twoandfourteen

I looked this up back in January and found the post. Here's it is: Fortunately for you, I have an important presentation I need to finish this weekend. So, I was looking for a way to procrastinate and this is the perfect thing to do instead. Who doesn't like a little pro football reference wormhole on a Friday night? Join me, as we delve into the fascinating world of the "Fantastic Fives", QBs who have thrown 5 or more INTs in a game (since 1999). Since 1999, QBs who have thrown 5 INTs in one half: Ty Detmer (DET) had 5 in the 2nd half against the Browns in 2001. Threw 7 INTs that day. Ryan Fitzpatrick (NYJ) had 5 in the 2nd half against the Chiefs in 2016. Had 6 INTs that day. Threw an INT on 5 straight drives, in fact. Nathan Peterman (BUF) had 5 in the 1st half against the Chargers in 2017. How about 4 in a half? Peyton Manning (IND) had 4 in the 1st Quarter against the Chargers in 2007. Threw 2 more that day, 1 on the opening drive of the 3rd Q and 1 more in the 4th. Along with Peyton's 6 INTs that day, the Colts also missed 2 FGs and lost the game 23-21. Troy Aikman (DAL) threw 4 in the 1st half against the Giants in 2000. Had 5 INTs that day. Matt Barkley (CHI) threw 4 in the 2nd half against the Redskins in 2016. Had 5 INTs that day. Drew Bledsoe (NE) had 4 in the 2nd half against the Dolphins in 1999. Had 5 INTs that day. Daunte Culpepper (MIN) threw 4 in the 2nd half against the Bengals in 2005. Just missed the 5 in one half club by 1:06. 5 INTs that day. Brett Favre (GB) threw 4 on 4 straight drives in the 2nd half, also against the Bengals in 2005. Had 5 INTs that day. Josh Freeman (TB) had 4 in the 2nd half against the Panthers in 2009. Had 5 INTs that day. Dan Marino (MIA) had 4 in the 2nd half against the Cowboys in 1999. Had 5 INTs that day. Kyle Orton (CHI) threw 4 in the 1st half against the Bengals in 2005. Had 5 INTs that day. Ben Roethlisberger (PIT) threw 4 in the 2nd half against the Jaguars in 2017. Had 5 INTs that day. Tony Romo (DAL) had 4 in the 2nd half against the Bears in 2012. Had 5 INTs that day. Tony Romo (DAL) checks in again with 4 in the 1st half against the Bills in 2007. Had 5 INTs that day. Honorable Mention: Mark Sanchez (NYJ) threw 3 INTs in the 2nd half against the Bills in 2009. He also threw 1 INT in the 1st and 1 INT in OT. Steve Weatherford also threw an INT in OT on a fake punt attempt. Chris Chandler (STL) threw 3 INTs in each half against the Panthers in 2004. That lesson in symmetry resulted in 6 INTs on the day. The rest of the games can be found here and were mostly 3/2 or 2/3 splits between the two halves. But who cares about those -- It's not like any of them was a rookie throwing 5 INTs in one half in his 1st ever start, am I right? Actually, now that I think about it, I'm fairly certain that Nathan Peterman is the only guy on this list who was playing in his 1st NFL start. At least, since 1999. One more "Fun 5INT Fact" for today: A QB has thrown 5 INTs in a game 225 times in NFL history. Here's the link to the full thread if you're interested:

Great. I'm curious to see who the 20 guys behind him are, but you don't have to waste your time posting that. However, I'm talking about the 40-50 guys playing QB on teams in the NFL heading into the 2018 season. By "better", I'm looking at their overall value -- talent, potential, past performance, etc. I also just realized I forgot about Mahomes in KC. So there's 37 guys who are "better" than Tyrod Taylor in the NFL right now. Edit -- also forgot about Winston in TB, so now it's 38.

I mean, of course there's going to be some disagreement here and there on a couple of the guys. I personally think Brissett is better -- younger with more upside -- but he's not one I'd care enough about to debate. The point of this exercise is to show that you're not going to find 16-20 guys on there that TT is clearly better than to put him in the top 20 or 15 QBs in the NFL. Even if you took the 5 rookies off the list, there's still 31 names -- you would be really hard pressed to argue he's better than 11 of them. However, if your rationale is that "passing yards & passing TDs" are irrelevant to gauging a QB's production (like some of the #TeamTyrod guys around here) then maybe you could get him up into the top 20.

