol car. Run his checks and write the tickets? Hell, Hill wanted that. Is that unreasonable to think this should of or could of happened? Isn't that pretty much standard procedure? Why didn't it happen? I've stated my viewpoints previously; no need to go there. The officers chose to engage in a window fight instead. That's the choice they made! It didn't have to go that way. Even if they are correct legally they could have absolutely avoided what was to come. Agree? You think this is good policing? Sound judgements and use of discretion? Application of the law? What threat do you think the police perceived? Dragging him out of the car over a window that was partially open. Over a traffic violation. Really? Hand cuffing him, grabbing him by the neck. Telling him he should have listened, it's not about what he says but about what the police say, the police are not going to play games, and did he has surgery on his ears. What's the theme of the police officers message? Listen or you will be dealt with. Sound about right? Can you validate the police officers behavior and actions? Do you think it was solid legal police action, use of force, verbal communication, and use of discretion? Policing is much more than enforcing a penal code. It's much more than flexing your power and showing people your authority. It's much more than being aggressive and confrontational. It more than a badge and a gun. It's a myriad of things to consider. It's one of the most dangerous and dangerous jobs. Police should be respected much more than they are. Hill is an example of the garbage law enforcement officers deal with. However, the Miami police officers and their conduct and decisions gave all law enforcement officers a black eye. They failed us.

The cops should have been aware of that. It's a reasonable conclusion. Now that doesn't mean the football player is above the law. However, it could dictate how you interact with the suspect. How profile cases are always subject to a different animal. Instead, the police officers went ghetto on ghetto. Met resistance with resistance. There were some many other appropriate avenues the police should have taken. Should have taken. I bet they wish they had now.

Oh please. A police officer skin has to be thicker than that. That type of resistance is a daily occurrence for law enforcement officers. People act like the police interactions are with choir boys.

How many people do you know get jailed for a traffic infraction? No way would a district attorney ever choose to prosecute Hill based on the officers behavior and actions. That would be career suicide. The police in legal terms effected an arrest on Hill. No way a reasonable person would think that's a detainment. In fact, Hill stated numerous times he was getting arrested.

But not everyone has that mindset. Many have the mindset of F the police. They will resist passively, assertively, and aggressively. Look at how Hill acted. He complied with providing his license and registration. He rolled down his window for this interaction. He told the police officer give me the ticket I'm late. All the while, he's bickering back and forth about the police banging on his window. Then he rolls up the window. Doesn't comply with the officers multiple requests. Then he opens the window slightly and the police officers look into his vehicle and continue their demands. Do you consider Hill's opening up the window as a sign of compliance? Could the officers adequately see in the vehicle? Could they have asked him to roll down the window more? Why did the officer say we aren't playing these games? Is that a mindset statement of an officer fearing for his safety? Or is more of a pissed off officer getting ready to give Hill a lesson on the law? This whole situation went bad quickly and it really they didn't have to. Just my observation. I wasn't there and I can't speak for the officers perception. The police officers definitely kicked up the situation to another notch. I just don't see where the officers safety was in jeopardy. Most criminals don't assault and shoot you after they give you their id. I believe the police could have walked away from Hill and the vehicle once they received his license and registration. There was little reason for the police to hang around his car once the docs were produced. In fact, it's poor police conduct because they are putting themselves in a more dangerous situation. The police wanted a confrontation. Thus, they created one . Motorist very often close their windows once the give the police the required info and the cop walks to his car. Especially on the east Coast in the winter time. Hill didn't violate any laws by rolling up his window. The officer made a conscious choice to engage with Hill in a negative manner. He wasn't going to swallow any of Hill's disrespect. Instead, he was going to do the opposite. He was going to show him some respect. I guess some approve like this avenue of policing. It has it's place but not in this incident. Show his power by demanding his window down. Macho man sort of speak. This was a mistake in judgement. Police interactions have to be better than this. Police interactions should be better than this. Hill contributed to the incident! However, so did the police!!! This was police 101 and they failed miserable.

There's plenty of blame to go around. However, law enforcement officers are always held to a higher standard. That's drilled into law enforcement officers brain from day one. They dropped the ball big time.

I got what you are saying. Police will almost always tell a ticketed motorist than can fight in in a court of law. That's their avenue to file their complaints. However, that's not completely realistic to many people. People will complain to police when they think they have been wronged. He k, they will complain for various reasons like being pissed off, displeasure for police, etc... Pick your reason. In my humble opinion, the best law enforcement officers are the ones who can communicate effectively, gets respect as well as gives respect, deescalates situations effectively, able to make sound judgements under duress, etc... Frankly, I didn't see much of this with regards to the Miami police officers. I disagree totally with the shame angle. Hill has no shame. He's a selfish dbag.

Not sure if you are aware that Hill did finally roll down his window prior to being pulled out of his vehicle. It was only rolled down a little. Was this sufficient or insufficient from a legal standard. Does it do a level of compliance? Could the officer adequately see in the vehicle? Also, I think the words of the own officers are being incriminating. Do these words seem to diminish the officer safety thesis? " We aren't going to play these game." "It's not about you It's about what we say." "You should have listened." Another questionable action is the use of force by the second officer grabbing Hill's neck in order to get him to sit down. Hill was cuffed and being watched and restrained by another officer. Add in the officer in derrogatory terms mentions to Hill did he have surgery on his ears too. Shows a level of anger and aggression.