Now, just to clarify for us slow kids in the back of the room... you are saying that "passing yardage" is a "horrible metric" to judge a passing game by. You're right. Maybe we should be using "Goals Against Average" or "Slugging %" to really get a true sense as to how good or bad a team's passing game is. This right here is a big part of why I am so intrigued by the "Great Tyrod Debate". It has caused what I can only assume were once rational people to make -- and then resolutely stand by and argue -- statements such as: "passing yardage is a horrible metric to judge a passing game". By definition, passing yards are the measure of how many yards a team produces throwing the football. Now, as for my "top 30" comment. I used one simple criteria... "Would an NFL GM trade that player for Tyrod Taylor straight up?" So, lets do this one more time: Brady Brees Rogers Ben Rivers Ryan Wilson Wentz Goff Stafford Watson Luck Cousins Smith Garappolo Newton Bortles Dalton Carr Bridgewater Manning McCown Keenum Prescott Mariota Bradford Foles ...and then a few "borderline" guys: Tannehill Trubisky Flacco Brissett ...and then the new rookie class: Mayfield Darnold Allen Rosen Jackson There are 36 names for you right there. Now, granted, you could probably lump TT in at the tail end of that Tannehill-Trubisky group... but my point still stands. There are easily 28-30 guys that are clearly ahead of TT in the NFL right now.

You're not getting any of those 3 for Tyrod straight up in a trade. Also, JMcC & TB have both put up better numbers than TT. TB is by far a more talented passer & QB overall. (JMcC also only played in 13 games last year. He averaged 45 more passing yds/gm than TT.)

The NY Jets have 3 just on their roster.

I'm not denying that this doesn't exist. I'm sure they're out there. But "how many of them are there?" has been my question -- and no one seems to want to answer it.

Literally no one is saying that. In no way, shape, or form is TT the worst ever to play the game. He's just not nearly as good as the media wants to make him out to be and not really in the top 30 at the position currently in the league. Where the pushback comes from is the very real attempt to push a narrative that says "only racists think Tyrod should have been replaced". I resent and take personal offense at this notion that all Bills fans are practically klansmen because we were ok with them moving on from a QB who led the NFL's worst passing offense for 3 years and just happened to be black.

I could have saved you a ton of time. As it turns out.... a QB's yds/gm actually appears to be a pretty good indicator of team success. Who would have guessed that quarterbacks who are able to move the football down the field by throwing it with the goal of scoring points are more likely to win games? Weird, I know. Join me, Hap. Let's go on this little adventure together. Let's look at the top 10 QBs in yds/gm from last season and their W-L records & the bottom 10 QBs in yds/gm and their W-L records: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2017/passing.htm#passing::20 After 8 seconds or so of hard statistical analysis, certain trends started to become apparent. Out of the top 10, only 2 had a losing record. Of the Top 5.... none of them had a losing record. Out of the bottom 10, only 3 QBs had a winning record. Out of the Bottom 5... well, only one of them had a winning record. (Here's a hint: he has a new pronunciation of his name this year.)

Ding! Ding! Ding! There is a reason my profile picture is what it is.

Listen man, it's "Social Justice" Schopp.

Meet the new Tyrod. Same as the old Tyrod. But he didn't turn the ball over.

Name one. I can't think of a "signature" Tyrod play from last season. No clutch throw, no huge run... nothing.

Mayfield throws for a 1st down on 3rd & long. Amazing.

If only Cleveland would design an offense around Taylor's strengths. Maybe they could get him some real weapons, too.

Right. The question is "how many of them are there?" If the answer is "a lot" -- then we need to reconsider a few things. If the answer is "not many" -- then why are we wasting our time on a relatively insignificant & powerless group of individuals?

Actually, yes. Because if there is a significant proportion of Bills fans that think this way, then I don't want to associate myself with this group anymore. You should feel the same way. If it's an insignificant handful of idiots who are mad at the world for their own failures, then it's just an unfortunate reality of a large group of people -- there are always going to be a few problems. If this is the case, then they don't deserve this much (or any) attention. Ignore them. If the overwhelming majority of Bills fans (my guess is 99.999%) don't feel that way about TT, then why accuse an entire region of being closet hood-wearing klansmen?

I don't doubt that. Ignorant a****les exist -- and unfortunately -- will always exist. But what is your best estimate of that "non-zero" percentage? 1% of Bills fans? 10%? 25% 50%?

Virtue signaling for SJW peer-group validation is all you get from the Deadspin crowd. Magary is the king of this nonsense. Even if the racism doesn't really exist, just make it up to show your online friends how 'woke' you are.

Denver tried. Kap refused.

They've been in this "find a QB" mode in the preseason before... and still ran the ball a ton. Granted, those coaching staffs were immensely stupid.

No. There was an actual professional passing offense on display last night -- something we haven't seen in Buffalo since 2002, arguably. I would say that's a win for everyone involved. Haha... why do you think I posted this thread?

Do go on. If you have it all figured out, I'd love to hear your take on it.

Happy to be back, CB!